Large Scale Central

The "Original" Kittom Lumber Company. Part #2

This week I wanted to break up the grays and browns of the winter trees. To do that, I planted cedar trees as second growth forest in logged over areas.

(https://i.imgur.com/vqliLwG.jpg)

I got these trees from China off of eBay. They were priced at $5.67 for 10. I got them delivered in one week and was amazed at the good quality for the cheap price.(http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/images/bigeyes2_125.gif)

I noted in nature that cedar trees around here
appear to grow in clusters. So, I planted them on a little rise in front of the divider opening separating the two halves of the mini layout.

(https://i.imgur.com/7eSvSDc.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/wyUmHcm.jpg)

I think the trees camouflaged the opening fairly well and brought a little color to the Winter scene.(http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/images/icon_smile_approve.gif)

Thanks for looking.Doc Tom(http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/images/icon_smile_big.gif)

Nice touch of color against the dark winter scene. You do great work, Doc.

Dan Hilyer said:

Nice touch of color against the dark winter scene. You do great work, Doc.

Dan. A BIG thanks from the boys in the woods.

Doc Tom

Doc, tell the boys to have a cold one on me(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif).

Look great as usual Tom

However they look real green , I wonder how a dirty water spray, wound look to help tone it down a tad…

Sean McGillicuddy said:

Look great as usual Tom

However they look real green , I wonder how a dirty water spray, wound look to help tone it down a tad…

I agree Sean. I will need to work these newly minted trees over to adjust their colors. Tom(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

I’d think, separate washes of grey, black and brown. Maybe even a little rust. The consistency of color seems to me to be the biggest distraction. However, i’m hardly qualified to discuss any of this with “the Doc”. He’s the “MAN”!

During spare moments I have been able to construct this “backwoods” water tank to slake the thirst of the hard working logging lokies on the mini layout. It is Banta kit that was a lot of fun to build.

[​IMG]

[​IMG]

Thanks for looking. Doc Tom

LOOKING for some “railroad historical advice.”

Here is the backside of the new water tank.

(https://i.imgur.com/6tafprD.jpg)

Note the black pipe that will pump water up into the tank. I was wondering how they did it in 1910 when electricity was pretty young and not likely to be found out in “the backwoods.” So not likely to have an electric water pump.

This logging outfit is so temporary that I do not think they would have drilled a well.

I was thinking the resourceful loggers would drop a hose or some pipe over the 30’ cliffs overlooking the red river and pump up H2O.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZzVwrQV.jpg)

What kind of temporary pumps did they use? Steam powered? Do you have any photos or drawings?

Thanks in advance. Doc Tom

No springs up on a hillside? Run a pipe down to it.

A tank is a serious building, sinking a well isn’t out of line and perhaps a windmill to move the water…

[​IMG]

Hmm looks great …however you could remove the top and have someone swimming in it (girls)

Morning Tom,

If not fed by a spring or creek from up hill as John mentioned then the water had to be pumped. A well was pretty much out of the picture in the logging woods, most likely pumping up hill from a creek or river as you mentioned. This pumping would most likely be done with a “Hit and Miss” gas engine with pump. Some times they would have a section walkers shack nearby so he could operate and service the pump as part of his daily work.

Hit and Miss engines see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hit-and-miss_engine

Layout is looking good

Rick

There are small ponds along old track right of way all over southern Illinois. Some are named for the railroad, some are named for the farm they were built on. Some are just ponds.

.

Like others said, windmills, pumps, cistrens(sp?), deep spots in small streams, springs from a hill side.

.

Cass Scenic Railroad has a great old tender tank buried in the ground gathering the water from a mountain stream. I’m sure somebody can post a picture.

Thanks for the hydrology advice guys!!!

There is a hill on the backdrop of the engine house/water tank scene.

(https://i.imgur.com/LemEPNg.jpg?1)

Sounds like best advice is to run a pipe under the tracks and up to that fine limestone spring up in the hills.

Appreciate all the comments and ideas.

Doc Tom

Oh, I’m in the mood to see what can be found in railroad windmill documentation.

This compact mechanism was mounted on a four-legged wood tower that could be constructed over a well in one day. Railroad companies immediately recognized windmills as an inexpensive means of providing water for steam engines and for attracting settlers to semi-arid regions through which they planned to lay track. In 1860 the Houston Tap and Brazoria Railway purchased the right to manufacture and use James Mitchell’s “Wind Wheel” on its right-of-way from Houston to Wharton. By 1873 the windmill had become an important supplier of water for railways, small towns where there were no public water systems, and small farms. Many of the very early mills were crude, inefficient, homemade contraptions. One of the popular makeshift mills was a wagon wheel with slats nailed around it to catch the wind, mounted on half an axle. The axle was fastened securely to a post erected beside the well. A sucker rod was pinned to the edge of the hub. It was stationary and worked only when the wind blew in the right direction. The windmills used later on the big ranches were the more dependable factory-made windmills.

https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/aow01

Seems there eventually came to be “railroad pattern” windmills,

https://books.google.com/books?id=aAHK-CmMmfIC&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=railroad+windmill+pump&source=bl&ots=WY3Atm7lck&sig=GvYptM4zw30Hn4Jbj4N-VJEThCE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiOlMCUqdTaAhVS-qwKHRglDOcQ6AEIhQEwDQ#v=onepage&q=railroad%20windmill%20pump&f=false

An illustration of a Halladay windmill in use by a railroad station, 1885. Public Domain

Railroads were another important customer. Steam locomotives had to be watered at regular intervals, which was accomplished with a string of tanks and pumps. On the first transcontinental railroad, tanks occurred about every twenty miles. Self-regulating windmills, some of which were also self-oiling, required little to no maintenance and could operate unattended, making them ideal for long stretches between towns. Manufacturers started putting out windmills that had wider bases and could pump greater quantities of water. These came to be called “railroad pattern” windmills. The most common version—and one of the biggest and most powerful—was called the Railroad Eclipse. Eventually, some communities used railroad pattern mills for municipal water supplies.

… (quotes are opposite of order in article) …

Self-governing water pump windmills soon became a staple of the American homestead. They were simple, well-constructed, and dependable, the windmill equivalent of a pair of denim jeans. At first they were mostly wood, but metal varieties became more and more common. Almost every farm had one. Some people, {some logging layouts?} (https://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)unable to afford a professional windmill, fashioned their own using manufactured versions as models. According to an article in the journal Wind Energy, more than one million such windmills had been erected across the United States starting in the mid-19th century.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/windmills-water-pumping-museum-indiana

Well, hey, they were even used in the UK;

American-style windpumps were never as ubiquitous in Britain as they were in North America and in other countries with comparable conditions, such as Australia, Argentina and South Africa. However, they did become a reasonably common sight, particularly in flatter, drier areas. The Royal Agricultural Society of England organised wind engine trials in 1903, and awarded medals to favoured models. Among British firms, Duke & Ockendon (‘Dando’) of Littlehampton (which is still in business as a manufacturer of drilling equipment) offered a range of wind pumps, often on more than usually elaborate steel towers. Some were supplied to British railway companies, including the London & South Western (for example at Gillingham, Dorset, and Bentley, Hampshire) and the London, Brighton & South Coast (for example at Christ’s Hospital and Ford).

https://hfstephens-museum.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=43:wind-and-water&catid=29&Itemid=125

Forrest Scott Wood said:

Oh, I’m in the mood to see what can be found in railroad windmill documentation.

This compact mechanism was mounted on a four-legged wood tower that could be constructed over a well in one day. Railroad companies immediately recognized windmills as an inexpensive means of providing water for steam engines and for attracting settlers to semi-arid regions through which they planned to lay track. In 1860 the Houston Tap and Brazoria Railway purchased the right to manufacture and use James Mitchell’s “Wind Wheel” on its right-of-way from Houston to Wharton. By 1873 the windmill had become an important supplier of water for railways, small towns where there were no public water systems, and small farms. Many of the very early mills were crude, inefficient, homemade contraptions. One of the popular makeshift mills was a wagon wheel with slats nailed around it to catch the wind, mounted on half an axle. The axle was fastened securely to a post erected beside the well. A sucker rod was pinned to the edge of the hub. It was stationary and worked only when the wind blew in the right direction. The windmills used later on the big ranches were the more dependable factory-made windmills.

https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/aow01

Seems there eventually came to be “railroad pattern” windmills,

https://books.google.com/books?id=aAHK-CmMmfIC&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=railroad+windmill+pump&source=bl&ots=WY3Atm7lck&sig=GvYptM4zw30Hn4Jbj4N-VJEThCE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiOlMCUqdTaAhVS-qwKHRglDOcQ6AEIhQEwDQ#v=onepage&q=railroad%20windmill%20pump&f=false

An illustration of a Halladay windmill in use by a railroad station, 1885. Public Domain

Railroads were another important customer. Steam locomotives had to be watered at regular intervals, which was accomplished with a string of tanks and pumps. On the first transcontinental railroad, tanks occurred about every twenty miles. Self-regulating windmills, some of which were also self-oiling, required little to no maintenance and could operate unattended, making them ideal for long stretches between towns. Manufacturers started putting out windmills that had wider bases and could pump greater quantities of water. These came to be called “railroad pattern” windmills. The most common version—and one of the biggest and most powerful—was called the Railroad Eclipse. Eventually, some communities used railroad pattern mills for municipal water supplies.

… (quotes are opposite of order in article) …

Self-governing water pump windmills soon became a staple of the American homestead. They were simple, well-constructed, and dependable, the windmill equivalent of a pair of denim jeans. At first they were mostly wood, but metal varieties became more and more common. Almost every farm had one. Some people, {some logging layouts?} (https://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)unable to afford a professional windmill, fashioned their own using manufactured versions as models. According to an article in the journal Wind Energy, more than one million such windmills had been erected across the United States starting in the mid-19th century.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/windmills-water-pumping-museum-indiana

Well, hey, they were even used in the UK;

American-style windpumps were never as ubiquitous in Britain as they were in North America and in other countries with comparable conditions, such as Australia, Argentina and South Africa. However, they did become a reasonably common sight, particularly in flatter, drier areas. The Royal Agricultural Society of England organised wind engine trials in 1903, and awarded medals to favoured models. Among British firms, Duke & Ockendon (‘Dando’) of Littlehampton (which is still in business as a manufacturer of drilling equipment) offered a range of wind pumps, often on more than usually elaborate steel towers. Some were supplied to British railway companies, including the London & South Western (for example at Gillingham, Dorset, and Bentley, Hampshire) and the London, Brighton & South Coast (for example at Christ’s Hospital and Ford).

https://hfstephens-museum.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=43:wind-and-water&catid=29&Itemid=125

Good bit of research there Forrest. Thank you(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

David Marconi,FOGCH said:

Good bit of research there Forrest. Thank you(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Thanks! It is fun to find out things.

Had a head start in a couple books from University of Minnesota Press about the Minneapolis and St Louis which spoke of the bridges and buildings gang rehabbing some water pumps and such and I think even has pictures of windmills: I didn’t go look to be sure.

And while we’re talking water tanks; they weren’t all skinny and tall, somewhere in one of the books is photo of one which had proportions more like a cake pan.

Okay, now I did go look, on page 170 at town named Belmond (I don’t know which state)

And in other news, the Minneapolis and St Louis went to St Louis like the St Louis - San Francisco went to California.

Forrest Scott Wood said:

David Marconi,FOGCH said:

Good bit of research there Forrest. Thank you(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Thanks! It is fun to find out things.

Had a head start in a couple books from University of Minnesota Press about the Minneapolis and St Louis which spoke of the bridges and buildings gang rehabbing some water pumps and such and I think even has pictures of windmills: I didn’t go look to be sure.

And while we’re talking water tanks; they weren’t all skinny and tall, somewhere in one of the books is photo of one which had proportions more like a cake pan.

Okay, now I did go look, on page 170 at town named Belmond (I don’t know which state)

And in other news, the Minneapolis and St Louis went to St Louis like the St Louis - San Francisco went to California.

WOW, very interesting. I have never seen these photos of windmills and water tanks before. Thanks for sharing. Doc Tom

Got the water…now we need the fire to = STEAM(http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/images/propeller_125.gif).

So the boys worked all day cutting and stacking and loading firewood.

(https://i.imgur.com/GAWGcUH.jpg?2)

(https://i.imgur.com/N5uDqTB.jpg)

Even these little Porter steamers require a lot of care and feeding.(http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/images/shake_125.gif)

(https://i.imgur.com/tpY7Bnd.jpg)

Fortunately, there is a lot of wood around to keep everything moving.(http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/images/icon_smile_approve.gif)

Thanks for looking in. Doc Tom

Shouldn’t you store that wood off the ground, and under some kind of awning? To keep it dry.