Tim Brien said:
We are so accustomed to failed drive units that we fix the items ourselves rather than return for repair.
I don’t think that’s a case of being “so accustomed” to failures, but rather a matter of expediency. Why go to the trouble of shipping off a loco for warranty work if the repair is simple enough to do yourself?
Ray, I don’t see any Aristo Steamers on your layout, or am I mistaken?
I have three, no four Aristo steamers. One is an early Rogers, that seems to get good reviews, two are Mikes, both of which have quartering problems, and loose wheels, and one is a Mallet, with the same problem. Can I fix them, probably, but what galls me is that Lewis continues to deny that there is a problem. Is this bashing, no. Just a statement of the facts as it applies to me.
I also have an early SD 45, which for some reason fried its wiring. Dunno what happened. Another SD 45 is of the latest batch. I have three Dash 9s, which surprises me, as I had no intention of ever owning one, but somehow ended up with three. With the exception of the early SD-45, all of the diseasals seem to be doing well.
I guess this is why they call it a hobby, huh?
One thing is perfectly clear, while ACs diesel blocks are very reliable for the most part, the steam drives had had consistent troubles year after year.
It reminds me of GMC and Chrysler in the late 1970’s & early 80’s, where everything coming off the line was cursed with defects and poor engineering yet you’d never know that from the glossy advertisements and TV spots:
“Volare! Oho-oho-oh-oooh! Volare! Dam thing wont go-ooh-ooh!”
They still haven’t completely shaken off that mantle what, 40 years later? Same for Fiat, they are making some pretty darn good little cars today but all anyone can remember are the hateful little tincans from the 70’s, AC should bear that in mind, people do have long memories when you consistently burn them.
Sometimes I think they should have dropped their defective steam lineup back when it was very clear there were serious problems and retrenched themselves with diesels that could use their already proven drive bricks. How much more successful could they have been today if they had done the SD9, SW switcher or even a Baldwin Shark or F-40 or FP-45 or GP60, man the list just goes on the possibilities using the FA-1, centercab or SD bricks.
Vic Smith said:
One thing is perfectly clear, while ACs diesel blocks are very reliable for the most part, the steam drives had had consistent troubles year after year.
It reminds me of GMC and Chrysler in the late 1970’s & early 80’s, where everything coming off the line was cursed with defects and poor engineering yet you’d never know that from the glossy advertisements and TV spots:
“Volare! Oho-oho-oh-oooh! Volare! Dam thing wont go-ooh-ooh!”
They still haven’t completely shaken off that mantle what, 40 years later? Same for Fiat, they are making some pretty darn good little cars today but all anyone can remember are the hateful little tincans from the 70’s, AC should bear that in mind, people do have long memories when you consistently burn them.
Sometimes I think they should have dropped their defective steam lineup back when it was very clear there were serious problems and retrenched themselves with diesels that could use their already proven drive bricks. How much more successful could they have been today if they had done the SD9, SW switcher or even a Baldwin Shark or F-40 or FP-45 or GP60, man the list just goes on the possibilities using the FA-1, centercab or SD bricks.
Anyone who owned one of those “Final Italian Attempt at Technology” or “Fix It Again, Tony” won’t even ride in one of the new POS FIATscos.
I remember one of the really neat things on Chrysler (Dodge) pickups…for years…they had this cosmetic (styling?) depression in the bonnet…with a 2 or 3 inch wide raised portion across the back edge.
Pouring rain, pop the bonnet at a petrol station to check the oil (silly valve cover gaskets) and all that water pooled in the bonnet recess dumps into the back of the engine…flooding the distributor, creating steam off the exhaust that condensed under the distributor cap, and you spent the next hour trying to dry it out…hoping you didn’t get spark crossfire and break the nose off of the starting motor.
TOC
All I know is that the new Fiat 500’s are alot of fun to drive, the Abarth version is a rocket powered go-kart and is an absolute blast, and so far their reliability has been right up there with the best of them, but like I said, old memories run deep and alot of folks still sneer and snicker at them.
BTW the very same plant in the former Soviet block that produced that loveless hatebox dubbed the worst car in the history of the entire world aka the Yugo, was recently named one of the most technologically advanced car plants in all Europe, Yep home of the Yugo…but I should add that the original factory got bombed to oblivion in the civil war and that Fiat rebuilt it from scratch, replacing all those slovenly proletariat Serbian workers who used hammers to install headlights with state-of-the-art robotic assembly lines every bit as accurate and perfect as the Japanese car makers have. But never mind that, once any American hears any car was made in Serbia will instantly think “Yugo” and you go and hide.
Well I have not seen USAT ever offer to replace cracked axle for free on there diesels and it’s still a problem so let not stay on one manufacture here. At least AC has a 5 year warranty and will replace for free does Roe do that heck no. I’ve paid for every one of my 8 USAT locos to fix the axle problem and it still continues with the replacement ones. So all you Neg AC folks stick that in your pipe and smoke it. Later RJD
Offer them free, perhaps not but I have received several sets of free axles from Charlie, It all depends on how you ask.
None of the manufacturers are immune from problems. I’ve had trouble with every manufacturer I own and never once had a problem that the manufacturer didn’t take care of. This includes Aristo, USAT, Bachmann, Accucraft and Phoenix.
RJD.
Can you offer us any other examples of design faults or quality control problems with USAT locos?
The list for AC is quite extensive.
R.J. DeBerg said:
Well I have not seen USAT ever offer to replace cracked axle for free on there diesels and it’s still a problem so let not stay on one manufacture here. At least AC has a 5 year warranty and will replace for free does Roe do that heck no. I’ve paid for every one of my 8 USAT locos to fix the axle problem and it still continues with the replacement ones. So all you Neg AC folks stick that in your pipe and smoke it. Later RJD
Ah, but they did while still under warranty. Once they fixed the issue created by Sanda Kan’s expert engineers, it went away.
I told folks on this very forum and others, to contact me for information on how to obtain warranty…if memory serves, one did so.
The rest of the folks who ignored it can just buy new axles.
I think I would rather have an axle gear problem that is fixable than a wheel on axle problem that isn’t.
Or a super wide flange issue that isn’t (easily). Or units wired differently from each other.
Spin it back again, RJ. Can’t wait.
TOC
Ray Dunakin said:
A blatant exaggeration. I don’t know what kind of troubles you’ve had with your AC locos, but clearly not every AC loco (or other product) is crap.
I suppose now I’ll be accused of “drinking the Kool-Ade” for pointing out that the fact that some people are happy with their AC stuff.
Hmm…Been a lot of time (decadces?) that it’s been pronounced “Aristo-(insert the word you used)”.
There is a reason.
I don’t know, Ray…have you been at the trough?
Are your lips now stained with the Aid in said trough?
Just asking.
I have no idea if you have been or not. All anyone can do is go by what things appear to be…quality of Arrrrrgggghhhhhhhhhristo, flavour of the Kool Aid…
I don’t think I ever blasted you for “pointing out that the fact that some people are happy with their AC stuff”. Rather, we comment on what folks point out are the issues.
Maybe there is a reason for a 5-year warranty?
Maybe Aristo will finally stop denying there are issues that so many folks have? Like, oh, steamer drivers spinning on tapered axles?
And by the time they get around to eventually fixing them (Navin says one thing, Scott another, Lewis something else), they’ll all be out of warranty anyway, so it doesn’t matter.
TOC
Anyone who owned one of those “Final Italian Attempt at Technology” or “Fix It Again, Tony” won’t even ride in one of the new POS FIATscos.years. McNeely, were you or are you a mechanic? Now we are getting into ethnic comments on this forum?
Not only was, but actually owned one of them POS “cars”, so I can (and will) comment!
I was the guy who had to fix them POS cars when they came into the shop.
I have also been to Naples (and there is a reason for this…) several times. There is (or was) a Fiatsco garage on every other street corner on the main drag…lots full of the blighters all with bonnets raised.
Hundreds of them…thousands of them…I still have nightmares.
When I had my 600, a buddy in the Navy had a Topolino (original 500)…and he told me a story. He said the owners manual (written in Itaglish) said every two freaking weeks to open the bonnet and tighten everything you could reach.
He said he’d been driving on the freeway (slow lane…45 MPH, downhill with a tailwind, being pushed by a Model T Ford) and he heard a loud thump…Rat jumped a bit…everything worked.
Month later, got cold, went to turn the heat on…no heat. Seems the entire heater had fallen out of the car somewhere along the freeway.
We called them Rats. Toplino…Litrle Mouse…but they’re really Naples Wharf Rats.
TOC
The USA trains GG1 had several issues if I remember correctly, granted MOST of the USA train engines are all listed for curves they can’t handle - the GG1 being listed at an 8’ cureve, which will derail BTW. But don’t worry the fix is simple according to Ro - CUT THE PILOT and remove some screws, that will fix it, lol - Design flaw from USA Trains, nah no problem here - Move along…
Although cutting the pilot off might be better as they tend to bottom out and destroy electronics frequently… Design flaw from USA Trains, nah no problem here - Move along…
Then again that GG1 has been listed at that 8’ curve for years with Ro having blinders on about KNOWN ISSUES with it not being able to run as described.
Talk about “nothing to see here move along”
Don’t get me started on that retarded coupler design on the SD 40-
Design flaw from USA Trains, nah no problem here - Move along…
Respectively Yours,
Grape Kool Aid man, lol
Ah, so YOU’RE the guy who wrote that GR review on the GG1. Ah, so.
Glad you did that so everybody who reads the magazine knows.
GG1…let’s see…what class of narrow gauge steam engine was that again?
TOC
ahhh, the memories of the silence, when the “Prince of Darkness” played with my old Austin Healy Sprite; my MG Midget ,; and my favourite …my 64 MGB…
…not only the silence of the motor noise, the so-called heater, but also the lights…at 50MPH, on a lonely stretch of road…without a lovely blond to keep me cheerful and warm…oh yes…I was a bit smaller then, and many pleasant “things” could happen in those small automobiles, with a bit of experimentation and free thought…the girls back in those days seemed to get excited about free love in a sports car…great memories…
Curmudgeon mcneely said:
Ah, so YOU’RE the guy who wrote that GR review on the GG1. Ah, so.
Glad you did that so everybody who reads the magazine knows.GG1…let’s see…what class of narrow gauge steam engine was that again?
TOC
What no retort as to the problems I listed?
Nice response, first line, attack the poster not the issue. BTW havent read Garden Railways in years, what issue did they cover the GG1, was I right or is this not an isolated issue?
second line, who cares about narrow guage, I sure don’t
edit- oh now your picking on Garden Railways mag also? Didn’t you write some scathing reviews before for that magazine, I guess if its your review it’s ok to bash products huh? Bachman reviews anyone, hmm whens the last time you did a review for GR again?? LOL 
To be fair to Lewis, he did concede in February 2009 that there was an issue with the Mikado production run due the production line use of the incorrect grade of Loctite. Apparently, other than one reported case of wheel slippage on the Mallett, no one ‘reported’ an issue with the Mallet production run. Of cause anyone with the ability to read would have noted an entire thread dedicated to Mallet wheel slippage issues on the Aristo forum at the time.
Lewis authorised any purchaser with a wheel problem on the Mallett to email for a postage authority to return the defective loco for repair and evaluation. apparently, no matter how many times people reported wheel issues, no one had returned a loco for warranty work. Thus the problem did not exist!!!
How do I know this, well all documented in personal emails with the man himself.
Now this excerpt from an email sent to Lewis by a very happy Mallett purchaser.
"I removed the wheel in question and cleaned any oil from the tapered shaft and the wheel I put locktite on them and put it back did the same thing again and no movement in the wheel. I feel that the product that you are producing is of top quality and the best value for the money.
there might be small issues and I mean small I hope this might help you out in getting some of these
whiners off your back. C.K." (I have chosen to not reveal his name)
Obviously, for some your new Mallett suddenly locking its drive and derailing may be a ‘small issue’, though I am sure for many it would be a disaster. Notice how some one who comments on a wheel slippage issue is termed a ‘WHINER’. This was and still is typical of the language of the dedicated band of henchmen who dote on every word of the master.
Now back to the issue of the original wheel slippage on the Mikado production run. The company put it down to the incorrect use of the wrong grade of Loctite. We all know this to be untrue. There were so many engineering/machining vagaries in the original Mikado/Mallett wheel contruction/retention that loctie was the unlikely victim. the original design employed a tapered shaft to prevent wheel rotation on the shaft and the use of Loctite only on the axle screw threads to lock the retaining screw to the axle shaft. Suprising that many had wheel slippage even with the retention screw securely locked to the shaft.
The idea was an excellent design but alas, turning an excellent design into a workable design on the assembly line floor was its undoing. Finally, admitting a problem, the company strived to overcome the slippage issue and that is why we got the Consolidation problem with its drive wheel design. They solved one problem only to induce another more severe problem in that the wheel dimensions were such that they were too wide to run successfully on the rails. The back to back measurement plus the overly large wheel flanges complicated matters. The designers only needed to go back to basics and design a workable wheel assembly. It is not rocket science!! They promised replacement wheels but alas, like most of their promises they came to naught. Remember the replacement rubber tyres for the flatcar trailer loads? Years later some tryes were released.
Why rehash the past? Well there is a saying in war in that the victor rewrites history. I certainly am not going to sit idly by while the henchmen rewrite Aristo’s history ignoring the sins of their past. What suprises me is that even with their blemished past they still continue to make bloopers such as the supposedly ‘new’ 0-4-0 production. How many times can one simply ignore the calamity that continues to unfold with each new production run. But then in the eyes of the henchmen I am just a WHINER. I distinctly remember ten years ago when I commented on the manufacturer’s forum as regards the toy like nature of the engineering design (or lack thereof) of the track supplied by Aristo. I called largescale an ‘engineering’ scale and not a toy trainset scale. I was hounded down by the kool-aiders who wanted me off the forum for daring to criticise an Aristo product. Of cause with a lot of behind the scenes work I did achieve a reliable operating system using Aristo stainless rail and it was Lewis himself who came to me requesting help with the frog design for the new production wide-radius switches.
Speaking of the GG!..it always made me wonder, who would bother purchasing one of them, to just use as a shelf princess…
Anyone that seemed to run it, never had any overhead, and that loco looked weird running along with it’s pantographs reaching for the sky…but then…I liked the GG!, as a model…I managed to travel South from Canada just to see that classic locomotive. I still see one; derelict, in Syracuse…no overhead…rusting away…then there is the one in Harrisburg…stuffed and mounted, but rather protected…thankfully…and the one in the Railway Museum of PA…
Why in hell after one manufacturer produced one; another still thinks there is a market for another, is beyond me…they don’t even have LGB producing overhead for them…that I know of…
Of course it seems painful to see those giant -9’s running roundy-roundy with six cars behind them…or even the long strings of cars…where the front of the train almost touches the tail end…
Oh…sorry…no insult meant…those people that find pleasure in that part of the hobby, do purchase lots of product, and keep the hobby alive…at least they used to…but it seems even they aren’t buying…so…now it is dying…
May it rest in peace, and all toy GG1’s find homes where the shelf will preserve them for future generations…
With a good bit of humour meant…
I remain…Fred Mills…
That 1 in Cuse looked so much better in Pensy scheme, that Amtrash scheme is hideous!
Dear Mr. Alan Lott:
"
John, you have some very mixed messages here. Your initial post and thread title refers to the NEW Aristo 0-4-0 not all steam locos for kitbashing. A lot of the information you wanted you got with the link, from MLS, posted by Shawn Viggiano. In that thread R J de Berg gave a very balanced view of his findings and what he did to correct what he did not like. The thread was soon obfuscated by people talking about the OLD 0-4-0 and other things. Even the most recent reply to you refers to the OLD version.
I think you can take it that Tony and I have finished our comments to each other: we have “met” before but still remain amicable. But then I tthink we are of the same ancestry.
You say I took offense to “something”. Careful reading would show that I and others alike were compared to nazis. As a Canadien that may not bother you: it did me."
John would not knowingly compare you to a Nazi.
This is a toy train forum, keep things in perspective.
Yes, Canadians are more than fully aware of Hitler Germany. Many of the German death camp survivors moved to Toronto, Ontario ( John’s area of residence ) following the War.
Here in Ottawa, a personal friend of mine now long deceast was a Jewish death camp survivor. He never spoke of the War.
Who do you think liberated Holland from the German Nazis ? My late Father was one of the thousands of Canadian Infantry solders who fault house to house killing off Nazis.
Holland is still as grateful today as they day Holland was liberated by Canadians.
Have you heard of the JUNO Beach Canadian successful landing on the D Day Invasion of Europe?
Have you heard of the Dieppe failed landing where Canadian soldiers were either mowed down by German machine gun fire or taken prisioner?
Canadians suffered greatly during the Second World War fighting not only in Germany but throughout Europe. The Italian Campaign was especially grizzly.
As for modern day Germany, at least the German Gov’t does pay ongoing reparations to the surviving victims of their Nazi death camps.
All grim memories.
This is a model train forum to have fun.
Let’s move on and have fun day dreaming about toy trains and rightfully complaining about toy train defects.
Things could be worse. At least we are not living during the years of 1935 to 1945.
Norman