I feel a thread lock on the horizon.
Mark Dash said:
Curmudgeon mcneely said:
Ah, so YOU’RE the guy who wrote that GR review on the GG1. Ah, so.
Glad you did that so everybody who reads the magazine knows.GG1…let’s see…what class of narrow gauge steam engine was that again?
TOCWhat no retort as to the problems I listed?
Nice response, first line, attack the poster not the issue. BTW havent read Garden Railways in years, what issue did they cover the GG1, was I right or is this not an isolated issue?
second line, who cares about narrow guage, I sure don’t
edit- oh now your picking on Garden Railways mag also? Didn’t you write some scathing reviews before for that magazine, I guess if its your review it’s ok to bash products huh? Bachman reviews anyone, hmm whens the last time you did a review for GR again?? LOL
Isn’t that the acceptable process here, starting with the RBB and now the KAD?
Seems to work for them, so I ordered the book from Amazon.com, and it worked!
Hey, I’m an equal opportunity picker!
I believe you, since I never owned any GG1 class narrow gauge steam locomotives, so I can’t comment.
May be the first I’d heard of the pilot issue…hence the comment on a review.
But, we know we can’t be truthful in reviews, don’t we?
Maybe make sure you tighten your siderods…
Been a while on the reviews. Once again, you tell the truth, you get somebody who wants to “help” and calls are made.
TOC
Oh…frog design…throwbar design/plastic…switch guardrails…I hope you aren’t suggesting you had anything to do with “Improvements” to the wide radius switches…Tim…I’d go and hide before admitting that…but what do I know…!!..I gather you were just trying, like a lot of us were, to improve quality, and promote a good product… I wonder if we were voices crying in the wilderness…but we can say we tried…
With a bit of respect to the Polks…father and son…
It is NOT easy to try to produce anything, while dealing with the Chinese companies. Especially in the last 10 years…Lewis, also had some “Advisors” on the home front, that were “Toy Trainers” in their mentality…well meaning, but not noted for anything involving gauge, or standards…Hence the cry from the herd…“We don’t need no friggan Standards”…if there are no standards, how will wheels stay on the track…dhuuuu…never thought of that…
Oh well…all this goes to prove that we all are human, and prone to failure…the whole World is showing us that…
Lewis is a proud man, and he probably was trying to do good, making a living, and providing toys for all of us big children…let him rest in retirement, and meanwhile, watch out for the next “Mistake” we are about to make.
Let’s move along…the stories have been told…some Fiats, and MG’s are still running…even the odd Ford Mustang ll…I owned one of them too…
Fred,
as requested, I provided a working sample that was used to show just how good the switch could be if done right. I made several suggestions as regards imrpoving things like guardrails, recessing point rails into adjacent railheads plus a guard over the throwbar to minimise grit intrusion. I even made and supplied an example brass switch throwbar cover. Alas, only the frog improvements were deemed as usable.
The original designer of the wide-radius switch was a commercial designer of ‘h.o.’ switches for a generic toytrain company. I feel that he dumbed down his basic ‘h.o.’ design to comply with client requirements. Basically a one size fits all product.
I see that a lot of participants on this thread have the Official Book in front of them.
I used it to answer one.
Page 463, under the chapter heading “How to get a thread locked you don’t like” states that when you have run out of supportive arguments for your cause, start bringing in other manufacturers, even if the thread is not about those manufacturers.
Page 479, paragraph three, states that if that fails, to take umbrage at some comment someone MIGHT have said, beating the drum, carrying on, until the site owner or moderator decides said thread needs to be locked.
The Book goes on in great detail with examples shown.
Page 482 then states that if that doesn’t work, to sacrifice yourself for the Fatherland…ooops…for the “cause”, by actually calling someone names.
There is a moron who, on another forum, seems to have imbibed in too much Schnapps and put for with a suicide run and got himself thrown out.
Page 490 paragraph six shows examples of how far you can go in this vein until you fall into self immolation.
Make sure you have your book out when posting, so you can get it right…and remember…
“Wait until next week!”
TOC
Fred,
further to my earlier reply, one thing that I will praise Aristo for is their second iteration of the stainless rail sectional track. Other than the initially troubleprone switches, the range of track has provided me with endless hours of enjoyment. I will mention that the first release stainless rail was little short of rubbish. To their credit, they invested over one hundred thousand dollars designing a new extrusion tool to manufacture the second release stainless rail, producing a blemish free railhead. Their quest to achieve a better designed rail product is admirable. Not all that they have produced can be criticised (fortunately).
Thank you, Tim…the original throwbars, with the un-needed extra sprung point rail were a fast failure, with the springs soon rusting away…next…free replacement throwbars…or was it $1 each plus postage…but the replacements were NOT in anyway UV protected and soon cracked or became brittle… The original idea, while well meaning, was to let the roundy-roundy guys have sprung switches, that they could run through without throwing…Lewis, in fairness was trying to accomodate the toytrain hobby…give him credit…please…
The so-called Frog Problem; as much as it might have had a lot to do with early deep flanges on toy train type wheels…again give the toy train part of the hobby credit…was more of a gauge/back-to-back spacing problem…the original brass guardrails were not spaced properly with the running rails, and with the varying back-to-back spacing of the wheels, caused much of the derailment and jumping problems on the WR switches. Most of the jumping came from the flanges hitting the point of the frog…if anyone got down and dirty to observe first hand what was happening, between wheels and rail at the switch.
Proof that this was the major problem came when a fellow here, decided that he might have a cure…Gord made sure that a truck had all wheels set for the ARISTO wheel gauge (Which is on with NMRA standards), and replaced the original brass guardrail with one set to the same Aristo gauge standards for check gauge…problem solved, and he didn’t even touch the frog.
The frog in itself is a disaster…all one has to do is view the rails through the frog, and see the meandering line of the rails through the frog…but with the simple modifications to wheel gauge, and guardrail spacing, improvements can be seen…later "improvements to the WR switches, saw the brass guardrails replaced with cast to the ties plastic guardrails, which proved to be way out of gauge to the stock rails…of course the stock rails should not be counted on to be in gauge either, but that’s another story. The cast on ones had to be cut off or shimed to get good spacing…the replacement proved, in our experience to be the best way…now we always upgrade the switches, even new ones, before putting them in sevice. Others have had good experiences with the shims.
Back to the throwbars…Tim; you can try to protect the throwbars all you want from the ballast, or other crud along the track, but if there is a small grain of sand in the point rails, the switch will not properly throw. you can use the very good LGB switch machines…the air operated ones, or choke cables…even my barrel bolt throws, but if there is anything in the space between the point rails and the stock rails…the point rails will not properly throw…case closed…the throw bars were crap from day one…even the replacements were not uv protected. If the split didn’t happen at the screw connecting one of the point rails, then the end of the throwbar split disconnecting any throw machine…if you want to know why I know this…after how many years of experience, I’ve replaced so many that I lost count…
Gord now replaces them with brass strip, properly drilled and placed with loctite on the screws. (No good for track power)
Oh yes…loctite all screws or you will have point rails coming loose…for sure…USTrains #6 switches are prone to this too…Charlie makes goofs too…!!
I won’t go on to the Aristo #6 switches, other than to suggest that the switches usually fail to come very close the the Aristo track gauge, and usually need adjustments to be dependable. Their throwbars are the same crap as the WR switches…
Am I bashing Aristo…no…not at all…I suggest that persons un-named who advised Lewis behind the curtains, where part of the group that so-often yelled on other web pages, that"We Don’t Need No Friggin Standards"…and the people in China just put out what in hell they liked, unless someone could afford to have a QUALITY ASSURANCE person on site 24 hours a day…
How many of the general public in this hobby ever check the back-to-back spacing of their rolling stock wheels…forget the locomotives…they have earned poor grades on this thread already. The only Aristo wheels I’ve seen that generally are in gauge, are the ones on the simulated roller bearing trucks…I hope to be proven wrong…replacement market wheels are usually better…B’mann is terrible…oh…have we bashed B’mann lately…they have crap too…
This could go on for ever…but, Aristo is not…repeat…not the only manufacturer we should hold responsible for poor standards…we are responsible too as consumers, so hell bent to buy the latest and bestus on the block…and failing to understand the basic needs for clear-cut standards, that will allow wheels to run on rails, without frustration…the COLLECTOR comunity of the hobby is just as involved…just because they don’t run them, or in some cases never put them on the track…they purchse them, and take no interest in standards, besides wanting as pristine models as possible…They helped the manufacturers to get away with the crap we have to put up with…and that’s not bashing…it’s just fact…
So…bash me all you want…I accept that I may have got a few things a bit wrong…but what I’ve thrown out here is basicly the way it is…
I hope others can reply with positive ways to improve the products we play with, and…please, lay off the people that have made some mistakes…we all have…and will continue to…
Dave…drop in and give some hints on how to improve track work…
You know as well as I do, that running without the frustration of derailments is most important…operator error is something we have little control over, but track and wheels is another story…jump in Dave…
We might make this a constructive thread yet…!!
It has been asked of me, off thread…"why in hell do you purchase Aristo switches, if they are so bad… Because they priced out the least expensive of the lot…even if we had to upgrade them…and We weren’t about to start building switches by hand…we wanted to operate…not spend our lives building switches…and they have proved relatively maintenance free after rebuilding…(Over 20 years)
Great Question…and a reasonable one…even here in Canada…
By shopping around, and making honest contacts, even taking the time to have stuff shipped to Ogdensburg Ny, to save costs…
I have, over the years, found that being in Canada, doesn’t mean that my costs are that much increased over the American prices.
The trick is to make contacts…get to know people…get to know dealers…no…not just on the web…in person…
Some of my best experiences were meeting people in Chicago in 1999, at the only GR convention I ever attended…some are great friends to this day…the trip was worth every penny, just for the friendships.
Then…the first ECLSTS in “Joisey”…egads…we travelled by Amtrak out of Montreal…best trip possible…ride a train to a train show…and return…GREAT…again we made contacts, and more TRUE long lasting friendships.
Next, of course were many ECLSTS’s in York…, along with the Syracuse Train Show each November… Just going to the shows to buy, buy, buy, is a fools madness…you have to take the time to meet and enjoy the great people at the shows…the behind the scenes parties…the “Drag & Brags”…yes we enjoy a bheer or three, but that doesn’t mean you have to DRINK to enjoy…I remember a few people that refused to attend a party because it was held in a bar…egads…they missed meeting great people…they could have had free soft drinks, tea, coffe, or even milk…the missed out…too bad, they seemed like nice people…at least I thought so…just to meet the great modellers we contact with on LSC, is worth getting together at the LSC Drag & Brag, at York…you learn so much… face to face…
Another point…don’t just depend on the internet…pick up the TELEPHONE…(Remember that) and talk with the dealer in person…forget EBAY, unless you have mastered the stupidity, and really know, first, what you want, and second, what you are getting…third…that the price is better than from a guy you met in York…or what is actualy being charged on the “Off EBAY market”
No…customs charges have never been a major problem…taxes either…prices were helped often by attending the shows, but by having stuff mailed to Ogdensburg, the whole transaction became fair…Having a contact in Ogdensburg, sure helps, but that comes with making friendly contacts with people…being a loner is fine, but you pay the price, and the loners usually are the bitchers and complainers… I know one that frequents this web page…
Always, amungst our great bunch of model railroaders, we share in our quests to obtain what we want, at the most reasonable prices…we share in our good fortune…that’s part of our fellowship, and care for each other.
Fred, you really are a sweet guy…
Fred,
Like you said, I think the part I enjoy the most about York is hanging out with and seeing friends I only get to see once a year. I am new to this forum, have been on the Arist Forum for a little while but have been into G scale since 1984 when I saw my first LGB set in a toy shop in the mall.
Last year was my first time to the Drag and Brag, and I commend you all for doing it every year. I got there late because my kids wanted to go swimming.
I have met tons of great people in this hobby, and this year as I have done for the last two years I invite anyone and everyone to stop by our layout and have a chat or run a train.
The one thing I could not stand when I went to see a layout is when the operators would not talk to anyone but there friends and when you asked a question it was like you were bothering them. This is one thing I love about the club that I am in, everyone is willing to talk and share with people that walk up to the layout.
I also think very highly of Ric Golding and his time saver layout. He is a great guy and takes the time to get kids involved. I witnessed this first hand with my son, Ric had no clue who I was at the time.
These are the people who promote the hobby and get the next generation interested and involved.
Nico
Fred I can appreciate usings Aristo as the most affordable. Thats what I also did on the first Borracho RR. But man oh man they just didn’t work out. Bachmann LGB and yes even Aristo would stall buck and derail on a whim. The final straw was when an LGB Porter derailed and rolled 3’ to the ground.
That was it. It didn’t matter how much $ or how long it took, those Aristos were going bye-bye. Over the next two years I swapped them out with LGBs …never regretted it. 10 years on still work fine. If it works for you guys thats great. But I had niether the time or patience to fix something AC should have already taken care of.
Victor! How can you say that?
Expert modelers looked at their stuff and said it was “just right”!
Granted, we never could get any names of those expert modelers out of Polk, but they must exist, because he said so, right?
I recall Kevin Strong telling me about a visit by the Head Polk top a local hobby shop when Kevin was younger than he is now.
Borrowed some curves from the hobby shop, set up a loop outdoors on tables for live steam…and the steamer fell between the rails.
When pointed out to the Head Polk, he shrugged his shoulders and walked away.
Even then…
Who is the only manufacturer in any model railroad scale to make a track and wheel gauge that matches none of their track nor wheels?
Curmudgeon mcneely said:
Victor! How can you say that?
Expert modelers looked at their stuff and said it was “just right”!
Granted, we never could get any names of those expert modelers out of Polk, but they must exist, because he said so, right?
I recall Kevin Strong telling me about a visit by the Head Polk top a local hobby shop when Kevin was younger than he is now.
Borrowed some curves from the hobby shop, set up a loop outdoors on tables for live steam…and the steamer fell between the rails.
When pointed out to the Head Polk, he shrugged his shoulders and walked away.
Even then…Who is the only manufacturer in any model railroad scale to make a track and wheel gauge that matches none of their track nor wheels?
(http://dansideas.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/beat-a-dead-horse.jpg)?w=635&h=480
Mark; you could have at least filled in the name and date on the certificate. After all you seem to be the one presenting it…
Please use pen and ink, and a nice writing style, and please spell the person’s name correctly…!!
Fight facts with a phony award certificate?
Wow, I’m really convinced now… gotta run and get a gallon of Kool Aid.
Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
Fight facts with a phony award certificate?
Wow, I’m really convinced now… gotta run and get a gallon of Kool Aid.
Greg
The award doesn’t negate the truth of information presented only the obscene frequency by the presenter. Especially because the propagandist that insist on beating this dead horse is NOT a consumer of Aristocraft items (as he self stated)
Greg keep brewing your Haterade because people don’t agree with you and that Aristo was a benefit to the 1/29 community.
Your twisting of words might fool a very small amount of people, but it won’t fool me and people who can think for themselves.
Just like your other accusations, I did not say they were not a benefit, I have many of their products.
The statements presented are facts and all you can do in response is call names, no logic or facts to rebut just your name calling.
The facts are that just 2 weeks ago Aristo did this huge response to all the rumors, cloaked as an interview that all the rumors of their demise were untrue.
Now they reveal they are going under, and even remove that propaganda from their site.
They have clearly admitted the lie… but you cannot admit it.
Do you keep friends that lie to you? I surely don’t.
Greg
This back and forth bickering is getting old. Why don’t you BOTH shut up already?
have some more kool aide, what are you reading this thread for if you don’t like it?
This thread is a discussion, and you are free to not read it, go elsewhere, but you are NOT free to try to censor it.
Greg
You guys should lay off the Kool Aid as it’s LOADED with sugar and could be the reason for some of the rambling…Try MIO instead it has no sugar or calories not to mention it’s much better for your figure…http://www.makeitmio.com/mio-original
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