The Nürnberg situation

[VicSmith]

The Lone Railroader said:
Sehr geehrter Herr ,

ich bedanke mich sehr für Ihre E-Mail in Bezug auf das Unternehmen “Ernst Paul Lehmann Patentwerk”, welches ein Unternehmen mit einer langen Tradition ist und derzeit unter unglücklichen Entwicklungen zu leiden hat.

Ich möchte Ihnen versichern, dass wir bereits daran arbeiten ein Lösung zu finden, welche für alle Parteien, die involviert sind, zufriedenstellend sein wird und es ermöglicht die Produktion und den Firmennamen zu sichern.

Wir schätzen Ihr Interesse für dieses Unternehmen sehr und verbleiben,

mit freundlichen Grüßen

Dr. Ulrich Schürenkrämer

Deutsche Bank AG
Global Banking - German Corporates
Große Gallusstraße 10-14, 60311 Frankfurt
Tel.: +49(69)910-30065 Fax: +49(69)910-85865
[email protected]

---

Deutsche Bank Aktiengesellschaft mit Sitz in Frankfurt am Main
HRB Nr. 30 000 · Amtsgericht Frankfurt am Main
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Clemens Börsig
Vorstand: Josef Ackermann (Vorsitzender),
Hugo Bänziger, Tessen von Heydebreck, Anthony Di Iorio, Hermann-Josef Lamberti
Umsatzsteuer ID Nr.: DE114103379
Deutsche Bank Gruppe im Internet: http://www.deutsche-bank.de

Dammit dont post these unless your going to post a translation as well.
I’m getting tired of these one sided discussions, it BS, if you can post the german text please post an english version as well or at least synopsis of the text

[the_kollector (Jack Barton)]

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
"So it goes" Kurt Vonnegut

Wikipedia: In 2005, (Kurt) Vonnegut was interviewed by David Nason for The Australian. During the course of the interview Vonnegut was asked his opinion of modern terrorists, to which he replied "I regard them as very brave people." When pressed further Vonnegut also said that "They [suicide bombers] are dying for their own self-respect. It's a terrible thing to deprive someone of their self-respect. It's [like] your culture is nothing, your race is nothing, you're nothing ... It is sweet and noble — sweet and honourable I guess it is — to die for what you believe in."

[Hans-Joerg_Mueller]

Jack Barton said:

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
"So it goes" Kurt Vonnegut

Wikipedia: In 2005, (Kurt) Vonnegut was interviewed by David Nason for The Australian. During the course of the interview Vonnegut was asked his opinion of modern terrorists, to which he replied "I regard them as very brave people." When pressed further Vonnegut also said that "They [suicide bombers] are dying for their own self-respect. It's a terrible thing to deprive someone of their self-respect. It's [like] your culture is nothing, your race is nothing, you're nothing ... It is sweet and noble — sweet and honourable I guess it is — to die for what you believe in."

Jack ?

And what is the connection with “So it goes” ???

Just one of the usual diversions, is it??

[Ray_Dunakin]

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Dr. Steffen Goede ist the same attorney who was appointed as the insolvency trustee in the EPL Patentwerk oHG insolvency.

So the insolvency trustee is bankrupt himself?

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
To the untrained eye (mine!) it looks like he missed a few essentials in that matter or how else would one explain the insufficient financial support that Schöntag garnered??

Indeed!

[Squeeky (Warren Mumpower)]

Not quite, Ray. It’s Mr. Schontag that has had to file for insolvency. Dr. Goede, the insolvency trustee, is the trustee for both LGB AND Mr. Schontag.

[Hans-Joerg_Mueller]

Warren Mumpower said:
Not quite, Ray. It's Mr. Schontag that has had to file for insolvency. Dr. Goede, the insolvency trustee, is the trustee for both LGB [b]AND[/b] Mr. Schontag.

Not quite Warren,

Dr. Goede is the trustee for another company with a similar scenario to the EPL saga.

A different trustee has been named for Schöntag’s EPL GmbH.

[TonyWalsham]

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Dr. Goede is the trustee for another company with a similar scenario to the EPL saga.

A different trustee has been named for EPL GmbH.

Does that mean the trustee for Schöntag’s insolvency will look into exactly why Schöntag went broke as well?

As in;
1). What did Schöntag think he was purchasing when he bought the remains of LGB?

2). Who were Schöntag’s partners that “hung him out to dry”?

[Hans-Joerg_Mueller]

TonyWalsham said:

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Dr. Goede is the trustee for another company with a similar scenario to the EPL saga.

A different trustee has been named for EPL GmbH.

Does that mean the trustee for Schöntag’s insolvency will look into exactly why Schöntag went broke as well?

As in;
1). What did Schöntag think he was purchasing when he bought the remains of LGB?

2). Who were Schöntag’s partners that “hung him out to dry”?

Tony,

I don’t know.

However it is possible: if a certain journalist from the Nürnberger Nachrichten starts asking certain questions which may or may not be relevant to the proceedings that the trustee will say: “OK this looks a bit questionable, what is going on here?”

Of course that is, as always, just my opinion and a scenario that would have some merit. You never can tell!

BTW How does one send a Brown Envelope by email ??? :lol: One doesn’t, one sends a FAX!

[TonyWalsham]

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
BTW How does one send a Brown Envelope by email ??? ;) :lol: One doesn't, one sends a FAX!

Oh you mean one of those old fashioned ways of corresponding that only the actual recipient sees, and not the whole on line world. Which can and does happen with E mails. ;)

[freddy (Fred Mills)]

…I get the feeling that one day we will get the true picture of what is going on :

 ....as the song goes......."What does "Della wear, boys".........What is under the clothes in Della-wear......!!!!

[chris_vernell]

Fred Mills said:
..."What does "Della wear, boys".........What is under the clothes in Della-wear......!!!!

Now really, Fred, is that a suitable subject for this family forum?

[Curmudgeon (Curmudgeon mcneely)]

better than Rode Island…(purposeful spelling).

[Wendell_Hanks]

Is one of the key questions whether or not a “buyer” of LGB relys on a purchase of LGB also is ownership of LGB of America?
OR
What the buyer thinks or does not think is not of concern with the courts. Instead, am I accurate that what DOES concern the courts is whether LGB of America was actually sold to the principle owners of LGB of Germany and therefore the court has an interest in what are the actual assets of LGB. Translation: Do the assets of LGB of Germany include LGB of America? Perhaps vice-versa?

Close?

Wendell

[Hans-Joerg_Mueller]

Wendell Hanks said:
Is one of the key questions whether or not a "buyer" of LGB relys on a purchase of LGB also is ownership of LGB of America? OR What the buyer thinks or does not think is not of concern with the courts. Instead, am I accurate that what DOES concern the courts is whether LGB of America was actually sold to the principle owners of LGB of Germany and therefore the court has an interest in what are the actual assets of LGB. Translation: Do the assets of LGB of Germany include LGB of America? Perhaps vice-versa?

Close?

Wendell

Wendell,

Hmmmmmmmm … that is quite possible. The old “Buyer beware” like in most situations.

But as mentioned before: There must be “value” in that insolvency mass, or Kingsbridge Capital/Märklin (KC/M) would not still be bidding. That the “Intro/LGBoA” offer had to be and was stocked up to match the KC/M offer is also interesting.
And the bid has yet to be awarded.

[the_kollector (Jack Barton)]

Wendell,

I’ll apologize in advance, but I couldn’t find a coherent question in your post. There is only one court involved to date, the Insolvency Court. Don’t you think if there were any other court challenges out there, Mr. Mueller would gleefully let everyone know?

The Trustee of the Insolvency Court (and the Banks) are entertaining and negotiating a bid in which G-45/LGBoA is a partner. Do you feel that these folks would consider a bid from a entity that they considered to be an asset, rather than an independent business?

Jack

[Hans-Joerg_Mueller]

Jack Barton said:
Wendell,

I’ll apologize in advance, but I couldn’t find a coherent question in your post. There is only one court involved to date, the Insolvency Court. Don’t you think if there were any other court challenges out there, Mr. Mueller would gleefully let everyone know?

The Trustee of the Insolvency Court (and the Banks) are entertaining and negotiating a bid in which G-45/LGBoA is a partner. Do you feel that these folks would consider a bid from a entity that they considered to be an asset, rather than an independent business?

Jack

Jack,

Hmmmm how interesting. Do you mean to imply that Wendell should go back to university and learn how to formulate/pose a coherent question?

Isn’t that the same Trustee who supposedly very thoroughly examined the credentials of bidder Hermann Schöntag, and his financial backers, then awarded him the bid back in Dec 2006??

What are the chances that the banks did a much more thorough examination of the details on the second go around?

BTW from what I have observed here in Canada, to win a bid for amounts as required in the EPL Patentwerk case, one would need to present an irrevocable letter of credit for the bid amount. Matter of fact it’s similar at the country auctions, too. It’s money on the table or no goods delivered. OTOH, at the country auctions, one gets to examine the goods up close i.e. if one is bidding for an antique piece of wood furniture, one gets to determine if there are woodworms. It all depends on the buyer, some treasure those woodworms, others don’t! Most people prefer solid wood.

[the_kollector (Jack Barton)]

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Isn't that the same Trustee who supposedly very thoroughly examined the credentials of bidder Hermann Schöntag, and his financial backers, then awarded him the bid back in Dec 2006??

What are the chances that the banks did a much more thorough examination of the details on the second go around?

Mr Mueller,

I think you are trying to obfuscate the difference between a bidding “entity” and the “ability to pay”? Schöntag was an “entity” without the “ability to pay”. Wöhrl/INTRO-G-45/LGBoA is an “entity” which apparently has the “ability to pay”. Wasn’t it my point that an asset could not be an “entity”? Apparently since all parties, including the banks, are treating G-45/LGBoA as an entity, ergo it must not be an asset?

[Hans-Joerg_Mueller]

Jack Barton said:

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Isn’t that the same Trustee who supposedly very thoroughly examined the credentials of bidder Hermann Schöntag, and his financial backers, then awarded him the bid back in Dec 2006?? What are the chances that the banks did a much more thorough examination of the details on the second go around?

Mr Mueller, I think you are trying to obfuscate the difference between a bidding “entity” and the “ability to pay”? Schöntag was an “entity” without the “ability to pay”. Wöhrl/INTRO-G-45/LGBoA is an “entity” which apparently has the “ability to pay”. Wasn’t it my point that an asset could not be an “entity”? Apparently since all parties, including the banks, are treating G-45/LGBoA as an entity, ergo it must not be an asset?

Jack, Is it LGBoA who is bidding or is it G45 who is bidding? Obviously G45 and LGBoA are two completely different entities! Is it possible that the “LGBoA” moniker is used for convenience’s/clarity’s sake (mostly by the press) since that is a better known quantity than G45? You missed the essence of my remark regarding the Trustee. As far as I know - yes, again it is what I can garner from the relevant sites on the Internet - it is the trustee’s duty to ensure that any bidder has bona fide credentials, precisely the point why this is usually transacted with a irrevocable letter of credit. (That I know from my banking connections. ) BTW do you think I should have asked my banking relatives to forward some info to the German banks, to lend some weight??

[the_kollector (Jack Barton)]

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
You missed the essence of my remark regarding the Trustee. As far as I know - yes, again it is what I can garner from the relevant sites on the Internet - it is the trustee's duty to ensure that any bidder has bona fide credentials, precisely the point why this is usually transacted with a irrevocable letter of credit.

I didn't miss your remark, it simply had no relevance to my post or the point.

[Hans-Joerg_Mueller]

Jack Barton said:

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
You missed the essence of my remark regarding the Trustee. As far as I know - yes, again it is what I can garner from the relevant sites on the Internet - it is the trustee’s duty to ensure that any bidder has bona fide credentials, precisely the point why this is usually transacted with a irrevocable letter of credit.

I didn’t miss your remark, it simply had no relevance to my post or the point.

really…