Possibly sabotage?
Terble.
tac
This really was a sad event. One of the links in the original post had a very high resolution photo. In that picture you could clearly see that the roadbed, just before the bridge, under several ties had given way. Impossible to tell if that was the cause, or a result of the track twisting as the train fell from the bridge. From looking at the locomotive trucks on the bridge it does appear that the loco derailed, fell off the bridge and took the train with it.
EDIT: I went looking for the picture, and not surprised to find it gone. It had much more detail than probably should have been made public. Looking at the other pictures that are available now, it does not look like the cars followed the engine off the bridge, but tipped and slid down the embankment.
New allegations are that they were traveling too fast. I think everyone should jut wait for an official determination.
There was a news report yesterday I read online from the AP that a safety inspector falsified inspection reports last week becasue the batteries were dead on the engine so they couldnt test it out on the track, I dont know what bearing it has on the actual cause this might have but it sure doesn’t sound good.
According to FoxNews online, the State of South Carolina has ordered all miniature trains in the state to be shut-down immediately until the cause is found.
The UK story is just a little “over the top”.
The sabotage quote is a bit irresponsible. I’ve seen a real locomotive derail at walking speed.
Here are the photos from the local news. In the 3rd photo you can see some ties out of alignment.
http://www.wyff4.com/slideshow/news/27249838/detail.html
I don’t know where the UK “twisted rail” photo is from…
Yes, amusement trains are shut down and an inspector is fired. Hung out to dry by the train operator, Spartanburg County.
Seems to me who ever is responsible for the dead battery on the train should be fired too! Come on, they don’t have a battery charger or jumper cables?
The inspector’s here and we can’t start the train? Sounds more like somebody fed the inspector a line of bull 
Ralph
Latest from the locals has the train engineer admitting to excessive speed.
This also says the inspector resigned.
Ralph
http://www.goupstate.com/article/20110322/articles/110329937?p=1&tc=pg
What gets me… I don’t see any indications that the train was derailed before it hit the bridge… no flange marks in the ties, no ballast disrupted. Its as if the engine hit the center of the bridge and the engine just rolled over. I can’t believe speed had much to do with it because a train will most likely derail due to speed in a curve, where the energies are trying to roll the train off the rail.
Lets get RJ in this discussion… he’d be able to pick out details the rest of us wouldn’t recognize.
Just found about this via http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110323/ap_on_re_us/us_children_s_ride_crashes/print
Sad, sad, sad.
Is the guy who was driving at risk to jump off a bridge? That is a concern.
What’s with this bridge that looks like a freaking roller coaster? (took out the http:// so it wouldn’t hotlink) i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/03/20/article-1368091-0B426ECD00000578-243_634x637.jpg cross referenced with this
(www.wlos.com/shared/newsroom/top_stories/videos//images/spax11_D4ynH.jpg)
and picture http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/photo-taken-Saturday-March-19-2011-rescue-workers-attend-injured/photo//110321/480/urn_publicid_ap_org18bacea915914bbaa246cbb5fbd19d1b//s:/ap/20110323/ap_on_re_us/us_children_s_ride_crashes;_ylt=AtglIoKBkCV.M20ZaRP2iI5H2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTE5MjBlcGc5BHBvcwMxBHNlYwN5bl9yX3RvcF9waG90bwRzbGsDaW50aGlzcGhvdG90 and this one (took out the http:// so it wouldn’t hotlink)media.pressherald.com/ap/Childrens_Ride_Crashes_338934875.jpg and this one (took out the http:// so it wouldn’t hotlink)media.thestate.com/smedia/2011/03/19/17/spartanburg.embedded.prod_affiliate.74.jpg and this comment: “For what it is worth, as one who has ridden the train with my kids and whose mother lives across the street from the park. The whole ride is flat and level with no declines or inclines. The picture that appears to show an incline in the track is a distortion. Picture number one is accurate as well as the second to last picture taken from opposite ends of the track. Both are obviously flat where the tracks cross the creek. The incorrect information in this sad article makes me wonder if the reporter even bothered to ask questions of someone who has first hand knowledge of the event or the park. That leads to the next question. Can we trust reporters and the media at all? Only rarely do I read something in the paper or online I know about personally such as Cleveland Park. The errors are gross and obvious as stated by others in the comments but what about events in Japan or Libya. Just how accurate and true are the news stories we are getting? - bbvmck, spartanburg sc, 22/3/2011 10:44”
A few questions and semi-educated guesses.
First the questions: 1. Why is there guard rails/fencing on the flat portions, but not on the high fill & bridge, or is that just in the drawing? The insurance co here in PA made us put railings AND walkways the full length of our trestle, and widen the fill on both sides so there was at least 3 feet beyond the edge of the ties.
2. Is there a lot of erosion at/near that abutment, or is it not as bad as it appears?
3. Was there a governor on the thing? If not, why not?-- Ours is geared for about 10mph max AND has an engine governor that is adjustable (but not easily) to prevent folks from trying to push it. My dad built it that way.
4. Are there not safety chains on the trucks? Why not?
Now the guesses: 1. a dip in the rail could cause the loco to climb then ride the top of the rail for a distance if he was going as fast as folks claim.
2. If everybody’s weight was outside the centerline to that side (leaning or purposely rocking the cars) it doesn’t take that much to tip a 12-15" gauge car if you really work at it… especially if the track or roadbed is in poor repair.
3. My daughter was actually run over (ok, by one truck, but she still has a nice scar on her leg) by a park train during a derailment when she was 3. The cause?-------- Some punk put a 1" dia stick across the inside rail on a curve. Of course his daddy said, “MY son would NEVER…!!!” And was really, really mad because he was asked (told) to leave. Point is, something like that (stick, stone, shoe) might not show up as ‘sabotage’, even though it pretty much is. – Aaaaaaaand, if your kid did it, and you found out, would you have the guts to come forward now?
Mik said:Dunno, never had kids. But either way he'd probably not see another Christmas gift with his name on the tag for as long as I lived.
Aaaaaaaand, if your kid did it, and you found out, would you have the guts to come forward now?
http://www.wyff4.com/slideshow/r/27249838/detail.html look at the ties behind the last car in pic 3. Either something caught on them and pulled HARD or that’s some really crappy trackwork.
I see it. And it could be so may things - that way to begin with or caught by cars twisted over by ones ahead departing the bridge track. Given that other ties in overhead shots appear well spaced and aligned; and the damaged ties appear to be astern of an observation car, I’d armchair investigator conclude the latter hypothesis.
Excessive speed and operator error was the cause at the TinyTown derailment in Colorado last year. Of course, that railroad does have some pretty good grades on it.
Robert
Forrest Scott Wood said:I've been following this event closely (my "day job" deals with similar issues) and the photo in question has been distorted (not sure what from - possibly poor photography, possibly deliberate in the name of sensationalism...)
What's with this bridge that looks like a freaking roller coaster? "
Take another look at the photo - study the ambulance above the bridge. Both the roof-line, as well as the painted orange “stripes” on the side of the vehicle all exhibit the same slight “curve/dip” that the bridge shows on the left-hand side of the photo.
That is an interesting observation Josh. I never put it past the press to obfuscate the facts of a story.
I got to thinking about park train derailments.
There were two others I knew of (Louisville Zoo and the Old Indiana Fun Park - this one had one or two fatalities with its crash in the 1990s) and then the mention of the TinyTown one in this thread which I did not know about. It sounds as if speed and operator error was the findings in all of these three…and possibly the outcome in this recent crash.
My questions are, how often do these derailments/crashes occurr, and how often is operator error found to be the cause?
And the next one, where do the statistics of these indcidents fall with other amusment ride crashes/fatalties? I have noticed that (at least on the news) there have been a lot more amusement ride crashes/injuries/fatalities than I remember hearing about in previous years. Some simple rescues (riders stuck on ride even this week) or worse (double foot amputation in KY a couple years back).
In conclusion, is this a recent problem, or one that is just getting press now?
garrett- the 24 hour news cycle means you hear about a lot of stuff you never would have in the past. They have to fill the space. Add to that the huge lawsuit payouts which also attracts readers/viewers…
Remember that annoying '80s song “Dirty Laundry”? (Don Henley mebbe?)
Now for an Engineer’s comment! Looking at the pictures in TAC’s post (1st one), I find the bent bridge beams to be very interesting! Also the track with a nice little bend in it, ans note that the fence post or rope hanging off the fireman is very straight? If the operator made a lite run before loading up I think he would have noted that there some problems!
Paul
Perhaps the (stated above) increase in amusement railway accidents is down to more of them operating .
I am rather saddened by the above comments giving pointers to what happened----yet you slag off the press for inventing stories .
Don’t forget , everyone is innocent until proven guilty…and if it comes to a trial , with unproven comments being bandied around , how can a fair trial ensue ? Pre-judging the issue from the comfort of a PC and looking at two dimensional pictures is not going to get at the truth-----it is said above that the press are distorting pictures , then the same pictures are used to claim causes . Make your minds up , you can’t have it both ways .
A little boy died , needlessly and tragically . Let us not lose sight of that in the rush to condemn .
Mike , rather disgusted