Large Scale Central

Signs...and weathering

Modeling
#1

Not the good kind of weathering either.

I’ve been a proponent of the Papilio self-adhesive vinyl for some time, but it looks like this is the time to quit advocating them.

The advantage is that I can make some very nice signs and print them out on my ink-jet printer.

The disadvantage is that they just don’t last. :frowning:

I put this set of buildings out in 2008.

And here’s what the signs look like in 2013:

The black “lasted”, but the colored sign did not.

The same is true for my J.Radder 5&10 cent store.

It looked pretty good just last year, when I put it outside.

Today, not so much:

I had sprayed Krylon clear over all the signs to protect them, but it doesn’t seem to have helped.

With the assistance of Del Tapporo, from G-Scale Graphics, I have now re-done those signs in vinyl.

I sprayed the backgrounds with a Krylon color, applied the signs, then did an over spray with Krylon clear.

I expect these to last a LOT longer. And, I will no longer champion printing my own signs - they just don’t last.

#2

I quit using colors and just use black. Course some of them look pretty neat faded, but I have a few that need to be replaced.

#3

I found the colors fade quickly on my decals made using a color laser printer.

Black lasted longer than some of the decals. The black was still nice and dark but the decals were flaking off.

I also used clear UV.

Ralph

#4

Gee guys ya know real signs have to be touched up too…

#5

You got me wondering how the sticky back vinyl that I use on my Cricut machine would work? I can buy red, white, blue, black, or gold (yellowish). Then either put on the letters and protective coat them, or apply the whole thing, remove the cut out letters, and you have a stencil.

Insert same burning smell as when Rooster was thinking.

#6

Bart Salmons said:

Gee guys ya know real signs have to be touched up too…

Bart,

I agree, but “real” signs don’t need to be replaced every year!

The real point I was trying to make was that the printed vinyl ones don’t hold up when done in color. The cut vinyl seems to do very well.

Now, this one is white vinyl letters from G Scale Graphics, on a painted black background. It was put out in 2007.

(http://jbrr.com/assets/images/IMG_117302.jpg)

…and this is how it looks today. Not much different!

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/thejoat/Structures/IMG_0882.JPG)

This is the colored inkjet printed vinyl, put out in 2008.

(http://www.jbrr.com/Pics/Structures/SalmonsProduce/P1020554.JPG)

Today…it’s not looking very good.

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/thejoat/Structures/IMG_0883.JPG)

#7

Lou Luczu said:

You got me wondering how the sticky back vinyl that I use on my Cricut machine would work? I can buy red, white, blue, black, or gold (yellowish). Then either put on the letters and protective coat them, or apply the whole thing, remove the cut out letters, and you have a stencil.

Insert same burning smell as when Rooster was thinking.

Lou,

I’d be very interested in your results. How thick is the vinyl? I like the idea of a stencil, and I might try that next - as that is also an option from G-Scale Graphics.

I’m not sure I would make enough signs to justify the cost of the Cricut machine, but I do look at it occasionally. It sounds neat. What have you used yours for?

#8

I used it for all the lettering on my “Toonerville Trolley”, white lettering on just about everything.

I made 2 different “blue coal” hoppers and used it for “anthracite” and DL&W, lettered a whole gondola for the Raritan River Railroad.

Package says it’s 3 mil thick. I picked up my Cricut a couple of years ago at Michaels or A.C. Moore on sale for $99. My wife has borrowed it for her scrapbooking. It’s the only thing I have that I can do white lettering. I can get down to almost 1/4", but not quite. Can also be used for long colored straight lines. I see it can do some shapes. You cannot get too small if font has a serif.

I spent I think $25 to get “Sure Cuts Lot 2” - a software program that lets me use my RR Roman font (and others). I think it was money well spent.

Sorry: I paid $57.95 for the software, but I still think it was worth it because I can hook the Cricut to my computer.

#9

Thanks for all the photos Bruce. Your buildings look nice again, and this nicely documents the value of cut vinyl lettering. I have a sign with the name of my railroad hanging on the back fence. It has been out there 24/7 since 2004. The vinyl lettering is still as good as new, but the background paint is pretty well faded. The vinyl I use is rated for 5 to 7 years. But when used on rolling stock, that means a lifetime!

#10

Bruce,

It’s true that colors fade out on those signs but they are so easy to replace. I print out duplicate signs and then stick them right over the top of the old ones provided they’re only faded and not peeling off. As for Salmons Produce I think it has weathered out quite nicely. Of course I like things that look old and faded like me. hehe!

A couple of things I’ve experienced: I found that individual vinyl letters hold up quite well when applied on a smooth surface. Their biggest weakness is when applied over a surface of individual wood planking. The boards expand and contract at different rates and sometimes in different directions causing the letters to be stretched and break loose.

The biggest cause of fading of course is sunlight and colors other than white and black fade much quicker. If complicated signage can be faced away from or at least sideways to the sun’s direction the colors can still fade but they will last a lot longer.

Lastly for printed signs the particular brand of ink and printer makes a difference. There will still be fading but in my example I found that the ink from my old Epson printer was more weather resistant than either my later Kodak or HP printers but was very expensive for most uses. I prefer my highly reliable HP printer with more economical ink for most everything and I can live with getting maybe one less season from the signage than I could get from the Epson in exchange for the economy.

One thing I’m doing now is to paint my signage on wood board buildings. I first apply the lettering color to an area on the building and let it dry and cure a couple of days, then place individual vinyl letters. Then I paint the sign area with the “background” color and then carefully peel off the vinyl letters exposing the color beneath. As the wood siding weathers there is no peeling off of letters but rather a realistic weathering of the sign letters as well. I also clear coat everything, painted and vinyl letters/signs as well.

I get two seasons from inkjet printed signs facing the sun in my location but as I say replacing is so easy except when it rains all the time. Not much different than replacing my license plate stickers every two years. Personally I wouldn’t give up on custom signage.

I should add in fairness that I have used a little of Del’s vinyl lettering and it is excellent! Everything I’ve lettered (rolling stock) is still intact.

#11

I haven’t tried Del’s paint masks yet, but they are made from a different vinyl that his regular vinyl letters and stuff. Be sure to specify paint masks when you dicker with him.

#12

What are “paint masks?” Is that like a stencil? Or do you mean that when Richard peels off Del’s vinyl letters–exposing the paint underneath–is that what you mean by “paint mask,” Steve.

Just askin.’ Good idea, though, Richard. I will try that someday, having read various how-to articles on the subject. IMHO, on old buildings, painted on signs look the most realistic, unless the business had a stand-alone (or is it, “hang-alone?”) sign made and stuck onto the building. Ya can go either way and I was surprised to see that the car repair garage that will be my next project, had both at various times in its life (it’s 83-years-old).

#13

If it makes you feel any better, it’s not working for me either…:wink:

#14

Joe Rusz said:

Here’s what I’m talkin’ about

Sign painted on wall

Sign painted on backing and hung on wall

Very strange! I can see the photos when I “quote” you in edit mode…but not in preview. I have no idea what is going on.

But, they sure don’t show up in a post

#15

Ah, I think I know. Don’t copy the image! Copy the picture LOCATION instead.

#16

Richard Smith said:

Bruce,

As for Salmons Produce I think it has weathered out quite nicely. Of course I like things that look old and faded like me. hehe!

I not old and faded(well maybe) YET…but I was thinking the exact same thing Richard!

#17

Bruce, my experience mirrors Richard’s. A lot has to do with the brand of ink or specific colors of inks used. I’ve got some printed vinyl signs that have held up very well, and others that have faded as yours have. The only difference I can think of is the ink or perhaps the specific colors of inks being used. All of them have faded to some extent, which is expected out here with our sun (a newspaper left on the driveway until noon will have turned yellow already), but signs printed on one printer compared to signs printed on another seem to fare differently. I spray everything with a healthy dose of Krylon UV protectant, though I’ve never done a side-by-side test to see if it actually does a lick of good.

(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/eastbroadtop/BlacklogStation/Blacklog01.jpg)

These are “brand new” signs put out just last fall. You can see in the background, the Beers & Green woodworking shop is now Beers & light turquoise. It’s been out since 2008. The yellows seem to fade the quickest. Cyan and magenta (used for red) and black hold up better. I don’t have a photo, but my Rockhill Smokeless signs (red and black) look almost as good as they did when they were printed. I had one batch of signs where I ran out of black ink, so I “tricked” my printer into printing multiple layers of CMY in photo mode to get me as rich of a black as I could. It looked pretty good when first printed, but they faded to a grey within a few years.

Alas, since I can’t seem to keep an ink-jet printer working in this house for more than two years, I don’t have a consistent brand of ink that I use. So I print, save the file, hope it lasts, and if not, peel the signs off and print again. I use just a few small dabs of silicon to hold my signs on in the first place, so pulling them off to replace them isn’t very difficult.

The vinyl letters and paint masks are nice and work well; I’ve used them when feasible. But you’re limited by the comparatively limited detail that you can cut on the vinyl. Multiple colors and small type as seen on my station signs above are not practical. (And if I may offer one criticism of the particular vinyl lettering on your signs, the plain font you used detracts from the quality of the buildings. It looks like it was a “quick fix” afterthought. It doesn’t fit the style of the streetscape at all.)

If anyone has a spouse with a Cricut, Silhouette, or similar craft cutter, you can cut your own vinyl lettering and masks. The Cricut is limited to the fonts on their cartridges (though older versions of the cutter can be hacked), but the others can print art designed on your desktop using the fonts on your computer.

Has anyone tried color laser printers with the vinyl paper? Years ago, I used to print station signs (black on white) out on a laser printer, then attach them to styrene backs using polyurethane resin. (Fiberglass resin). The resin soaked into the paper, and bonded the paper to the sign at the same time. The signs held up very well, but you were limited to black on white.

Later,

K

#18

I had an “Aha” moment, so here’s what I’m talkin’ about…

Painted on wall sign

Painted on backing material then hung on wall

#19

Joe Rusz said:

I had an “Aha” moment, so here’s what I’m talkin’ about…

Painted on wall sign

Painted on backing material then hung on wall

Joe, I think you’re doing “Copy the Image” instead of “Copy Image Location”. I can see your pictures in edit mode, but NOT in the post. A bug, I think.

#20

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/joerusz915/Garage2.jpg)

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/joerusz915/Garage3.jpg)

OK guys…I think I see the problem…when yo are posting from the freightshed you have to actually click on the picture, and bring up the picture before you copy and past the url…when you are tring to copy the link from the freightshed you are getting some of the stuff that allows the thumbnail to popup in the directory…that doesn;t translate so well…