Large Scale Central

Sierra, end of the line

General Discussion
#41

If you run normal r/c, you will need to find every dcc address and kill it.
If you want “real-time”, and they don’t get it right at the dealer, you will need to reset it.

If your dealer is two states away, you really should learn how to do it yourself.

God help you if you don’t, if the system “glitches” and loses a setting (we won’t go there), or resets a dcc address all on it’s own (once again, we won’t go there), you will be quite happy to have the interface and program.

If you want to “fine-tune” the sound, you really should know how many setting there are.

However, if you are happy with something that simply makes noise out of the box, then go for it.

#42

Most that I have heard is little more than “Noise out of the box”, but I guess that type of noise pleases the vast majority.

#43

As I grow older and start to look around me, as I move more slowly: I discover the sights I used to miss, and am noticing the unnesessary NOISE that we all take for granted.
Making more noise a part of my hobby is NOT desirable, let alone the average CRAP, that comes “Out of a box”…!!!
I can save loads of money, better used to enrich my other enjoyments, and decrease the spread of NOISE by NOT bothering with these useless NOISE MACHINES.

#44

I still surprise the operators here when I run an engine out on a wayfreight, stop, and turn the sound OFF.

Like hiding a piss-poor operating locomotive with some dcc unit, I won’t hide a noisy drive with sound.

If you can’t make it run smooth, quiet and well, better take up knitting.

#45

Personally, I’d much rather hear a model loco that sounds like a real loco, than one that sounds like a model (silent or not). But to each his own…

#46
Curmudgeon said:
If you run normal r/c, you will need to find every dcc address and kill it. If you want "real-time", and they don't get it right at the dealer, you will need to reset it.

If your dealer is two states away, you really should learn how to do it yourself.

God help you if you don’t, if the system “glitches” and loses a setting (we won’t go there), or resets a dcc address all on it’s own (once again, we won’t go there), you will be quite happy to have the interface and program.

If you want to “fine-tune” the sound, you really should know how many setting there are.

However, if you are happy with something that simply makes noise out of the box, then go for it.


Hey Curmudgeon,

pretty normal general negative comments, it makes me feel like you had a heck of a time with phoenix sound. I am sorry to here that you encountered problems, and it astonishes me even more, since i see no problems with the sound it self. Where i found trouble was that my DCC shut down to fast, due a false short detection.

Pleas could you specify what normal r/c is, i did not know that there is anything else. You mentioned “you will need to find every dcc address and kill it”, pleas could you explain how you kill a DCC adress, i was not aware that this is possible, maybe if you delete to many things in a software program, that might be the reason why it does not work for you.
you mentioned" if you are happy with something that simply makes noise out of the box, then go for it"
Well, my view on this, even if you fine tune the sound somewhat, it still remains noise out of a box, and if i see that wrong, i am more then happy to learn something new.

think global pius

#47

Normal up until now was triggers.
T/E, LocoLinc, Reed’s, RCS.

I will tell you this:
I sold Sierras for 4 years before I even knew they HAD a service department.

I am one of the oldest Phoenix dealers.

You’ve installed 5?
Whoop-de-freaking-do.

HUNDREDS, and hundreds, Dallee, Phoenix (starting with 96) and Sierra.

Have to deal with consumer issues almost daily on all sorts of things.

Do you have any idea how many LS’ers don’t even have a computer to load the program ON to?

I don’t have a problem using Phoenix.

The gist of the thread was we lost a very good, useful sound system that does NOT need a computer interface, CAN be programmed by non-technical folks, uses relatively low power, is reliable.

Thanks for hijacking the thread.

#48

PJ.

I favour no one sound system over another.
Sierra served a useful purpose and will be missed because it provided a less complicated access to sound that Phoenix does.

Now that Sierra has gone that leaves just the P2k2 and P5 (+P5t) as the only fully digitised sound systems for use with regular R/C systems.
If and when QSI gets the message and makes their sound trigger with magnetic track trippers like Greg Elmassian has suggested, they may be able to be used. Although the consumer who wants them for battery R/C is still limited in choice to one brand of R/C.

When using the P2k2 and the P5 with regular R/C with DC (including pwm) outputs, the assigned DCC triggers have to be disabled to avoid internal Phoenix program conflicts which can make the P2k2 and P5 behave quite oddly. Also the DCC address must be set to 0. As in zero.
What I like about the P5 is the non DCC triggers can be assigned to trigger either high or low.

#49

TOC refers to “Normal RC”, Tony refers to “Regular” RC. Definitions please?

#50

“Normal up until now was triggers.
T/E, LocoLinc, Reed’s, RCS.”

#51

Yeh!!! What he said.

#52

“Normal up until now was triggers.
T/E, LocoLinc, Reed’s, RCS.”

Makes absolutely no sense to most of us, which is I suppose the point

For what it’s worth, I have a Phoenix sound card (2k2) I bought to put in a steamer. It’s now in a diesel, thanks to Bruce Chandler, who has thew software and was kind enough to update the card. He shared his complaints with the interface, which I agree is clunky and harder to use than it needs to be.

Now I have a noisy model that sounds like a diesel, but not exactly like the prototype! Horrors.

But so far, everyone who has heard it has grinned happily.

Now if they all knew what “Normal up until now was triggers. T/E, LocoLinc, Reed’s, RCS” actually means, they probably would have turned up their noses in disgust

Wouldn’t that be great!

Meanwhile, QSI’s decoders are pretty cool. Documentation is bad, especially for a rank novice like me, but the all-in one feature is a pleasure and the software works well. You need the software to change one sound file to another, but most of the other changes you can make with the throttle

#53

Here’s my take on the whole friggin thing.
When I started in large scale, there wasn’t any sound.
I enjoyed running my trains.
I bought one of the first LGB Moguls with sound back in '87 or '88.
This was cool!
Phoenix came along with their sound board and I installed one in a mute Mogul.
Better sound than the first LGB factory sound.
Over the years, I’ve installed a lot of Phx’s, as they updated and improved, up to the P5.

Sure, it’s fun to blow my whistle or ring my bell when I want to.
If Phx goes TU, I won’t care.
I’ll run them until the sound card fails and then run silent.
If AW goes TU, I won’t care. I’ll swap the RC out to RCS.
If nothing is left, I’ll fix the loco to run on track power again.

And then we have run full circle.

jb

#54
mike omalley said:
"Normal up until now was triggers. T/E, LocoLinc, Reed's, RCS."

Makes absolutely no sense to most of us, …


“Triggering” refers to initiating a sound function manually from the R/C transmitter. So the “normal” is referring to the way the interface between the R/C board and the sound board is done. In the past, this was always done with discrete switches. The R/C board used the same inputs on the sound board as the reed switches used for automated sounds. Nice and simple.

Recently, AirWire (and perhaps others?) have used a DCC interface between the sound board and the control board.

The benefit of this is you can now trigger many more sound functions with less wiring between the boards. So if turning on the table lamp in the dining car via remote control is your thing, you can now do it.

The downside of this DCC interface, in my opinion, based on my experience, is that it is very susceptible to EMI (electro magnetic interference) from our large scale motors. Hence the sound triggers only work at very close range. (Just saw this demonstrated again at our last club meeting).

Why are the manufacturers pushing DCC down our throats? And perhaps why has Sierra stopped supporting this simple interface in favor of DCC?
Again, only my speculation, but its the numbers. The HO guys are DCC and they outnumber us by several orders of magnitude. It doesn’t pay off to support a minority product that requires just as much research and development money as the majority HO products. So they try to use the HO technology on the large scale products. If you don’t like it … they simply drop the large scale product and continue to profit in the HO DCC market.

#55

Thank you! That makes sense

I have found that with airwire/QSI the reception is sometimes a bit odd. Sometimes excellent, faultless range, sometimes balky on the DCC triggers. Not sure why. That being said, I’d take it in a second over the Phoenix 2k2, with it’s more elaborate wiring and chuff sensors.

#56

I watched in amazement as one guy with two diseasemals with P’nix and airwire tried to run him locos here.

He seemed to think he could not just turn the power switch off.
Had to “power down” the prime mover first.

But, he had to dig out his “cheat sheet” every time he wanted to do something.

Then, he wanted to run locomotive number two.

Off to the car, find the manual (documentation), sit down and read it (twice) and try to address second loco (three times) and then he was set.

The funny part is it is now becoming more important to have “technology” than model railroads.

#57

I have a P’nix 2K2 installed in an SD45 controlled by an Aristo 75mHz TE. When I push the “Go” button, the start-up sounds appear, followed by idle.

I push the “Go” button again, I get 2 short whistles, indicating either that I am altering my course to port or moving forward, I’m never really quite sure. The sound advances to “Notch one,” and the loco begins moving forward, slowly. And so on.

The street crossing whistle sounds if I advance to about notch 5. As I advance the throttle, the RPMs advance as well. My only complaint is that the loco speeds up before the RPM sound advances, but I can live with that.

Only when I push the “emergency stop” button do I get squealing brakes and what I guess is coupler clank. So, I slow the loco to “Notch one,” position it where I want it, and hit Emergency. The sounds work like a charm, and it’s not too hard on the gears.

I don’t really need all the “bells and whistles.” I don’t know where the P’nix “destruction” manual is.

What I find really crazy is when the loco starts moving, gets to notch 4 or 5, and then the diesel start-up sounds appear. It’s like, “Dude, can’t you be patient and wait for the sound that you spent so much money on to appear before you go rocketing off down the track?”

#58

“Didn’t you know, EVERYBODY wants DCC?”

Not me.

Get loco, open loco, take out anything with a PC board and throw away, connect track power to motor. 2 wires.

Dont need sound either, but then you all knew that, did nt you.

Proud to be a member of the anal og mafia.

Bye now

#59
Steve Featherkile said:
What I find really crazy is when the loco starts moving, gets to notch 4 or 5, and then the diesel start-up sounds appear. It's like, "Dude, can't you be patient and wait for the sound that you spent so much money on to appear before you go rocketing off down the track?"
That is why it is nice to have the PC interface. You can easily tweak all of those things to your locomotive.
#60

I know, Del. I guess my point was that I am content the way it is. My installer did a pretty good job meeting my needs at the time.

Re-reading what I wrote, I wasn’t clear. It’s the other guy, who does have the interface but doesn’t know how to use it, whose loco rockets off down the rails before the prime mover starts up. :stuck_out_tongue:

One of these days, I might get the interface, if I decide to get more soundcards. I have a mainline about a mile away, and the acoustics are such that it sounds like it is just behind the fence… Who really needs a soundcard, anyway. You probably couldn’t hear it for the 1:1 interference, as it is. :lol: