Mark Dash said:
So this isn’t a "model"according to Marc??
Its 99% 3d printed from scratch drawings
Its a model, but its NOT scratchbuilding, if anything its Manufacturing, granted on a cottage industry level. The reason i say that is with the 3D printer and the program file there really is no limit to the amount you can replicate. That definitely falls into the manufacturing camp.
Congratulations, when do you start shipping?
Vic,
If you apply that then anything that is produced with the help of any machine tool e.g. frame milled on a milling machine, wheels turned on a lathe, holes drilled on a drill press would not qualify as scratch built?
Times have changed, technology moves on etc. etc. the “scratch building” now happens in the design process. And there is a lot of “scratch” in that process — unless you have access to high-end software and know how to use it.
So if someone uses molds to make parts like Burl does, then he isn’t scratchbuilding then by that logic either then, because he can easily replicate the results?
And I guess anything on a laser cutter is also not scratchbuilding, but if you cut the pattern by hand then everythings ok cause a machine isn’t used?
If you use scale lumber bought from a supplier, then it’s not scratchbuilding then?
If you use nails or glue that’s made by someone else then is your “scratchbuid” truely scrathbuilt by you then?, lol 
I believe scratch built purist would argue that using any form of modern technology, like a PC or laser
cutter operated in conjunction with a PC is not really scratch building at all.
Remember the scene in “Apollo 13” when they had CO2 problems and they had to devise a means to get rid of it in a real hurry? Well, they threw some stuff on the table that replicated exactly what was on the ship at the time. The NASA guys came up with a “scrubber” made from SCRATCH!!!
That is how I view scratch building. Just stuff laying around and you turn it into something usable or artistic perhaps, but it comes from stuff laying around.
Stacy
If ya look up what is scratchbuilding on the internet ya get stuff like this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scratchbuilding
"Scratch building is the process of building a scale model “from scratch”, i.e. from raw materials, rather than building it from a commercial kit, kitbashing or buying it pre-assembled
a 3d printer is merely a TOOL that takes a RAW material (PLA plastic in my case), and builds what you design it to build…
and Stacey, your Apollo analogy actually is the definition of kitbashing not scratchbuilding… As the parts are not “raw” materials, they are pieces of other things glued/taped/tied together.
I have asked the question of where is the line between kit-bashing and scratch-building. The answer is kindof open to interpretation. I consider my sagged boxcars scratch-build, because the only commercial model railroad parts are the trucks, wheels and couplers. I cut the lumber on a table saw, I formed the metal parts and I built the thing sort of like the 1:1 jobbies would have been built, from raw materials.
Now number 7, my locomotive, I consider a kit-bash, because I took an existing locomotive and made a new boiler and cab for her, reworked the existing coal bunker, and reused the stack and domes that came with the original locomotive.
For my steam locomotives, I would prefer kit-bashing over scratch-building. That way I have a drive train that I know works, and a fairly solid frame to build on. If I had to take drivers and build a frame and gearbox from “scratch”, I am not confident I could do it accurately enough to have it work properly. I say that partly because I have never done it, and partly because I don’t have the tooling to machine parts to tight tolerances here. I have a drill press and a hobbyist’s table saw.
I am in awe of those who can do such things, and make such good looking models. Me, I am not into making museum quality models, I just make running models that look good to me. No, the models don’t have all the fragile bits that can get broken off, but I am happy with what I build.
David Maynard said: I am not into making museum quality models, I just make running models that look good to me. No, the models don’t have all the fragile bits that can get broken off, but I am happy with what I build.
David,
I think you have captured the essence of what this hobby is all about. Do what makes YOU happy. 
Mark, yada yada yada…
When do you start shipping?
At one time a model magazine attempted to define scratch built, parts built, kit bash etc etc etc. They even started getting into percentages of things used. Like a scratch built freight car with Brand X trucks would still be scratch built because it contained more than 75% scratch built parts. It opened a whole hornets nest.
There are many places where the lines blur together. I like most would have to disagree with Mark H and say 3D printing is scratch building. But, I also think that when it turns into production it isn’t scratch building anymore. Almost every loco and car was “scratch built” as a pre-production model. Same thing with figures, buildings, pretty much everything in the model train world. Someone somewhere had to make the first one to make the molds from. That first one was scratch built, in some cases kit bashed but you get the point.
Mark, I think your loco is scratch built. You designed it and built it. That one will always be scratch built. When you start pumping them out for Vic those models will be production. Same thing with Burl. His parts were scratch built. If you get his parts and then start building the car this to me, is where the grey area starts. Where does using premade parts start to water down scratch building? I’m not much of a purest though. I like to see them all, scratch, bashed and kits.
Terry
Well…, how pure do you want to get? I bought the plastic sheet from a supplier?
I agree with all of you! I just wanted to clarify what Stacy called ‘scratch’ and he obliged.
Building something from the raw materials these days is done (see Joe’s pictures above) but there is so much available to help (CAD drawings and laser cutters to help me make a model of EBT baggage #29, 3D printers to make a whole dismal, etc.)
The lines are clearly blurred these days - but I get a lot of models without having to make them from scratch!
I guess it’s a matter of how far you want to interpret the term Scratch-building.
For the most part, someone else has already built the supplies you need. Motor blocks, cast parts, plastic parts, etc. If you gather all the stuff you need for the project, I think scratch-building is the correct term.
Kit-bashing is taking something already built and modifying by removing and or re-attaching your supplies to your own specifications.
I dunno. Maybe modifying is a better term than either one.
I didn’t actually manufacture any parts for this box cab (Or the water service car behind it) but I built it from those parts.
The 2-8-2T below was built by Mike Williams using LGB, Bachmann and other parts. I consider it scratchbuilt, because the boiler is PVC and so on…
I dunno, I think the line between kit-bashed and scratch built is “sliding”, for example in my mind using the tanks and cab and details from other locos, and only the boiler is pvc tubing would still seem to be kitbashing, i.e. most of the components come from other locos.
BUT
My hat is off to all of you that can create such nice looking locos, and it’s great to have something different from the off the shelf stuff.
I don’t have the time nor the expertise to do any of this, so I have my 2-10-2 Mountain and 4-8-4 Northern, and E8B all made by someone else… and they are bashed, all components are from other locos, cut and modified and fitted together.
Regards, Greg
I don’t understand the need to classify or define it? You make something you like…sometimes other people like it too. Enjoy it, share it, don’t think about it too much…
There is no NEED, just an interesting (in my opinion) discussion about a good definition and distinction between scratch, bashed, etc.
You don’t HAVE to think about it, but it is a interesting discussion to at least a few people.
Greg
Bart, I don’t think too much about it. I do say “I made that”. If the person I am talking to wants to talk specifics then we do, otherwise I just leave it at that.
Bart Salmons said:
I don’t understand the need to classify or define it? You make something you like…sometimes other people like it too. Enjoy it, share it, don’t think about it too much…
What were we talking about again?
scratching a built locomotive, Rooster.
Shut up Rooster.
The NMRA has some very strict requirements about what constitutes scratchbuilding. Thats because the rules they have to recognize a modelers abilities in order to qualify for their Master Modeler designation.
