Large Scale Central

Scale speed: do you follow it or don't you?

Operations
#1

In the September issue of Model Railroader, “NScale Insight” columnist Jim Kelly addressed the issue of model train speeds. saying that many (most?) model railroaders run their trains too fast. He blamed it on our upbringing–playing with our Lionels, which had Magne-Traction to keep them glued to the rails when we ran them too fast. Anyway, this got me to wondering how fast I run my trains on my simple, living-room loop. I got out my 1:22.5 scale ruler and measured the circumference, 675 scale feet, or a little more than a one eight of a mile. Doing some ponderous math (I flunked the subject) I figured out how fast my train could go, given that it’s powered by an 18 volt battery. The answer, about 40 mph, tops. Slow speed, where it looks right, proved to be about 15 mph.

So, do you run you trains at scale speeds? Or do you enjoy the thrill of seeing them rip around at warp speed 'cause it looks cool?

Just askin’.

#2

I some times wonder if I run mine too slow. Most of the time when I run I’ll do some switching moves so I’m either slowing down to stop or speeding up to go.

#3

I run about 10-12 mph, as measured by my bike speedometer.

#4

I generally run quite slow, unless I’m trying to get the cars back inside before or during a rain storm. All of my battery powered locos use the RailBoss system which has a programmable top speed. That combined with low battery voltage (14.8V on most, 11.1V on some) gives me a pretty slow top speed and lots of control in between.

#5

Scale speed is one of my pet peeves. On my garden railroad I try to run my narrow gauge equipment at about 20 scale MPH or less. My standard gauge stuff I run a bit faster. Dave Bodner had a device that measured scale speed that he set up on our HO club set up, and I discovered that even though I was running my trains slower then some of the other members, I was still running mine faster then I thought I was. I think running slower looks better, and it makes the layout seam larger, but the kids almost always want to see the trains go faster. This isn’t a race, so I don’t go faster because someone else wants me to.

#6

Slow speed capability is one of the reasons I invested in Accucraft’s EBT #12. I’m planning on lots of switching the mines and realistic speeds hauling all the coal north. I’ll be installing my R/C set up to provide as much slow speed control as possible.

Interesting that all the respondents thus far have been contradictory to the general assumption. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)

#7

Bruce Chandler said:

I run about 10-12 mph, as measured by my bike speedometer.

Bruce, can you go into more detail as to how you calculated the scale 26" wheel. I’m not seeing it yet, as to how the bike speedometer knows the difference between a 1:1 26" bicycle wheel and a 1:24 26" wheel.

#8

I run sloooooooow. Like said above, it looks better and makes the layout seem larger. Plus my equipment doesn’t derail as much on my crappy track work!!

T

#9

I don’t have a speedometer car but I found that after I started using sound I tended to run slower. All of my steam engines have triggers for the correct four beats per revolution instead of two that many use and by adjusting the speed so that the chuffs sound correct to my ear I get a nice realistic looking speed.

#10

Since I run diesels, my speeds are between 40 and 60 MPH, passenger runs can go a little faster… I don’t ““Lionel”” them, but I probably run a little fast at times, esp as stated earlier, about trying to get the locomotives in from the rain…

During Ops sessions, I don’t mandate to anyone about speeds as most folks usually run their own speed which in most cases is not that fast…

#11

Slower the better

#12

Ive been playing around with speed a bit this year, but the Rockwall Canyon still runs pretty quick…like Andy, I probably set about 45mph for diesel freights and 70mph for the RDC set, and somewhere in between for standard passenger runs. I don’t have sound on any engines, so I tend to run the engines at speeds that sound good electro-mechanically. …I’ve never lost a motor in any of my diesel engines (some FAs have been in use for 20 years), so maybe there’s something to it.

#13

Modelling a shortline suggests slower speeds which is what I do. Anyway, those of us who have small backyards can avoid tail chasing by operating at slow speeds. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)

#14

I live by the main UP line across Nebraska. 3 tracks in this area. Coal trains run about 45-55. Container trains run 50-65. I run my MTH trains about 35mph, the controller tells me the speeds. I think my grandkids have run my Pacific about 60 mph or more!

#15

Dan Padova said:

Bruce Chandler said:

I run about 10-12 mph, as measured by my bike speedometer.

Bruce, can you go into more detail as to how you calculated the scale 26" wheel. I’m not seeing it yet, as to how the bike speedometer knows the difference between a 1:1 26" bicycle wheel and a 1:24 26" wheel.

Dan,

The beauty of the system is that the bike speedometer DOESN’T know the difference. The speedometer defaulted to a 26" wheel. So, every time the magnet on the wheel goes by the sensor, it thinks it has gone 26" x pi…or about 82". So, in this case, it’s just scale inches, but it doesn’t know that. It works well, and I like that I get the elapsed time, average speed, total distance travels, and other statistics. But, the best part is that I get an appreciation of what 10 or 12 scale MPH looks like.

#16

Speed depends on the type of train on my RR.

A passenger train goes faster, a string of boxcars slower and coal or timber even slower.

Yesterday was kind of a mix up. It was Sunday so there was a railfan 5 car passenger train headed up by a 2 truck 38 ton Shay. The other train that was running was a NW2 with 5 tank cars and caboose. I have one TE that controls the track voltage. Say at 15 volts the diesel runs at 40 and the shay runs at half that. Luckily I have 3 passing sidings so when the diesel was catching up I could either let it pass or hold it.

If the shay was set to run at proto speed it takes 7 minutes to get around the RR. The slower the better unless the track is dirty then the speed needs to be upped to coast over the bad spots!

Years ago I built a Odo car like Bruce did. I should get that going again before my engineers start getting speeding tickets!

#17

When I build my 1880 narrow gauge bullet train I plan on running it at 100 scale mph. That is until the first corner then I will take it back in and rebuild it.

I never much cared when I was into the smaller scales what my scale speed was. i ran at whatever felt right. But after running trains at Steve’s i wonder what we were running scale wise. We ran fairly slow which just seemed to be right. It seemed realistic in that to run fast would have caused congestion. I can see when I get layout up and running that I will be running at slow speeds.

#18

I’m likewise in the 10 - 15mph camp for my trains. I run narrow gauge, and many timetables show speeds usually in the 10 - 20mph ballpark for trains of various classes. With the short distances between locations on my railroad, dropping the top speed from 20 down to 15 gives the trains just that little extra time to get where they’re going.

In terms of gauging speed, I know 22 feet per second is 15 miles per hour, and my wood hopper cars are 23’ long. If it takes them less than a second to pass any given point on the railroad, I’ll back the throttle down just a bit.

Curiously, when I had some modern diesel equipment on the line for testing, it needed to run faster in order to look good. It ran upwards of 30 - 40 mph before it looked prototypical, so “what looks good” (to my eyes, at least) seems to be a combination of prototype and the physical space.

Later,

K

#19

Hah! Great answers that indicate we’re all on the same page when it comes to things like that.

Gary, you mentioned chuff triggers. Where are yours located, loco axle or tender axle? I’ve done it both ways but am currently using the standard Bachmann loco setup, which is two chuffs per revolution. I’ve read–and believe–that four are best, but then I gotta get in there and start trying to attach extra metallic strips to the axle, etc. As for strip spacing, and having heard real locos, I’ve wondered if spacing one of the strips slightly off so that the rhythm isn’t as steady and predictable, would sound more realistic. Kinda like, “CHUFF, chuff, chuff, chuff,” rather than “chuf, chuff, chuff, chuff.” I can play you an iPhone video of the Sugar Cane Train (now shut down) to illustrate my idea.

Did I get us off topic here? Sorry.

#20

Unevenly-spaced chuff contacts affects the rhythm of the chuffs, not the cadence. You wouldn’t get “CHUFF chuff chuff chuff,” you’d get “cha-chuff chuff chuff” or “cha-chuff cha-chuff.” This is known as being “out of square,” and was generally something that would get rectified in short order by the shop mechanic. An “out of square” valve timing affected the draft, thus the efficiency of the locomotive. How soon “in short order” was with respect to getting the valves re-timed probably varied significantly from railroad to railroad.

Most modern sound systems (Phoenix, QSI, et. al.) have programmed-in variations in the cadence of the chuff itself, so you get that "CHUFF chuff chuff chuff rhythmic sound. Some allow you to program that variation to some extent. Some “shay” sound files allow you to select between a 2- and 3-cylinder Shay, so the emphasis might be on every 6th chuff for a 3-cylinder as opposed to every 4th for a 2-cylinder version. You can–on some Bachmann locos with optical chuff triggers–adjust the timing to simulate a slightly out-of-square locomotive sound. You can do the same with magnets triggering a reed switch. I’ve got one loco where the magnetic field of the magnets is such that going forward the chuffs are evenly timed, but going backwards, one of the magnets triggers the switch ever so slightly early.

The variations in cadence of the chuff (how loud the chuff is) has more to do with the amount of steam passing through the ports. This is also a function of the valve timing, but is a function of how wide the ports open as opposed to when they open in the cycle.

Later,

K