Large Scale Central

Scale speed: do you follow it or don't you?

Operations
#21

I agree with Kevin’s last paragraph. I don’t measure scale speed nor do I care. I love my modern mainline stuff highballing and run to what looks good by my eye.

However there is an exception to that rule because the south loop on my dogbone layout has a public street view and if I have folks watching out front I tend to speed things up to keep the spectators happy.

Jim Kelly is correct in regards to me however I grew up with HO (did have a Lionel set though). As a child what kid stood at grain silo and watched and waited watched and waited watched and waited while they switched cars out and ran at the correct speed? Perhaps a few but most want to see them highballing! I still do !!

When my boy was about 5 he had his first Strasburg RR ride. We rode the train out to the end of the line at Amtraks Keystone Corridor and sat and waited for the return trip. In the meantime the Amtrak Pennsylvanian blew by us at say 70/80mph laying on the horn and the steamer blew back. My boy tensed up, jumped out of his seat and freaked out…all he kept saying DAD…“did you see that” … “that thing was like speed” made the whole coach break out in laughter…So this brings me to another question Joe…what got us all into trains to begin with??

(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

#22

After I posted, I remembered that I had started a similar thread on another site, over 5 years ago.

http://www.homodeltrains.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=315

The whole concept of scale speed appeals to those who are into operations, or properly representing the prototype on our railroads. As in all things here on the P&CS, the 10 foot rule, or the close enough rule, rules. I don’t carry a stopwatch and I didn’t ticket the engineer of my F3.

#23

David Maynard said:

I don’t carry a stopwatch and I didn’t ticket the engineer of my F3.

You fibbed Maynard…you said you didn’t run diesels in a PRIOR THREAD !

#24

My handy calculator says I have a whopin’ 3/4 scale miles of mainline track! Let’s see 20 minutes to crawl around… so 3 times .75 = 2.25 miles an hour. Man if God wanted us to travel at such speeds we’d have been born with wheels! Speed is variable of course, I slow down going up.

A 10 minute trip with stops at; Tucson, the mine, the fossil, a speed restriction at the Junction and return. So there are 3 sections of acceleration and deceleration between the stops, maybe 20 smph briefly.

Why?

A big honkin’ machine that moves and pulls a long string of cars! A living snake of train…

I loved taking things apart … just to see. Trains got put back together because they ran! Better than a vehicle, trains are alive, they have history and might!

John

#25

David Russell said:

David Maynard said:

I don’t carry a stopwatch and I didn’t ticket the engineer of my F3.

You fibbed Maynard…you said you didn’t run diesels in a PRIOR THREAD !

No, no I don’t think that’s exactly what I said. I have said that steam rules here on the P&CS. I have also said that my lead engineer, Smokey, doesn’t like then newfangled, unproven, cantankerous diesel-lectric thangs. But a few of them diesel-lectric thangs have followed me home over the years. In fact, there is a thread here somewhere, where I posted pictures of my shelf queen, a Western Maryland Alco FA1.

#26

I not only run scale speed, but I set the decoders to run at speeds that match the DCC speed step, i.e. I can set the speed on the level track by dialing a speed step between 1 and 126, although I limit the top speed of my locos to match the prototype top speed.

I also have a wireless speedometer car that also measures track voltage:

#27

As to why we got into trains: Toy ones, because they’d appear in the department stores at Christmas and call to us (me); Real ones, because the sight of a fire-breathing, smoke-belching steam loco thundering past, shaking the ground was an image I’ll never forget. The best show, for those who like sheer speed, were the NYC Niagaras, which used to scoop up water at about 70 or 80 mph from trackpans mounted between the rails. Water flying everywhere! This was on the mainline between Cleveland and Buffalo, near Silver Creek, N.Y. where I spent almost every day of my summer vacation hanging out at the telegrapher’s shack on the Nickel Plate, which was next door. The operator spit snuff to a spittoon across the room, while telling the best tales about the building of the railroads. He even let me pass the train orders to the engineer on a hoop as the engine/train rumbled by. There were cab rides too. Do I sound like an old fart?

#28

Joe, if you have Phoenix sound you can change the chuff so it will chuff 2 times per contact.

T

#29

I have a similar set up to Bruce Chandler’s. My bike speedometer though, which cost $6, works on the circumference of the wheel which a magnetic sensor is “reading” on every revolution. Simply set up the wagon’s wheel circumference, measure the distance it rolls to complete 1 revolution (9.5 cm), then multiply by 1:20.3 ( the scale of the stock I am running in this case ) program this size in and set to MPH. Accurate speed and distance every time. I fitted a tiny neo’ magnet into the back of the wheel at just above rail height to act as a trigger to pass the sensor mounted to the underside of the gon’ body. A little bit of fun for very little money.

This gon’ is a 1:29 Aristocraft 20 ft with some add on bits to give it more of a 1:20.3 look. It also acts as a track cleaner (LGB springy leg things) and a “match” wagon to couple up disparate stock. Handy bit of kit. Max

#30

Gee, Yunz guys are getting all high tech there. Me, I just count seconds to cross my bridge and approximate the speed from there. I am back to the ten foot rule. Its close enough for me.

#31

On my RR I count the ties. They are roughly 1" apart, therefore 63,360 ties to the mile. It takes me just about 10 minutes to pass that many ties, so I guess I’m going a tad slow most of the time. Only about a mile in ten minutes so 6 miles an hour.(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

#32

Dave Marconi said:

On my RR I count the ties. They are roughly 1" apart, therefore 63,360 ties to the mile. It takes me just about 10 minutes to pass that many ties, so I guess I’m going a tad slow most of the time. Only about a mile in ten minutes so 6 miles an hour.(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

That’s a lie cause we all know you don’t have that many fingers and toes to count.

#33

Joe Rusz said:

As to why we got into trains: Toy ones, because they’d appear in the department stores at Christmas and call to us (me); Real ones, because the sight of a fire-breathing, smoke-belching steam loco thundering past, shaking the ground was an image I’ll never forget. The best show, for those who like sheer speed, were the NYC Niagaras, which used to scoop up water at about 70 or 80 mph from trackpans mounted between the rails. Water flying everywhere! This was on the mainline between Cleveland and Buffalo, near Silver Creek, N.Y. where I spent almost every day of my summer vacation hanging out at the telegrapher’s shack on the Nickel Plate, which was next door. The operator spit snuff to a spittoon across the room, while telling the best tales about the building of the railroads. He even let me pass the train orders to the engineer on a hoop as the engine/train rumbled by. There were cab rides too. Do I sound like an old fart?

(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

#34

Kevin, great info. You’re right, it’s rhythm, not cadence. I did rethink the idea, though, and kinda came up with what you discussed. Namely, that the thing to do to simulate out of square engine timing is to eliminate one contact on a four-contact axle (while leaving the other three contacts intact), so you would get three consecutive chuffs, then a skipped/no chuff, which would give you a “Chuff, chuff, chuff” rhythm pattern, right? But not in iambic pentameter. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

#35

Backing up the train a few comments, Max (Winter), you are a sick man. Showing us that damsel in distress whose predicament seems not to matter to those two clowns at the top edge of the photo. The two white wires running from what appears to be a lamp post or a signal, run to the track, so either those two guys are stealing power from the railroad to light their lamp, or they are diverting power from the lamp and sending it to the rails in order to electrify them and ensure that the damsel will meet her maker in one way or another-- by dismemberment or electrocution. Am I right? (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif)

#36

And I always wonder what is scale time? Is scale time necessary to figure scale speed? Can time even be scaled?

Distance = Rate X Time

Rate = Distance/Time

So, scale rate = scale distance/time. I guess since that leaves scale above the bar on both sides of the equation, it works.

#37

Forrest, some model railroaders do use a fast clock. This is so they can simulate the passage of more time, as the train travels from place to place on their layout. So, in a sense, some model railroaders do use a form of scale time. But I think if you used scale time in the scale speed equation, then one would end up with trains that hardly move.

#38

Chuff again, huh? Well as far as speed goes … All my locos are Bachmann 1:20.3 Spectrum. I run my K-27 like it is running on marginally maintained narrow gauge trackage, so it is in the slow range. My Shays run even slower due to the fact that they are geared for maximum pull, not hot rodding. My 2-8-0 runs average speed for a slow freight. The speeds are set by my eye and what I feel looks the best.

#39

Joe Rusz said:

Backing up the train a few comments, Max (Winter), you are a sick man. Showing us that damsel in distress whose predicament seems not to matter to those two clowns at the top edge of the photo. The two white wires running from what appears to be a lamp post or a signal, run to the track, so either those two guys are stealing power from the railroad to light their lamp, or they are diverting power from the lamp and sending it to the rails in order to electrify them and ensure that the damsel will meet her maker in one way or another-- by dismemberment or electrocution. Am I right? (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif)

Let’s see.The wires from the track are going into a giant Acme wall switch (big on/off/danger sign above it) that Dick Dastardly can flip on to do a bit of nefarious electrocution of his victims if he wishes. You missed the motorcycle combo’, on the right, that he will use to make his escape. Tee’d up out of shot to the left are a 3 truck Shay, Climax and Heisler, plenty of axles, just make sure the dismemberment is complete and final if the big switch thing don’t work (Acme stuff very unreliable, ask Wylie Coyote). Oh boy I’m a very sick man, too many Chuck Jones/WB cartoons as a kid. Mu-ha-ha-ha-ha ! (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)Max.

#40

When I had the KVRwy going full bore in the backyard, I had a steel H-Beam bridge that crossed the driveway. Clearing the abutements you had a 10 foot clear span. I had a speed chart for 1:20.3, 1:21.4 (my scale at the time), 1:22.5, 1:24 (in case Gary ever came out) and 1:29 taped to the back of the throttles. So that way an engineer could check his speed. No clue how many operators used it, but once you get used to your own 20 mph or 40 mph for your scale, you can match it most of the time.

You know the old Speed equals Distance over Time (or whatever)

The ole time Engineers, and anyone else, used telegraph poles with a mile marked off in a certain area. put that against your watch and you had your speed. I believe there was a conversion chart in most Employee Time Tables.