Large Scale Central

Republicans and oil

Jerry Bowers said:
Victor:

You are ignoring the fact that much of the current run up in oil prices was due to the actions of trading speculators who have captured a significant percentage of the world supply and then set about to control the price. It appears that it was not the doing of the oil companies. The traders are the ones who are raking in profits . . . for doing nothing.

Jerry


WTF are you talking about???

Exon Mobil has produced the highest earnings report in the history of business!!!

Am I missing something cause “i’m having a bad day”???

traders might be makin more, but so are the damn oil companies, and a heck of a lot more than your thinking!

Additional info on free markets.

They require swift and widespread communication to work.

The knowledge that same thing is for sale cheaper elsewhere will draw customers away, lessening the demand at the more expensive locations.

Shortages that drive prices up will alert the suppliers who will rush product in to the area of higher prices.

Anyone ever visited gasbuddy.com?

http://www.gasbuddy.com/

A fine example of swift and widespread communication.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

Mark:

First of all, I know exactly what many of the oil companies are making, along with numerous other companies I follow as a minor hobby, and to see how U.S. industry is doing. Since these companies are publicly traded, they have to publish their results, which then become public knowledge.

You are right about Exxon’s gross profit. Since Exxon is the world’s largest publicly traded oil company, one would expect that their gross profit would be among the largest of all U.S. corporations. Making a profit is what businesses try to do.

But gross profit isn’t a prime indicator of how a company is doing and doesn’t have anything to do with whether a company is ‘profiteering.’ The real question is how is their income vs their out go. A prime indicator of this is a company’s “gross profit margin.” This is the revenue (income) minus cost of goods sold, divided by revenue, expressed as a percentage. Exxon’s gross profit margin for the past 12 months is 39.4%.

Another important indicator is the “pre-tax profit margin,” which is the pre-tax earnings from continuing operations, divided by revenue, expressed as a percentage. For the past 12 months, Exxon’s pre-tax profit margin is 16.9%.

As a comparison, here are the gross profit margins and pre-tax profit margins (shown in the format “gross profit margin / pre-tax profit margin”) of a few publicly traded U.S. companies, in descending order:

Microsoft: 84.2% / 39.4%
AT&T: 61.5% / 16.9%
General Electric: 56.1% / 14.4%
Union Pacific: 55.6% / 18.5%
Exxon: 39.4% / 16.9%
Apple Computer: 35.5% / 21.2%
Chevron Oil: 24.9% / 14.6%
Boeing Aircraft: 21.8% / 9.5%
Ford Motor: 21.2% / -7.8%
General Motors: 7.0% / -13.9%

So if any ‘industry group’ of companies look to be ‘profiteering,’ it would seem to be the “damned” (your word) large computer, electronics and communications companies. Exxon is in a somewhat distant fifth place, just in the small group of companies I listed.

As I have written before, the oil companies just aren’t the villains they are made out to be. You may not like that, but if you want to attack a company for high profit margins, why not go after Microsoft for their 84.2% gross profit margin, or AT&T, 61.5% gross profit margin. Just look at Union Pacific’s 55.6% gross profit margin! Outrageous to some, but the engines of our economy to educated folks.

BTW, I ran a small high technology manufacturing company from the early 1990s until a couple of years ago. Our target for gross profit margin was 50%. We thought anything over ~35% was acceptable, and actually made better than that in several good years. Even so, we went bankrupt, mostly due to overseas (Asian) competition and a general lack of sales in our industry.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

Mark Dash said:
Jerry Bowers said:
Victor:

You are ignoring the fact that much of the current run up in oil prices was due to the actions of trading speculators who have captured a significant percentage of the world supply and then set about to control the price. It appears that it was not the doing of the oil companies. The traders are the ones who are raking in profits . . . for doing nothing.

Jerry


WTF are you talking about???

Exon Mobil has produced the highest earnings report in the history of business!!!

Am I missing something cause “i’m having a bad day”???

traders might be makin more, but so are the damn oil companies, and a heck of a lot more than your thinking!


Yea Mark, you are having a bad day. Huge companies make huge profits. They also pay out huge taxes…

"Exxon Mobil earned $36 billion in 2005 after paying $23.3 billion in taxes on revenue of $371 billion. Looking at that result you realize that in America today, a “windfall” profit is one that amounts to less than 10% of revenue.

Many businesses we regard as successful operate on small profit margins. After paying $5.8 billion in taxes in 2005, Wal-Mart earned $11.7 billion — a nice chunk. But those earnings were on revenue of $312 billion, a mere 3.4% net profit margin."

Oil Industry Ranks #60 By Profit Margin

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2008/08/oil-industry-ranks-60-by-profit-margin.html

Whether the oil companies are making huge profits is of no consequence.
The fact is they have no incentive to see the price of their product decrease. Common sense indicates they will do their best to increase the price of their product and profit from high oil prices. As “for profit” corporations this is their responsibility to their stock holders.
We have to “fix” the oil problem.
Ralph

I guess their main incentive is just to piss off the American public…:wink:

So what do we do? Lower their profit margin? Raise their taxes so gas costs us more? Have them drill on leased land that has no oil? Or open up other sources to exploit cheaper sources of oil?

Somebody want to put an oil well in my front yard? I’ll go for that.

Ken Brunt said:
I guess their main incentive is just to piss off the American public..............;)

So what do we do? Lower their profit margin? Raise their taxes so gas costs us more? Have them drill on leased land that has no oil? Or open up other sources to exploit cheaper sources of oil?


The Russians claim if you drill deep enough …you will strike oil.
We don’t know if the leased land has oil or not. Much of it hasn’t been explored or tested.
Like I said before…require domestic content. Start at current levels (30/70) and increase the percentage of domestic oil required every year. You can meet this requirement by lowering overhaul demand for oil as well as increasing domestic output. Lowering overall demand includes the use of alternatives.
Ralph

Ric:
I have a nice spot picked out in my back yard for an oil well. If they’ll pay me enough…they can use the same spot for a wind turbine.

Here’s a good spot…

(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz082208dAPR.jpg)

“Ric: I have a nice spot picked out in my back yard for an oil well. If they’ll pay me enough…they can use the same spot for a wind turbine.”

How about a wind turbine on a solar powered oil well and then the pumped oil flowing down hill to a hydropowered electric turbine before it reaches the storage tank, where is it hauled off by battery powered vehicles? Why is it I think Ted Kennedy would think this was fine in Oklahoma, but not on Cape Cod? We have large oil fields about 20 miles east of us and they are pumping like crazy. We’ve been pumping oil out from under Carlyle Lake for the last 20 years, it doesn’t seep up to the service any more and the County gets about a $75.000.00 royalty check each year. Keeps property taxes lower.

Ric Golding said:
The great villains in all of this are governments, both State and Federal, that are enjoying the increased tax profits they have made with the price of oil and gasolene going up. I don't believe you'll ever hear them admit or complain about their windfall.
I have mentioned that the oil companies have no incentive to drill in the US. I was right. I thought Sarah Palin taking on "Big Oil" was good. I was wrong.

“Her major legislative accomplishment has been to revamp Alaska’s windfall-profits tax in order to increase the state’s take. Alaska calls it a “clear and equitable share” tax. The state assumes that extracting oil from the tundra costs about $25 per bbl. and takes as much as 75% of the difference between that and the sale price.”

This is profitable for the State of Alaska. But, as you can see, is detrimental to domestic production.
I see that Ric had it right to begin with.
Ralph

Gee Ralph, you finally land back on earth…:wink:

Ken Brunt said:
Gee Ralph, you finally land back on earth..........;)
Say, I just took a shot at "your girl". If I'm back on Earth, where are you ? :lol: Ralph

I was out in the shop…:wink:

Besides, your shots are pretty mild considering some I’ve read and heard…:wink:

As far as any incentives to drill in this country or even explore , with the amount of tree-hugger’s and, greeneies that pop out of the woodwork with their endless litigation, lawsuits and demonstrations against it, not to mention the endless rules and regulations that the state and federal governments impose on them, it’s no wonder they go overseas to get their supplies. Look what happened in GA when they were trying to build some coal-fired electrical generators.

Here we go again…oil jumps $25…the dollar takes a dive.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080922/ap_on_bi_ge/oil_prices

They haven’t spent a nickle of that 700 billion dollars yet, and we are already paying.
Ralph

Yea, I noticed on my last trip to FL. gas prices down there were a dollar higher than diesel…you guys are getting gouged.