Now, now Ralph 
the religious clans tried to convince us often enough that this or that couldn’t possibly be. Until some “scientist” proved them wrong and probably got persecuted, banned, exiled, excommunicated and/or strung up for the trouble of advancing the general knowledge of mankind.
If memory serves, weren’t Adam and Eve supposedly turfed out of Paradise because they ate from the tree of knowledge? Is that why “knowledge” has been and still is such a threat to religion?
Tim Brien said:Yes Tim, but they don't have a monopoly on that, they just cornered a large portion of the market. ;) :) From my perspective there's a very vigorous competition on who can best the champions! :)
HJ, the word 'hypocrite' comes readily to mind when I try to understand my exposure to the Catholic religion.
I know some pretty weird train folks as well. That doesn’t make all of us weird too, does it? Well, not me anyway. Show me one organization that does not have it’s share of wack-os. Stereotyping people is not cool, What about the Germans? Jews? Blacks? etc.
Some of the most intelligent and educated and accomplished individuals were people of faith. But not all.
Ralph, sorry I missed your post. Yes, I believe that angels were breathing for you.
There are more things under heaven and earth, HJ, than are thought of in all your philosophies!
All, there are two Creation Stories in Genesis, The first being in Gen 1:26, 27 and the second being in Gen 2:7-25. These are two separate, distinct stories. Why that is, I do not know.
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Now, now Ralph ;) the religious clans tried to convince us often enough that this or that couldn't possibly be. Until some "scientist" proved them wrong and probably got persecuted, banned, exiled, excommunicated and/or strung up for the trouble of advancing the general knowledge of mankind.If memory serves, weren’t Adam and Eve supposedly turfed out of Paradise because they ate from the tree of knowledge? Is that why “knowledge” has been and still is such a threat to religion?
HJ,
when we look to history, religion seems to be at the centre of all the conflicts, whether opposing views of faith of the christian religions, Islam, Hindu, Sikh or Jewish faiths. It seems that the closer one feels to God the more violent that individual becomes. Are we missing something here with our understanding of God’s teachings? Remember in the bible, do unto others as you would have them do unto you and the best of all ‘an eye for an eye’. The new testament would have us turn the other cheek. Is there one Old Testament god and a new more conciliatory New Testament God. It seems that many have not heard of the New Testament and prefer the fire, rock and brimstone version of God and lead their lives accordingly. Other religions interpret their holy scriptures to suit their lifestyles and their convoluted beliefs.
The Koran would have us make peace with our neighbour and not make war on him, regardless of his faith and yet would have us exterminate all infidels. The best part is the part that would have us make war on our neighbour, but afterwards we must make peace with him (assuming someone is still left standing to make peace with). At the inception of the Islamic religion (around 300AD) it was acceptable for churches to split up their days of devotion. Certain days of the week would be devoted to the christian religion observances and other days the church would be used for followers of Islam. We went from sharing places of worship to exterminating each other. Is it the ‘word’ that is wrong, or the people who are teaching us to be inciteful of others?
Tim Brien said:
HJ, when we look to history, religion seems to be at the centre of all the conflicts, whether opposing views of faith of the christian religions, Islam, Hindu, Sikh or Jewish faiths. It seems that the closer one feels to God the more violent that individual becomes. Are we missing something here with our understanding of God's teachings? Remember in the bible, do unto others as you would have them do unto you and the best of all 'an eye for an eye'. The new testament would have us turn the other cheek. Is there one Old Testament god and a new more conciliatory New Testament God. It seems that many have not heard of the New Testament and prefer the fire, rock and brimstone version of God and lead their lives accordingly. Other religions interpret their holy scriptures to suit their lifestyles and their convoluted beliefs.The Koran would have us make peace with our neighbour and not make war on him, regardless of his faith and yet would have us exterminate all infidels. The best part is the part that would have us make war on our neighbour, but afterwards we must make peace with him (assuming someone is still left standing to make peace with). At the inception of the Islamic religion (around 300AD) it was acceptable for churches to split up their days of devotion. Certain days of the week would be devoted to the christian religion observances and other days the church would be used for followers of Islam. We went from sharing places of worship to exterminating each other. Is it the ‘word’ that is wrong, or the people who are teaching us to be inciteful of others?
Tim, I respectfully disagree with your postulation that religion is at the center of all conflicts.
The root cause of conflict between men is power and money, which when you really think about it, is the same thing. Religion is often blamed, but is never the root cause.
Even during the First Crusade, when the Muslims conquered a large part of the known world, religion was not the cause, power and greed was.
Steve Featherkile said:
[b]Ralph[/b], sorry I missed your post. Yes, I believe that angels were breathing for you.There are more things under heaven and earth, HJ, than are thought of in all your philosophies!
All, there are two Creation Stories in Genesis, The first being in Gen 1:26, 27 and the second being in Gen 2:7-25. These are two separate, distinct stories. Why that is, I do not know.
David Hill said:Genesis 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness. Genesis 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.
........ the Bible was inspired by God, written by men, without contradiction or any significant errors.........
Genesis 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
Genesis 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.
Genesis 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
Genesis 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.
Genesis 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.
Genesis 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.
Genesis 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
Genesis 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.
Another couple of hundred errors here: http://www.geocities.com/atheistdivine/errors/genesis.html
and for those of you with still some openings in your minds: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
Oh Phil, how could you? Next thing we know David Hill will ask “Why is it there are so many aliens (as in non-Americans) of such little faith? Do they not see “The Hand” at work in all that happens?”
If one reads the ‘sceptics bible’, Genesis 5.3 - 5.31, then most of the main characters live to almost one thousand years old, each. How is creation ‘science’ able to place a date of creation, when the ancient figures of the bible in Genesis, bring us up to known history and the birth of Christ. Remember, at this time in Genesis, Abraham had not been born and the Exodus was still far in the future. Somehow creation and fiction seem like synonyms.
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Oh Phil, how could you? Next thing we know David Hill will ask “Why is it there are so many aliens (as in non-Americans) of such little faith? Do they not see “The Hand” at work in all that happens?”
HJ, You have faith. You have faith that you are correct. You have no facts or evidence. Ralph
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Ralph Berg said:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Oh Phil, how could you? Next thing we know David Hill will ask “Why is it there are so many aliens (as in non-Americans) of such little faith? Do they not see “The Hand” at work in all that happens?”(http:///F-PIX//icon_tc.gif)
HJ, You have faith. You have faith that you are correct. You have no facts or evidence. Ralph
Ralph, Let me put it this way, Grimm and Andersen are the fairy tales I like and I don’t put high expectations in them, I just like them. 
Steve Featherkile said:
[b]Ralph[/b], sorry I missed your post. Yes, I believe that angels were breathing for you.There are more things under heaven and earth, HJ, than are thought of in all your philosophies!
All, there are two Creation Stories in Genesis, The first being in Gen 1:26, 27 and the second being in Gen 2:7-25. These are two separate, distinct stories. Why that is, I do not know.
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Wow, lets see where to start. Phil your “conflicts” are all not really that. Refer to my answer above to Steve.
Aliens? Most Mexican aliens I understand of of very great faith, Europe has long since abandoned faith in favor of humanism. (No insult intended, just a fact as I understand it.)
Creation can date time back since the Jewish calender does not recognize A.D. (anno Domini).
I like fairy tales too, but we are always sure to tell our children they are just that, tales which include Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
Which brings me to a point I’d like to ask, do you agnostics still take the day off on Christmas and Easter?
TonyWalsham said:David Hill said:
Now, to answer your question Tony, that I thought was rhetorical, but maybe you are interested to know how humankind started.The wives of Cain and Able were likely their own sisters. Since God created Adam and Eve perfect, their genes were not corrupted so there would not be any problems.
It wasn’t until in later years, according to scripture, that God forbade intra-familial marriage, which may indicate the human genome had deteriorated from environmental exposure to global warming perhaps, that problems related to inbreeding would become/were becoming evident.
I guess if you believe that you will believe anything.Your answer is the first time I have ever come across a “believer” attempting any sort of answer.
Not to worry. Your choice and you are free to make it.
Just please don’t expect us rationalists to understand or accept such “theories”.
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Ralph Berg said:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Oh Phil, how could you? Next thing we know David Hill will ask “Why is it there are so many aliens (as in non-Americans) of such little faith? Do they not see “The Hand” at work in all that happens?”(http:///F-PIX//icon_tc.gif)
HJ, You have faith. You have faith that you are correct. You have no facts or evidence. Ralph
Ralph, Let me put it this way, Grimm and Andersen are the fairy tales I like and I don’t put high expectations in them, I just like them.
Even if the Bible is a fairy tale…there are many other religions not based on the Bible. You have formed a conclusion…without doing the research. Ralph
