Large Scale Central

Re-routing the line

Track and Trestles
#1

After a good bit of contemplation, I have decided to re- run the original line, because of it’s location.

That said, the plan is to rent a ‘ditch witch’ and cut a trench 10" deep and 15" wide so I can double track where needed.Using 1"x6" Koma board, I’ll build a ladder system. I hope to have this much done by spring.

Once the above portion is finished and graded, i can place 4" of gravel in the ditch and pour concrete roadbed. Which will allow me to run decking over the entire system. If I edge this I should be able to place ballast and float my track.

My questions are:

  1. Should I use reinforcement rods to the concrete, or will the ladder provide enough reinforcement ?

  2. Should the decking run perpendicular, or parallel to the ladder ?

Any help is appreciated.

#2

OK - I’m a bit confused by your combination of roadbed methods. Not that it won’t work, but seems like a lot of materials and effort. My thoughts are that trench with ladder alone should be stable enough. Adding the concrete topper and then decking seems like overkill.

To answer your question about reinforcement; I’d say yes. You don’t need the heavy rebar unless you are going over 6" thick, but a reinforcing screen would be a good idea. It will crack no matter what you do, and the screen will keep it from separating at the cracks. I use un-coated garden fencing for this.

#3

You may run into a problem getting a Ditch Witch to cut a trench that wide. Most only cut it about 6-8" wide, just wide enough for conduit or cable. That;s what they’re made for. Even if you run it twice to double the width, the first cut will fill back up with what you remove from the second cut. I’ve used a Ditch Witch many times over my career at the phone company. If you have any questions just give me a call. I don’t think what you’re trying to accomplish is going to work.

Besides that renting a machine like that could cost you a pretty penny. They aren’t cheap.

#4

Ken Brunt said:

You may run into a problem getting a Ditch Witch to cut a trench that wide.

Ken’s right.
What you need is a backhoe. Didn’t your neighbor have a backhoe?
Ralph

#5

A back hoe would work fine… Last time I was there, there was one sitting in the yard area… Of course, that was a few years back…

Other way would be with a roto-tiller, run it where you want, and shovel the dirt out… It’s a lot more back-braking work… Don’t ask me how I know this…

If you are going with a concrete roadbed, then I’d say placing rebar would be a good idea… Maryty’s roadbed is concrete, and he used rebar in the concrete…

I too am confused with your use of concrete roadbed, and ladder track…

#6

Ive rented a Terramite from the local rental place a few times. Its a small loader/backhoe combination, easy to use. Last time, about three years ago, it was $240 for the weekend (delivered Sat AM, picked up Monday). Well worth the money.

#7

Bob McCown said:
Ive rented a Terramite from the local rental place a few times. Its a small loader/backhoe combination, easy to use. Last time, about three years ago, it was $240 for the weekend (delivered Sat AM, picked up Monday). Well worth the money.

That’s what I was thinking of too, only I didn’t know what they called them. I’ve seen some that just have 3 out riggers with a back hoe, a seat, a small motor and controls.

#8

They’re really neat, and small.

(http://www.robinrents.com/terramite.jpg)

1 Like
#9

For goodness sake this seems like an awful lot of trouble for a toy train, and then it’ll still be 'way down there at ankle level, a location that you may regret very soon.
Hollywood, you’re far to intelligent for this silliness!
The first thing I did after building a backyard railroad at ground level was to start packing fill under the track to raise it, raise it, year after year, a brick or two’s height every year. Finally I realized that’d never be right.
OK, now I’ve really offended everyone… :-o
From the get-go, why not put your railroad up at a level where you can work it, on benchwork about 36-40" high. That’s what I’m doing right now and it’s working out great.
I’ll never go down on my hands and knees again!

#10

Thanks for the replies gents. Now John has thrown another boulder in the way as I have a sloping yard and raising the low end up instead of lowering the high side does seem to make more sense.but if i raise the low side I’ll need to create a trough to support the concrete to imbed the ladder into, so more dilemmas to consider. Guess I’ll give this some more thought before I proceed.

Again thank you all.

#11

Dave,
your back and your knees will thank you, if you raise your stuff.

and - don’t imbed your ladders!
just give them additional, inclined posts, that you use as substructure for chickenwire.
on the chickenwire some cement-soaked burlap, some paint on it - and done.
it would be quicker, cheaper and friendlier for future changes.

why make a mountain, if you can fake a mountain?
do it Hollywood-style…

#12

Korm raises what perhaps is the most important point of all: Don’t do anything permanent!!!

In my experience, I have wanted to make changes every year since I started backyard railroading, and it’s not because I’m a just a flakey guy who can’t make up his mind. No, it’s because the more experience I got the more I realized I hadn’t got it all quite right yet.

I might have said this to you yesterday, Dave, but I didn’t want to roll that boulder right over you. Chances are that you will want to make changes. Chances are about 1000%. So I say skip the concrete. In the first seven years in the backyard I made changes every year to evolve a couple of starter sets running around in circles at ankle level to a big loop at knee height with a few spurs and a two-track freightyard, to a serious model railroad on benchwork at 1 meter’s height (approx. kitchen counter height.)

First off, no bending. Second off, no weeding. Third off, I can see the sides of my trains. I only have a small city backyard, so if it’s on the ground I can pretty well only see the roofs, which are of little interest compared to the sides.

Now, my benchwork is more like tables, but I’ve designed and built them in a highly flexible way. I can’t see into the future, but I think at this point I’ve made all the mistakes and missteps and I know what I’m doing - so I can’t forsee any changes, but oh boy, have I been wrong before! So I know I will be able to make changes easily if the need arises.

The kind of railroad I’m building is maybe 'way different from yours, so my solutions may not be useful in your case, but check it out anyway. Go to our website and download the Oct. (edited-month now correct) 2013 newsletter, in which I gave a report to the club on just what I’m doing and see if any of it might be useful, if only for a completely different perspecive. CHEAP, too!!!

Max Sarazen, a backyard railroader on Cape Cod, builds his layout on tables, and he makes changes all the time. He uses 4x4 pressure treated legs standing on pavers. All that can be moved around as well. When I get a little further along I might switch to wooden legs myself, but I’ve got plenty of home grown cedar posts that I can use.

Go ahead, download that newsletter and let’s hear what you think… It’s at the very top of this page above the list of older issues. http://www.backyardrailroaders.com/newsletter.html

(edited - Oct issue not yet archived. So I posted my report a little further along in this thread.)

Cheers!

#13

Right informative there John. But, I’m not sure I want to incorporate a skunk into the area, though I’m sure you have had no problems with the addition

#14

I don’t unnerstand how you heard about the skunk, who moved out by the way, Dave, unless you opened an earlier newsletter where I did mention him…

Anyway I’m talking about my report on pages 4,5,6 of the Oct newsletter, where you can see the Littleton industrial and port area up against the house, and how it is built to be quick, easy and changeable, on cement block pillars and 2x6 planks for the top surface. No skunks in that story…

I believe it’ll show you an alternative way of going about things that will give you most of all, an easy way to make changes in the future, something that I have found myself wanting to do quite frequently as my perspective has grown ovewr the years from trains going in circles on the ground to a fully operational railroad at a decent workable height.

I’d hate to see anyone put in a lot of time and material and expense and labor, then end up going through a similar set of stages to what I went through and be unable to make the required hanges, then get bored and let the whole thing go fallow. I’ve seen that happen to other guys.

I can even confess that I let my own earlier effort go fallow, pretty much abandoning it for a couple of years and feeling pretty disappointed in myself and the rr I had built, with all it’s scenery tunnels, rockwork, etc etc, at 18-24" or so all too close to the ground, and too much the boring old roundy-roundy, and way too much maintenance with weeds and ground settling and leaf litter and so forth. I felt pretty crappy about the whole thing. Too much work, too little fun…

I started off all over again to build something better all around the old, planning to abandon all that hard work, then finally after 2-3 years of agony I did figure out how I can sort of incorporate the old with the new. If I go ahead with that instead of just letting my wife plant flowers all over it, it will require a complete rebuild of that old section.

I’m trying to spare you all that grief! Cheers!

#15

John, the link that you gave us takes us the the September Newsletter, not the Octoger one.

#16

John, I read a couple of the issues and saw your layout when you first started the yard area with pics of how you raised the decking. And about the skunk under the shed

#17

I agree with Korm and John , if you are rebuilding get up off the ground. If your yard is sloping like mine is so much the better you can have some of the RR at ground level then the rest up. I’m in my mid 40’s and I’d much rather sit or stand to view and fix my trains than have to kneel on the ground. Another aspect is maintenance. My elevated sections require far less than the ground level areas.
It is so nice to see the sides of rolling stock and buildings and not just the roofs. My new yard is 50"s above ground at its highest spot and it is so nice to see the steamers rods and gears at work.

If you are planning to do all the cement and rebar etc… you can divert the cost to benchwork instead.

Also setting your track on concrete doesn’t allow you to change anything easily.

Good luck

#18

You are hereby required to stop any and all track work until the BL2 project is completed

#19

Mark Dash said:

You are hereby required to stop any and all track work until the BL2 project is completed

I think we already threw a wrench into his track work plans…:wink:

#20

Entirely my bad, guys, I’m so sorry… I really screwed up here. My report is in the OCTOBER newsletter, not the Sept. one.
The Oct one hasn’t been archived yet.
WORSE yet, this aft I inquired about getting it up PDQ for you, and learned we’re in the throes of having to find a new host so the Oct issue won’t get posted to our site for awhile.
Large Scale Online is not going to host us any longer, don’t know any details at this point.
Steve has seen my report by PM.
I plan to post some pix here tomorrow, God willing, which will tell Hollywood the story, or, even better, Dave, if you backchannel me I’ll send you the whole report just as our editor got it, as my freightshed is close to full & I doubt that I’ll be able to post all of it here.

johnleforestier A T yahoo DOT ca

Cheers fellas, from a sheepish guy.