Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Just to add one more: How about W-LAN (WiFi)?
What about it?
tac
tac Foley said:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Just to add one more: How about W-LAN (WiFi)?
What about it?
tac
There are a few adherents who believe that W-LAN is much more versatile than Battery R/C but I have read/seen little in NA fora on that topic.
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
tac Foley said:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Just to add one more: How about W-LAN (WiFi)?
What about it?
tac
There are a few adherents who believe that W-LAN is much more versatile than Battery R/C but I have read/seen little in NA fora on that topic.
I wouldn’t know about battery, since I have no experience. I can tell you that using the Android throttle app over my home network and the JMRI software made a huge difference in understanding and ease of programming and running my DCC trains. I don’t know why I didn’t do this before!
I’d include DCC in that comparison. There are inexpensive DCC systems with 3 amps that cost UNDER $200 by NCE.
Comparing a wireless R/C battery system to track power could make the “comparator” think that track power cannot have wireless control.
In fact the opposite it true, a wireless system like MTH DCS or any DCC has more control, power options, and is actually a system… try an emergency stop of all trains with the common “one on one” wireless battery r/c systems…
Greg
Tony Walsham said:
Well actually Greg, the OP did ask about battery consumption right there in the third para of your quote.
I would think common sense should tell any reader his overall intention was to ask about on board battery R/C. Not track R/C.
Agreed. Only problem is that the OP seems to start lots of threads, but rarely engages in the conversations he starts. Maybe we have scared him away with thread drift ???
If you are curious about radio control you could buy a Crest, Revolution set. It has a radio control throttle and receiver with sound which you can add to your Dash 9 and run track power.
Later if you want to add battery power, buy a lithium-ion battery pack (6-cell recommended for diesels) and try that. The Dash 9 has a power switch that you can set to the battery power position to isolate the locomotive from the track power. That lets you use both the battery powered locomotive and track powered locomotives simultaneously.
Or you could buy a DCC command station, decoder with sound, radio control receiver and throttle and try that with track power. Later you could convert that locomotive to battery power.
This topic has been discussed on several forums, several times and usually ends up in a flame war, as people will always recommend and defend their choice vigorously. So you might want to visit some local railways that use these types of equipment and have them show you how it used and why they chose it.
Our club abandoned track power more than two decades ago because our climate is just not suitable. Now it has several wyes, as well as, metal bridges and turntables with the track fastened directly to them. That eliminates any chance of our group returning to track power. Over the decades we have tried several different radio control systems. The only ones remaining in use are the 27 MHz RCS systems, and several generations of Crest products.
If you want to read about battery power and radio control, there are lots of articles on our OVGRS club web site about it.
If you are interested in DCC, visit Greg’s web site. He is the person I always direct people to if they ask me about DCC.
Good and informative post, Paul. I, too, recommend anybody to read our OVGRS club web site for ideas - after all, if thirty-odd of us can run sixteen trains simultaneously on a layout as complex as the IPPPW, then the problems of running a couple or three pale into insignificance.
My Dash 9s are set up like that, BTW. Although I rarely run more than one at a time, I have to admit.
Best
tac
Ottawa Valley GRS
www.ovgrs.org
I would like to take this opportunity to thank each and everyone of you that replied to my thread here. I really learned allot and it is clear that RC is truly the way to go. Especially considering what I am building up for. Large scale operations demand that we have allot of control. Obviously track power is just fine indoors, but outdoors. yes, RC is superior. No track cleaning and allot more fun running your railroad.
Again really, thanks to all and please keep the thread going with more information. More info is a good thing. 
Stacy.
Do you mean battery R/C?
R/C is just the method of control and can refer to track powered R/C as well including R/C of DCC.
You can also get R/C of DCC powered by batteries although the DCC purists say it isn’t really DCC.
Battery powered comes in a variety of formats.
2.4 GHz Digital Proportional using knobs for control. Push buttons for sound effect triggers.
2.4 GHz pushbutton control such as Revolution and Rail Boss.
Proprietary 900 Mhz with a knob for speed and buttons for sound trigger outputs using DCC commands from the TX.
Full “proper” DCC is now available form CVP and Massoth has been promising something similar for a few years.
What is best for you?
Depends on what you want to do, what you are going to use for motive power and whether or not you really want sound.
Also depends on your budget. Radio DCC can get expensive but it does offer up to 28 sound trigger options. Other lower cost systems offer 4 - 6 sound triggers. Many operators find that is perfectly adequate.
I was asked in an e-mail from a friend about using a DCC decoder in a battery powered locomotive.
A number of year back I bought QSI Quantum Aristo decoder with sound and Quantum GWire radio control receiver, as well as, a CVP AirWire throttle. It was my intention to use these components in a battery powered diesel and not rely on the track to pass the DCC signals.
It was my impression that the QSI Quantum Aristo decoder with sound (to be replaced by their Titan Aristo decoder) could be plugged into the Aristo-Craft PnP socket and be run with battery power.
http://qsisolutions.com/news/12/titan-large-scale-051812.html
Their Quantum GWire radio control receiver plugs into the these decoders with a ribbon cable. If the CVP AirWire throttle communicates directly with these receivers, I see no need to pass signals through the track.
http://qsisolutions.com/products/q-gwire.html
I know other radio control throttles just link to the track powered command station, but I think this was different.
I have the same equipment, for evaluation, sent to me by the manufacturers.
Yes, the AirWire methodology is basically a throttle to locomotive closed system, with no intervening command station. The DCC signal is sent over the air, with very little modification from what you would see on the rails.
It does lack what other “direct to loco” equipment does though, having the concept of an overall “system”.
One example is consists (multiple locomotives in a train controlled by a single throttle), in DCC (and DCS I believe), once you “define” a consist, then ANY throttle can use that consist.
In the Aristo Revolution, one throttle has no idea what another is doing, and the consist information is not shared (in fact it’s worse than this, but this is brought forth as an example).
Regards, Greg
Running a locomotive off a fully operational pantograph line would also eliminate the need for track cleaning.
Stacy Krausmann said:
Running a locomotive off a fully operational pantograph line would also eliminate the need for track cleaning.
I don’t think so, the catenary is one pole and the track is the other pole. Just like the prototype; the overhead wire (catenary) carries the nominal tension (volts), but that tension is referenced to ground. Current (which does the “work”) will only flow between the two poles. That’s how it works for single phase AC and DC. It gets a bit more complicated with 3-phase systems.
The following link will give you the low-down on railway electrifications http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_electrification_system
I spent my “formative years” in the shade of a whopping large amount of catenary (Switzerland). The Swiss Federal Railways (SBB) are 100% electrified, as are most of the other railways including most of the narrow gauge lines with few exceptions e.g. Brienzer Rothorn, Monte Generoso etc.
The outdoor railroad I was referring too was a catenary run setup. The electricity flowed from the overhead lines right into the pantograph and right into the engine. In this case, a modified Piko Taurus with working pantographs. There was no electricity flowing from the track at all. Just the overhead catenary lines.
Stacy,
I’m not going to give you the “101 on electrical propulsion of railways”, there are certain laws of physics that apply and unless that Taurus ran on another planet in a different universe that’s just how it is. One pole is the catenary and the track provides the ground (the other pole). Simple!
Hans,
The G scale set up I saw was a Piko Taurus with a fully operational catenary to pantograph. The electricity flowed from the catenary right into the pantograph and then subsequently the engine motors.
I know this is NOT how it works in real life. Yet, that is what this electrical engineer accomplished. How? I am not sure, but it worked.
Yeah and from the motor one pole goes to the track. If the guy was/is smart he ties both rails together to get the most contact points possible i.e. all wheels and the pick-up sliders are in the return circuit. Doing it that way also makes return loops and Wyes a piece of cake, no polarity reversal necessary.
PS Since you don’t seem to know; it doesn’t matter if you scale the components up or down, the principle remains the same. It really is “Electrics 101”.
Stacy Krausmann said:
Hans,
The G scale set up I saw was a Piko Taurus with a fully operational catenary to pantograph. The electricity flowed from the catenary right into the pantograph and then subsequently the engine motors.
I know this is NOT how it works in real life. Yet, that is what this electrical engineer accomplished. How? I am not sure, but it worked.
Unless there were two wires with separate overhead pantographs side by side the power, once it has gone into the loco to drive the motors, MUST be returned VIA THE TRACK to the source to make the circuit.
At this point, I must suggest that there is a definite need for someone to very quickly, pick up a book called “How to wire your model railroad”, and read it from cover to cover…and it seems it might be a good idea to re-read the “Basic” section at the front.
Dreams are great. I have them too, but when it comes to electricity and how it works; the best advice is to buy that book, and read…the basics, at least.
NO OFFENSE MEANT, so don’t anyone, get your knickers in a knot…!!!
There is one obvious question here…
Why is this subject posted here, when there is a section on this forum for POWER/SOUND, or ELECTRONICS farther down the list, which is where it should be, I would think.
Please correct me, if I am wrong…I have quite often been proved wrong…!!!