Large Scale Central

Rail Clamps? - any conclusive data

Track and Trestles
#21

Steve Featherkile said:

Me? I like them both, I just can’t find the off size allen wrench for the split jaw.

That might be because it’s Metric? I’ll check later. When I first started laying track I went to the hobby store and bought some ball drivers; one for Aristo track screws, one for Hillman clamps and one for Split Jaw clamps and labeled them AC SJ and H on the ends. Most of the Aristo hex cap screws are too shallow for the driver (why I changed to the larger Phillips head track screws) , but they work great on the clamps. Much faster than fooling with Allen wrenches.

#22

Wendall

I mis understood…I thought you were soldering brass.

#23

David –

I appreciate you referenced soldering brass. My response (above post) was to both you and Rick. Rick reported success soldering stainless track - I hope he offers his how-to in attaining that success.

Meanwhile, your use of a miniature torch is good idea.

My guess is I am not the only reader interested in your responses to the questions I asked using the torch method. Please offer your insights.

Thanks,
Wendell

#24

Morning Wendell,

A torch is great for soldering or silver soldering frogs or other heavy pieces or large areas but really is not necessary for jumper wire work or rail joiners for that matter. All this work can easily be done with an 80 watt electric iron, about 10-15 bucks at KMart.

There is a thread on this subject from about a year ago here.

http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/17585/stainless-steel-rail-requested/view/page/1

Unfortunately the pictures are gone because I needed the room in frt shed.

Soldering metals is really quite easy but each step has to be done correctly using the proper tools and materials. I have been soldering garden RR stuff for many years using only 25 and 80 watt irons, .032 60/40 soft solder and liquid flux. I have joined brass, copper, black iron, galvanized iron, and stainless in just about every combination with no problems at all.

Anyway there is quite a lot of information in the attached thread, not all really useful to this conversation but good background knowledge.

Glad to answer any further questions you have.

Rick

#25

Wendall,

Another heat source for soldering is a Resistance Soldering Outfit. The primary advantage of this technology is that it keeps the heat VERY concentrated is a location, and very quickly. Good for soldering rail of any material because the heat travels only a very short distance. The disadvantage is cost. A good purchased setup will cost upwards of $250.00, but can be used for almost any soldering project from rail joiners (heavy material) to soldering small detail parts on a brass locomotive.

I have a terrible time with the search here, but there is a thread here with either Jon Radder or Bruce Chandler (brain cramp) building a brass box cab with a PBL unit. I recently ‘acquired’ an American Beauty outfit, but I need to get some connections straightened out before I can begin to ‘get educated’ in using it.

Rick is correct that one can solder almost any material to almost any other material, but it usually takes a bit of making certain that the fluxes are correct for the material being soldered.

‘Tinning’ the base material prior to making the joint is usually a good practice and will make for a better joint in our applications, especially if soldering different materials

FWIW from the peanut gallery.

Bob C.

#26

Bob Cope said:

Wendall,

I have a terrible time with the search here, but there is a thread here with either Jon Radder or Bruce Chandler (brain cramp) building a brass box cab with a PBL unit. I recently ‘acquired’ an American Beauty outfit, but I need to get some connections straightened out before I can begin to ‘get educated’ in using it.

FWIW from the peanut gallery.

Bob C.

Bob,

It was Bruce Chandler and here is the thread…

http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/19091/a-brass-critter

#27

“…used a very small flat blade screw driver to scrape the rail ends prior to the flux. At any …”

How about dropping in a 80grit or finer head into your motortool (ie dremel) to renew the shine on the ends/sides/railhead within seconds.

This past week i was putting together scrap track to make a length for a mantel piece config., and thought the ends looked quite scruffy/oxidized., quickly realized with the 80 grit don’t need much time to make it shine again before it starts wearing the ‘brass’ down too :wink:

With this renewed shiny connection (plus aristo’ railjoiners) have the option to connect a transformer to ‘lite-up’ the loco or other rolling stock.

nite

#28

A small wire wheel attachment on your mototool works well also.

#29

I found the best solution is battery or live steam :slight_smile:

#30

Gentlemen,

Try rail clamp design theory on this web site also at my large scale and Aristo-Craft Forum websites. You will be enlightened perhaps by the comments made on those threads.

Respectfully,

NYC Buff

#31

Gordon G. Perrin, Jr. said:

Gentlemen,

Try rail clamp design theory on this web site also at my large scale and Aristo-Craft Forum websites. You will be enlightened perhaps by the comments made on those threads.

Respectfully,

NYC Buff

Links?

#32

I run battery power so my personal knowledge is out. But, I do know a guy who uses only slip joint joiners like aristo, USA LGB etc etc etc. He puts conductive grease in them than screws them in place. If the joiner or rail doesn’t have screw holes he uses a pair of side cuts (dykes, wire cutters) and crimps the joiner once over the rail. He crimps it twice per side.

I use this method to hold my joiners in place as well and have found it to be very strong. I still use rail clamps, made by a club member, for bridges and switches so I can take them out for service.

Terry

#33

If you’ve got old, oxidized track, you can clean the ends of it by dipping it briefly in muratic acid then rinsing. (Sold at HD, Lowes, etc; usually for cleaning concrete.) I use it to prep brass models for painting, but it does a good job of cleaning the brass rails, too. You’ll want to do this outdoors, as the fumes are pretty nasty.

As for clamps, our club (DGRS) uses a mix of Split Jaw and Hillmans (or similar) on the display at the Colorado RR Museum. They both seem to work very well and require little maintenance. Every now and then we get a flaky joint, but “loosen, clean, tighten” seems to fix it every time.

I use them on my railroad, not for electrical conductivity, but for structural strength where I need the rails to be held in place and in alignment. Clamps do that much better than slip-on joiners do.

Later,

K

#34

Naval Jelly or phosphoric acid will clean track but must be wiped immediately. Phosphoric acid is also a great rust remover It is less corrosive to your hands and clothes should you get some on them.

#35

For those without a chemistry background, muriatic acid is a dilute form of hydrochloric acid. Will attack almost all materials except glass and most plastics to some degree or another. A good neutralizer for muriatic acid is a mixture of baking soda and water.

As for a painting prep, it works great as an etching agent but care must be taken to be sure to neutralize/rinse well as the acid if left in a crevice will continue to "etch’ under the paint. My recommendation if using as a paint prep would be a baking soda bath followed by a trip through the dish washer with no soap, just hot water.

My tuppence.

Bob C.

#36

I’ve used all types of track connectors, and have settled on two: Hillman Clamps and soldering rail. Since my track is all code 250 aluminum, soldering really isn’t an option, but I found the original stainless steel slip joiners useless after a year or two.

Resistance soldering works good with brass one foot sections. After soldering two or three together, I can bend them with a Train-Li bender, and join the sections with rail claps.

I like Hillmans’ better for most track, but find the Split Jaws useful for bridges or switches which might have to be removed for maintenance.

Soldering jumper wires with conventional soldering devices is not easy (especially in the dirt), must be either cut or desoldered for repairs. Again a major pain in the dirt!

#37

If you read between the lines, you will find most likely there are many more Battery guys that use them then Track powered. I use them because they work. Split Jaw and at shows the Train Li one’s cant be beat.

Roundy Rounds and 1/29th DCC, the future of the Hobby…

#38

I have used a variety of clamps. i run DCC and really can not say one clamp is better than the other. I used the over the rail joiner Split jaw with good results. This is on SS track. I also use Slit jaw straight to rail as with Aristo. Only failures I’ve had is with AC clamps breaking.

BTW Boomer you should go back and read the first part of your post. Sounds a little contradictory. Later RJD

#39

I have both Split-Jaw and Hillmans. I have found Hillmans easier to use with my poor eyesight.

#40

With my big fingers, I find the Split Jaws harder to use, as the two pieces will rotate out of the correct alignment, and must be completely removed to install properly. This is very hard to do in the field, in the dirt, with one half done correctly, while the other must be taken apart.

Resistance soldering of brass (or perhaps stainless steel) is a very good way to make longer sections but still want to use rail clamps to allow those sections to expand or contract.

My own experience is that in our club at least, most of the track powered layouts use clamps, while most battery or live steam layouts see little need and only avoidable expense with them. Our modular SIGS use clamps between the modules for stability, as the electricity is routed beneath the layout for the sparkeys and not needed at all for the smokeys.