Large Scale Central

Rail Clamps? - any conclusive data

Track and Trestles
#1

Please offer your input:

I am redoing our Southern California garden layout.
There is a portion of stainless track - I used Split-Jaw stainless clamps for the stainless - worked fine.
For the rest of the layout, 400’ of brass track, I used soldered jumper wires (hundreds of 'em!!)

Question:
Are the Split-Jaw/Hillman/etc. clamps the most long-term effective and time saving method of connectivity vs. the soldering of jumper wires?

Any conclusions from those of you with a history of soldering vs. clamps?

I appreciate your including your thoughts on the connectivity/durability for:

Split-Jaw? – Hillman? – 4-screws with plate type? --or?
Use stainless or brass – any differences?

Many thanks,

Wendell

#2

I don’t have any scientific proof of which is better, or if they actually improve conductivity…
All I can say is that I have used the Hillman rail clamps for many years with no issues at all. They survived on my first outdoor railway for a little over 8-years, when I dismantled that one I saved all of the clamps and have reused them on my new railway. (just had to change out some of the screws)
The first time you ever have to take a section of track apart you will be thankful that you spent the money to use the railclamps, it makes life so much easier.

#3

My opinion is a little different than Boomers. I’m no longer running track power, but when I was primarily used the screw joiners on the Aristo track. I changed out the screws to the larger heads found under the ties and had good results on Stainless track in the Northeast for well over 5 years with no continuity issues.

I always used rail clamps at switches and strategic section joints to allow for easier maintenance. For this purpose I prefer the Split Jaw since they make it easy to loosen only one side of a joint and remove a switch or section of track.

Stay away from Hillman’s if you run Stainless track. They never modified the profile of their clamp to accommodate the different foot profile of the Aristo Stainless track. They will work at first but every one I ever used on Stainless broke after a few years in place.

#4

Wendell,

My experience is with the four screw type flat plate (SanVal type). As sold, the plate and the screws are stainless steel (don’t know what grade). Our club uses them for our temporary layouts, over the standard slip on joiners. Ours are in and out often. Galling of the stainless screws is an issue. I have replaces some with plain steel screws with better results as far as galling. They do rust. I have also replaced some with brass screws. For speed efficiency, the original stainless steel, and plain steel screws are better due to the hex drive in the screw head. The brass ones are phillips head and do tear up after a while.

The galling is caused (in my opinion) by the base of the screw head when it hits the rail base causing extreme eccentric loading on the screw. Stainless steel fasteners are notorious for galling in most applications. I have tried some of the copper colored 'Never Seze" with limited results. If you are going to use this type of clamp, my recommendation is to replace the stainless steel screw with brass. The electrolysis everyone seems so worried about will take more years to damage the parts than your layout will exist. The brass is softer than the stainless and becomes the ‘expendable’ part in the assembly. At worst, even if the screw binds in a way you cannot remove it with standard tools, a torch will melt the brass with out damaging the stainless. Chase the thread afterward and away you go. As me how I know.

Personally, when I get to putting track down, I will be soldering jumpers with standard joiners. This will be done to allow for thermal expansion, not convenience.

Bob C.

#5

I have been systematically replacing my Split-Jaw clamps with the Pro-Line clamps. Train-Li sells them in Brass, SS, and Insulated. I really like the top reach to the screws for ease of installing and help for maintenance.

I run all Stainless Track, with track power, and I have never had a Bad Joint ( ether power, or separation) with these. Using the top screw for attaching power to the track is about as simple as it gets, Though I do use a Small Brass washer on the screw when I attach a Power feeder to the Screw. With a loop end on the wire, the connector is in direct contact with the rail, not just to the screw.

Yes they are a little Pricier $ But after screwing around awhile when trying to run with a bad section of track, The price becomes really cheep for the piece of mind.

#6

I used Hillman’s clamps when I ran with track power, and never had any problem with voltage drop. They worked like a charm. I still use them for mechanical connection, now that I run with battery power (mainly because I have them, and I can’t find the connecters that came with the track). I even have a few of the Split Jaw connectors, but prefer the Hillmans, though I can’t tell you why.

I’ve had good success with Aristo’s new screw plate connectors for their aluminum track, too.

I have to disagree with Jon’s statement about Hillman’s never accommodating Aristo’s stainless track. They did come out with a stainless connector that fit the stainless track, but was just slightly too big for the brass track. Once both are weathered, you have to look closely to tell the difference, though.

Given the success that I had with the Hillman’s for electrical conductivity, I would never consider going to the trouble of soldering jumper wires.

#7

**Steve Featherkile said:**I have to disagree with Jon’s statement about Hillman’s never accommodating Aristo’s stainless track. They did come out with a stainless connector that fit the stainless track, but was just slightly too big for the brass track.

I don’t wish to start a war here, but I bought his “Stainless” clamps when they first came out. They were the same size opening as the brass clamp only made in a non-brass metal. I’m not even sure it was stainless; may have been nickle silver. Here in the Northeast, when tightened on Stainless rail with the expansion and contraction of the rail foot against the clamp eventually the clamp failed. I still have a box of broken ones if you would like pictures.

To be fair they may have come out with one that was actually designed to accommodate the stainless track at a later date. If they did, I never bought any.

#8

I agree, Jon, the initial “stainless” clamps were the same profile as their brass ones, and they were always made of Nickel Silver, for some reason. Hillman’s got a lot of blowback about that failure, and had to redesign the thing. I had some (many) failures that first year, too, but after that, no problem. I should have some in my parts box, I’ll see if I can find one of each and get a photo.

I still have to be careful to check the profile and not put a brass profile clamp on a stainless track, as once the clamp is weathered, you can’t tell them apart by color, but that is becoming less frequent as most of the stainless track is now in place and I’m using aluminum track, now.

#9

I guess that all my stainless clamps are in use, but I found the following on Hillman’s website. Let’s see if I can use Bob’s new fangled tabs without mucking it up, too much… Nope, that’s not gonna work…

Hillmans Standard Clamp for Brass Rail

Hillman’s Clamp for Aristo Stainless Track

From the Hillman’s website: "The 332-01AC Standard Rail Clamp fits the unique profile of code 332 Aristo-Craft stainless steel rail. The flange slots are milled to provide a snug fit with the rail flange and the web easement is 0.085" to accomodate the thicker Aristo-Craft web."

They’ve stopped using the nickle plating, so there is no price differential

#10

The only place I use rail clamps is connecting turnouts to regular track compenents and that only 'cause I read a couple times waay back when that it made it easier to lossen and lift the tunrouts when maintenance req’d.

Otherwise stock AristoCraft rail joiners with mm of lgb conductive grease on the lip just before pushing the railheads together… since '99 no problems !

Also pull out the lgb track joiners, then tap/die for aristo joiners !

Only problem re: trackpower issues is the failings of the seemingly overpriced/overrated lgb power switching box. ahh yes time to dress warm and find out why a siding went powerless …can’t believe it is that 'box again thought i had done some due deligience on it last time a connector in it lost …

imho

doug c

#11

Unlike Jon, my experience with Hillman plated rail clamps on stainless rail is positive. I prefer Hillmans over the Split-Jaw variety. I have never had an issue with breakage of the Hillmans so assume as Steve has stated the design was altered to suit the stainless rail web.

Another brand I tried with success was the Uncle Hermes type. While brass and designed for the smaller cross section web brass rail (and NOT for stainless), I have used them successfully on my stainless rail. While Ridge Road was operating I had no problem sourcing the Hillman brand, but alas with at least two changes of ownership (I believe now back with the family), it seemed supply dried up and I had to look elsewhere.

I had no interest in the clamps that use four screws to secure the rail. I feel that these are not adequate for the job as retention is down to the underside of a screw head only. I prefer the full clamp retention.,

#12

TO ALL:

MANY THANKS for your contributions.

At this point, my decision is to order and use one of the screw-clamp brands and report the results.
However, the Split-Jaw ad in December’s Garden Railways indicates it is for sale. Hopefully, the sale will happen ensuring the continuance in production.

My past practice…
My jumper soldering frustrations were not remedied by using a Weller 250 watt soldering gun. The heating time is 10 seconds per solder per rail end – if lucky. Scrape 'n flux and solder was the regimen.
I used a very small flat blade screw driver to scrape the rail ends prior to the flux. At any rate, everyone knows the process…
Wendell

#13

Wendell Hanks said:

TO ALL:

My past practice…
My jumper soldering frustrations were not remedied by using a Weller 250 watt soldering gun. The heating time is 10 seconds per solder per rail end – if lucky. Scrape 'n flux and solder was the regimen.
I used a very small flat blade screw driver to scrape the rail ends prior to the flux. At any rate, everyone knows the process…
Wendell

Not to be argumentative but apparently everyone doesn’t know the process or they would never use a 250 watt soldering gun to try to solder jumpers to rails.

Rick

#14

OK Steve and Tim; I’ll concede that Hillman fixed the problem. By that time I had switched to the all stainless split Jaw and never looked back. I don’t mean to turn this into a Ford Vs Chevy debate and it really isn’t because the designs are very different. I just prefer the way the SJ’s work.

#15

Rick-
You are not argumentative, just right!

I needed to say “that process” that everyone, with any experience, knows is labor intensive at best. At one time I didn’t know. Use of the small heating head of the gun simply does not displace enough heat to prevent a time consuming process. Unfortunately, after completion of the now dismantled track I learned of other soldering guns.

At any rate, I’ll give the clamps a try – I will out of default as I have nearly 40’ of stainless (Aristo) track to also install.

#16

I found your comment about the rail clamps you use to be most informative for me, Dave. I have been very happy with the Aristo rail clamps which are similar to the ones you are using. It is nice to know someone else is making that style clamp now that Aristo is leaving us!

Ed

#17

Wendell Hanks said:

Rick-
You are not argumentative, just right!

I needed to say “that process” that everyone, with any experience, knows is labor intensive at best. At one time I didn’t know. Use of the small heating head of the gun simply does not displace enough heat to prevent a time consuming process. Unfortunately, after completion of the now dismantled track I learned of other soldering guns.

At any rate, I’ll give the clamps a try – I will out of default as I have nearly 40’ of stainless (Aristo) track to also install.

Wendell,

With all tools and materials at hand jumper wires can be soldered to rails and together about as fast as clamps can be installed and one heck of a lot cheaper. Don’t have exact numbers to hand but would guesstimate about 10 cents per track section verses the best price of a pair of clamps.

If your implying that stainless rail can’t be soldered that is just another “garden railroad urban legend” it can be soldered quite easily to itself and to jumper wires.

I have always felt that someone should do a good how to video about soldering for the garden railroader because there is such a mess of misinformation and urban legend surrounding the subject.

Later

Rick

#18

I agree with Rick

I hard soldered all my (clean new brass) rail with a mini torch and 60/40 core solder …for the dirty rail repairs I scrub it and use Napa liquid flux

http://www.blazerproducts.com/tools/gb2001.html

#19

Rick and David –

Yipes! Yes, I am a product of the urban legends. I had NO idea that I could solder the Aristo stainless rail with jumpers by using a small torch - e.g. the Blazer cited by David.

So thanks for the input that soldering is feasible and to the contrary need not be time consumptive. The Blazer torch option was totally unknown to me – and likely others.

Now that you both have opened a big door for me and other readers, please offer more data regarding these questions:

1 - The Blazer website stated “NOT FOR HOME USE” - are there skills needed beyond experience with a canister torch?

2 - Using the Blazer torch on stainless, same process as on brass rail? Specific solder mix?

3- What cautions on preventing melting the ties - apparently, you both are able to avoid what I have continually been warned as to why a torch is not to be used.

4 - What is it I didn’t ask that is important? Any literature needed to be read?

Thanks again – you have opened a BIG door.

Wendell

#20

Jon Radder said:

OK Steve and Tim; I’ll concede that Hillman fixed the problem. By that time I had switched to the all stainless split Jaw and never looked back. I don’t mean to turn this into a Ford Vs Chevy debate and it really isn’t because the designs are very different. I just prefer the way the SJ’s work.

Well, Jon, some folks swear by the Split Jaw, others swear at them. There’s no accounting for taste, is there.

:slight_smile:

Me? I like them both, I just can’t find the off size allen wrench for the split jaw.