Mark V said:
Well it seems I have a few choices…
Listen to the same crowd of detractors playing the same old tune of ‘Brand X stinks’ until they can gloat on the death/near death experience of a major manufacturer…
This does seem to be a popular sport for some in the hobby.
I wonder if this goes on in other scales, or if it’s mostly a “G” scale thing?
Mark V said:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
I’m not concerned, not at all concerned…
Eight comments in two pages would suggest otherwise…
I was just relaxing and I’m still relaxing.
Basically what is issued by Aristo reminds me very much of an essay in a Creative Writing 101 course.
It’s a start until we see better stuff.
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
It’s a start until we see better stuff.
True words there.
Ralph Berg said:
It addressed a few questions, and created a few more!
The statement about the building line…very confusingIt also appears they will be handing off the promotion of the ECLSTS to someone else.
The copyright statement…very paranoid.
If you’re trying to set the record straight, why try to discourage people from quoting the statement?
BTW, it is perfectly legal to quote from the statement
Ralph
Because it reads like this to me: “Please everyone remain calm, we are experiencing technical difficulties. Your safety is our top priority and you are not in danger.” When in fact the ship is taking on more water than the pumps can get out. My Opinion of why they claim, it is copyrighted material and don’t want it qouted or copied. Problem is, if it is sourced properly or linked then it is not a violation of copyright. Honestly seems like a call for attention and diversion. Either way, the world wont end.
BASHING. Who is bashing who
Business rule 1. You need the customer. The customer does not need you. No matter insolant the customer is, you shut your trap and go home,drink a few shots of scotch, go to bed and forget it. Attacking the customers such as TATE(Lewis) did was not only uncalled for and unprofessional but unethical.
Secondly, having an employee do your dirty work speaks a million words about your integrity.
Business rule 2. You may have the best mouse trap in the world, But, if you can’t market it, no one will use it. When Lewis publicly blamed and bashed his retailers for his poor business decisions. He was lost. He did not have a monoply, thus, the retailers moved their customers to other manufactures which supported them.
Integrity? TATE has lead us to believe that they will be getting to full containers of merchandise. Scott publicly noted due to financial issues, we should expect to see little in the way of new inventory.
Integrity? TATE says Polk enterprises is well and healthy. Scott publicly, noted to return to healthy conditions, he would need a “$1 Million dollar investor”.
Do we want AC to go under? NO We all as customers have a stake in their success. I have well over $10K of their products and maintain an additional $5-7K for charitable organizations. The ability to maintain this equipment depends large upon the success of AC
Thomas those are excellent points. Personally the trouble I have is that the story keeps changing depending on which fire they are trying to control. And blaming everyone but the actual cause goes clear back to the problems with the Pacific/Mikado. After years of excuses and blaming customers and dealers its very easy to get jaded by any new information. I certainly do not want to see them go away, but we have to remember that we the customer didn’t drive the company to the problems they currently have. They got there well under their own actions. Thats why I am having EPL deja-vu all over again. I suppose the only reason Bachmann has been able to weather all its QC screwups is that they are a subsidiary of Kader, which is a massive company and can absorb some severe bumps …EPL and AC not so easy to do that unscathed.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mZxXB4k6L6c/Tlg5CjimjYI/AAAAAAAAD-E/tPj5HPEiE3c/s400/dejavu2.jpg)
Ray Dunakin said:
Mark V said:
Well it seems I have a few choices…
Listen to the same crowd of detractors playing the same old tune of ‘Brand X stinks’ until they can gloat on the death/near death experience of a major manufacturer…
This does seem to be a popular sport for some in the hobby.
I wonder if this goes on in other scales, or if it’s mostly a “G” scale thing?
Ray, regrettably it goes on in other scales as well; and that’s one reason why I lost interest in first the boards and then the scales concerned.
I know I don’t have to read this thread, and I’m not a newbie, but I do wonder the effect on people starting out when there is constant criticism of everything the two major manufacturers do. Now, I’ve got absolutely no experience of Aristo although I wish them well as I want to see as much activity as possible in the Hobby.
However I do have quite a lot of experience with Bachmann (and a host of small players, most of them based in the UK although of course I’m Australian) and to be quite frank I’ve got little but admiration for what I can buy from them for the $ compared to what it costs to buy to an equivilant standard in smaller scales. And, with quite a number of Bachmann products in my stable I have had precisely one QC problem (a distorted bogie on a Mogul) which they fixed as fast as the postal service allowed them to. I wish that I got that good a service in the rest of life! Yet, to read the forums, you would think they were a pack of ininterested swine who are out to do in the poor customer.
No wonder sales of G scale equipment are declining with that kind of thing appearing when somebody googles!
There have been so many problems over the years with products from both AC and Bachmann the mind boggles.
Bachmann manage to pick up some of them immediately, like the loose counterweights on the K-27 which were fixed very fast. But then they completely ignored the first run Shay until they actually inspected stock of the Shay in their warehouse, upon which they then understood those complaining were not making it up. Eventually replacement metal trucks were made available.
It only took them about 10+ years to get around to the cracking Connie gear problem.
AristoCraft on the other hand are continually getting problems which they usually simply deny exist. Some problems were so bad, eg the slipping drivers on the Mikado and Mallet, they made promises they would fix them, and they did, which must have cost them a bundle under warranty what with all the shipping involved. That problem has now been resolved, sort of, by redesigning the drive.
It is no wonder the consumers are a bit peeved. It is only the chickens coming home to roost.
Tony Walsham said:
Snip…It is no wonder the consumers are a bit peeved. It is only the chickens coming home to roost.
Seems to me many consumers are quite happy with Aristo but tire of the vultures hounding them. I have very little Aristo, but what I have has been trouble free. Same said for Bachmann. Cannot say the same for the “golden child” USA but I don’t hound the company on the forums either (one issue with one NIB loco needing a new motor block).
I readily see the issues but come here looking for advise or fixes, not a continual series of threads that do nothing but whine. There are those who 'drink the koolaid and those who poison it.
I don’t see (most of) this as bashing at all. For the most part people are just trying to make some sense of a lot of conflicting information.
I for one do not wish to see Aristo, or any LS manufacturer go away. I’m hopeful that Aristo can get over their problems and get back to the business of selling LS.
We have seen major shortages in Aristo’s lines before, like track not being in good supply for the annual track sale. Simple analysis says that there are not enough dollars to invest in all the inventory items needed to keep a smooth flow of product.
As for the Revo system; It is very unfortunate that a well accepted R/C system can not keep up with demand. I was recently asked to recommend a system for a first time conversion to battery R/C. If it wasn’t for the supply issue I would have recommended Revo based on this person’s want list. I wonder how much market share lack of supply has cost them in the last few years.
Mark V… calling people out on denying the truth is not bashing.
Aristo has denied almost every major issue they have had. If you don’t know this, then either you woke up yesterday, or you cannot read.
If you need help finding the posts on the Aristo forum where Lewis denies any problems with slipping drivers, miswiring, wheel plating, I’'ll be happy to give you the links.
This age old twisting of words, taking anything not complimentary to be “bashing” just does not wash.
Do you actually own any Aristo products, and if so can you honestly say you have NEVER seen any of these issues so vehemently denied?
Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
Mark V… calling people out on denying the truth is not bashing.
Aristo has denied almost every major issue they have had. If you don’t know this, then either you woke up yesterday, or you cannot read.
If you need help finding the posts on the Aristo forum where Lewis denies any problems with slipping drivers, miswiring, wheel plating, I’'ll be happy to give you the links.
This age old twisting of words, taking anything not complimentary to be “bashing” just does not wash.
Do you actually own any Aristo products, and if so can you honestly say you have NEVER seen any of these issues so vehemently denied?
Greg
Seriously Greg…Do you even read my posts before commenting or does your hatred of Aristo go so far as to blind you to anything else…Please answer that.
Read Greg, I stated I have little but have never had an issue. If you are going to tell me that cutie little ditties about “Polkie Boy”, “Kool-Aide Drinkers” and other slams against those who own the product are not “bashing” than you are either being deliberately obtuse or ignorant.
I have in my possession a U-25, RS-3, Dash 9, and an FA. All but the Dash 9 have served me without issue for years. The FA was purchased in less than perfect condition but has no operational issues. The Revolution is my choice for control system. Of course I do have an assortment of rolling stock.
Also bud, show me where I “vehemently deny” anything…Show me! I do not. I simply state I tire of the overly negative and overly positive.
So as a fellow engineer Greg, I ask you look at the “data” before shooting your mouth off eh?
Edit: When I say the Dash 9 has not served me well for years it is because I just received it…Honestly love the thing.
Greg Elmassian said:
Aristo has denied almost every major issue they have had. If you don’t know this, then either you woke up yesterday, or you cannot read.
Greg
That’s a good one Greg, especially considering you did not even read my post before making this judgment. You could not have read it or you would not have made such a foolish assumption. Again Greg, show me one place where I state there are no problems at Aristo? Can you? Show me one place where I bash another member for their choice in model trains…Just one Greg, just one.
Deep breath, everyone…
I have 500 pages on my web site… most of it large scale. Please read under “Aristo motive power” and you can see pictures and explanations for everything.
Please judge for yourself if I am bashing or this is real, factual, measurable, documented information. I won’t try to convince you here.
Try reading this page and see if you believe I am presenting real information, AND ways to work around the problems I have found.
I won’t enter any more personal stuff, and won’t react to the “shooting your mouth off” comment.
The facts stand for themselves:
http://www.elmassian.com/trains/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips/aristo-motive-power/prime-mover-basics
Regards, Greg
p.s. I have a lot more experience with Aristo than just 4 locos, and you would not believe how many people I help and work with “offline” This is real information, not just rantings of an arm-chair modeler (I’m not pointing that comment at anyone)
p.p.s I apologize to Bob and Mark V… I should not have made that personal aspersion about reading… back to the facts…
screw terminals…
Never once have I accused you of bashing (Though on 2nd thought my last post may have implied it)…As you say, stating facts is not bashing.
My last statement on the mater here…“Kool-Aid Drinkers”, “Red Box Brigade”, and the like are indeed bashing, and openly tolerated here. Those are the posts I refer to, not yours.
“My last statement on the mater here…“Kool-Aid Drinkers”, “Red Box Brigade”, and the like are indeed bashing, and openly tolerated here.”
And that’s probably why you never see manufacturers posting to sites like this (or advertising on them)…
The only problem is have with any of Aristo trains are crappy pickup on the 0-4-0 but it is small loco and short range on the Starter Set Train Engineer. Oh and track screws not fitting in holes. My Pacific, RS-3 and rolling stock have thus been problem free. The pickup issue should go away on the next run since the tender will have power pickup for the motor. All of my trains are Aristo except one boxcar.
Reading all the reply s reminds me of when I first went to work for the RR and all the old guys would set around at lunch time and just think of ways to trash where they work and what they even bought then. Just to many folks here having way to much time on there hands to come up with all the suppositions. Later RJD
