Large Scale Central

Power for train displays

I do 1 or 2 portable displays a year. A display will have 4 - 8 tracks, depending on how creative I am at the time.

I am looking for ways to reduce electrical hookup time.

I use track power.
There are usually 1 or two point to point tracks (split jaw reversing units).
I have an assortment of aristo 10 amp as well as some smaller aristo & lgb supplies.
I try to have a little redundancy in case of equipment failure.
Bridgewerks 4 track units are nice, but a bit out of my leage$$$$.
This is my hobby, the only $ involved are mine.

Any thoughts?

Its a little hard to picture the set up, do you have any photos?

I have used insulated automotive blade connectors in the past when I needed to disconnect sections for moving.

Boat trailer connectors work good too. 4 wires, handle good current loads, cheap and readily available. Any multiple output supply you consider will be pricey. Fixed supplies that will work can be found surplus quite cheaply, but then you need speed control; and they ain’t cheap.

Out club does several outings a year, and the largest this year had 21 independent loops. Our electrical guru uses simple automotive male and female spade connectors, always putting the male on one leg (say positive) and the female on the other (negative). We also have an interchange with will accommodate switching transfers between four of the loops. If I am not mistaken, all the interconnection between our power supplies/TEs is 16ga speaker wire. We have had as large as 45 x 90 feet with a single track connection for each loop. We use the four screw flat plate stainless steel ‘Conductors’ sold by SanVal http://www.san-val.com/ . We have a bucket full of pigtails consisting of a ring terminal on one end and the spade connector on the other with about 6-12 inches of wire. The ring lug terminal gets attached under one of the screws on the conductor. These are located by the electrical guru at the time the track is being assembled. After we finish the mechanical assembly, he does his thing connecting between the controller and the track. The guru has a box full of various lengths of interconnecting wire, making it short work to connect between the control station and the track. This picture

(http://www.ecgrc.com/images/dalton22.jpg)

will give you a concept of the size. This layout at the 2009 South East Garden Railway Show took us about 6 hours to put together with trains running. There is a total of about 1800 feel on the floor in that photo. I wish I had better photos of the layout and how the electrical is made up. I hope the description is enough. Bob C.

Thanks for the replies. Interesting, thats a large display. 6 hours, how many man hours? The displays I do are smaller. Inside, I have 3 pieces of carpet for 12x36. If not using the carpet, they can be bigger. Target audiences - we’ve gone to a rec center, the local public library, retirement communities and a garden center. logistics is my biggest problem. Storing, moving, setup, tear down, moving, storing. While I usually have help, it takes a lot of energy to pull off. man hours (setup only) is about 8 + depending on what we are doing. A trailer or truck would solve a lot of issues, but is hardly practical for 1 or 2 displays a year. I am always open for better ways to do things. I will attempt to include pictures…

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/cd/Cristiana.jpg)

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/cd/Esbenshades.jpg)

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/cd/LandisHomes.jpg)

OK now I see. The issue is set up and take down time. I would suggest a short hard wire connection lead at the track with insulated automotive blade and slot connectors to the power pack leads. To make set up/take down even faster by using blade connectors at the pack end. Make theit inermediate lead As long as you think you will need or a bit longer. Any excess can be coiled up. This makes set up as easy as lay track, plug the intermediate lead to the track connector lead then the other end of the intermediate to to pack connectors and your ready to go.

For portable power I have built several Power Packs in plastic tool boxes. The packs include the power supply(s), the controller(s) / booster(s), the throttle(s), power cables and jumper cables. For interconnect flexibility I have followed the lead of most mobile Ham Operators and the NTrak group (http://www.ntrak.org/Documents/NTK_2011_STDS_insertClr.pdf) and used Anderson PowerPole connectors. Three of the larger Packs have been installed in large Stanley FatMax tool boxes. These boxes allow for installation of several power supplies in the bottom of the box below a aluminum shelf which holds the controllers, receivers or boosters. The boxes are designed to hold all the accessories and cables when closed.

My small box for N and HO operation is housed in a 14” tool box and holds 12 VDC, 5 Amp switching power supply, a DigiTrax DCS100, a 400 series throttle, a UR91 Radio Equipped/IR Receiver Unit, a UT4R Simplex Radio Equipped Utility Throttle, Small sections of HO and N track for programming and all the necessary jumper and power cables.

My Big Box includes two paralleled 24 VDC, 25 Amp OEM switching power supplies with the outputs wired to ten sets of color coded, PowerPole 30 Amp connectors ( DC patch panel). The supplies are fed through a 20 Amp detachable IEC power cord and protected with a power switch / circuit in the mains input. The shelf currently holds six Aristo 15 Amp controllers, six 15 Amp Aristo Revolution Base Receivers, six home brew 15 – 20 Amp DCC boosters or a mix of these plugged into the PowerPole connectors as appropriate. The outputs of the “controllers” are also terminated with color coded, PowerPole connectors (Out Put patch panel).

For track powered RC operations jumper cables allow connection of the DC power directly to a loop(s). These jumpers include automotive fuse sockets, usually with 10 Amp fuses. Additional controllers are patched in as needed. The patch panels and cables allow for inserting voltage and / or current meters into the circuits for monitoring or troubleshooting.

With a reserve pile of extension cables with PowerPole connectors already installed, I can setup and breakdown the power pack in under ten minutes, often within five minutes. I am having coffee (and supervising) while the track crew is still laying track. Since the connectors are assembled using a crimp tool, I can assemble or repair a cable in about two minutes.

The link is to a pack I did for the Children’s Museum of Oak Ridge where the pack has to be setup and broken down for each run.

http://photos.logskidder.me/FullScreenPhoto.aspx?gallery=354071&mid=11680799&mt=Photo

Note: The PowerPole connectors, in quantities of ten sets, are no more expensive than good automotive connectors, are more reliable, handle more current, can be panel mounted and provide for color coding of connections.

Clair,

That year I believe there were about 10 people involved in the setup, tear down was similar. 2009 the equipment and track was distributed among several members with large vans and pickups. the following year in 2010 I brought my 20 foot trailer which I made a 16 foot long x 4 foot high enclosure on we loaded all the gear on my rig. The venue allowed us to drive inside right to our area and unload, that took about 1 to 1 1/2 hours. After that it was bout 5 to 6 hours to set up.

Question, do you know the area you are going to take up before you get there? Our layouts are all predetermined before we get to the site, making it faster to set up. A pre plan is always a good thing.

Bob C.

Thanks for all of the feedback. Ken, I like the idea of having the power wired ahead of time. I will give that some more thought. Good point on the planning, I usually have a good idea of the size before hand. The garden center gives me two 6 x 27 foot tables with a 6 foot isle between them. The retirement communities and the library give me an idea of approximate floor size. I’ve enclosed a picture to show my ‘high tech’ planning method. This was for the garden center. In this case the yellow string represents the tables. What is not easily discerned is the elevation. This display had 5 levels as well as 8 bridges. Thanks Clair

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/cd/design1.jpg)

Clair, those are very pretty setups you’re doing! Great Public relations effort on your part, good for you!

I, too, set up displays in public. I’m afraid I’m not very good at watching trains go 'round, so my displays are a little different. They are layouts that kids can run themselves on tables provided at local train shows.

An Inglenook Switching puzzle for the older kids, & beside it for the younger set, a twisted and deformed continuous loop with an alternate route and a couple of trailing point spurs. During the setup I concoct a tunnel from my packing boxes, a blanket and a spare tunnel portal, and add some buildings and trees. Simple, not nearly as pretty as yours, but always a big winner at the shows!

The train on the continuous loop is made up of gondolas only, so the kids can give toy animals and other figures a ride.

As these are indoors where rusting is not a problem, I use Bachmann tinplate track, an enormous help, because it is very lightweight for carrying. However any helpers will need practice as the joiners can be tricky to assemble correctly.

Part of the solution is that I store the track in bundles of tracks ‘pre assembled’ into 4’ lengths and quarter circles. Very convenient. When I need fewer than three curves I can break down one of my quarter circles. I also cobbled together a couple of permanent power connector tracks, basically a slip of phosphor bronze pinched under each rail and a terminal screw thru it and the tie, held by a nut underneath. When I pack up I just wind the wires around the track. Usually wiring it all up is pretty quick and easy.

I really like the little B’mann hand-held throttles - cheap and plentiful - I have cabled up mine to be a little more rugged than they come from stock.

For the Inglenook, which is also Bachmann Tinplate track, but pretty well all long straights, again I bundle this in 4’ lengths. (4’ fits in my car.)

The two elements of my display are packed away individually. The Inglenook requires 8 different freightcars and a pack of matching cards, all of which I pack into a large carton or two.

Like you, I take a couple of spare power supplies along, and spare locos too. I have a couple of volunteers who come along and guide the kids for me, as both displays are too much for one person when little kids are at the controls, and usually the parents want to ask me questions, so usually I’m kept pretty well occupied by the grownups.

I get a little damage each time, nothing that isn’t easily fixed, and I sort of expect it and I don’t mind - a loco bell went missing last time, for example, and I won’t bother replacing it. I use stripped-down equipment, not fine models for this.

I like to give youngsters the experience of actually playing with these fabulous toys!

I was immediately taken by the overall attractiveness of your displays! Good luck with all your efforts! :slight_smile:

Hi John

Thanks for the ‘behind the scences’ on your setups. I always enjoy learning what other people are doing. It is surprising how many people either in clubs or personally are involved with doing public displays. Sometimes it is a one time deal, sometimes it is ongoing.

Your switching puzzle is an interesting twist as well as the gondola train to haul the goodies. I usually prefer to turn the trains on and let them run.
However I will usually hand out scavenger hunts. If I can talk people into taking 5 - 10 minutes of their day for some “family time”, I win. I am always watching people to see what catches their attention. For what it is worth, a bunch of hippies with a vw bus and a campfire can upstage a nice industry scene … go figure.

Still looking for ways to do more in less time. Prebuilding sections of track is an interesting thought.

I am not as paranoid with kids touching things as I used to be. And I know “mom” has not a clue the replacement cost of the train her kid is attacking with a light sabre. Giving them the controls…maybe not this week… although I’m sure they would like it.

A few things I’d like to try.
Legos:
get the kids involved by creating buildings or train cars to then be included with the display.
possibly has use as a fund raiser

Trains for a day
With a plan, 3-4 people should be able to do a day with trains.
7:00 - 8:00 Breakfast out, who wants to do trains on an empty stomach if they don’t have to.
8:00 - 10:00 Arrive on site, set up tracks and scenery
10:00 - 3:00 Run trains
3:00 - 4:00 tear down and pack up

If everyone knows what they are bringing and what needs done, I think this could work well and make for an enjoyable day.

Sounds good, Clair…

I feel that you have to have something for people to actually DO, and more and more exhibitors seem to be getting this, but you’re right, one has to get over one’s paranoia. I was lucky, I guess, and never had much to begin with!

Once I committed a small portion of my gear to these displays of mine it was easy to stop worrying. Any of my really good stuff is still at home and intact, out of harm’s way, remember!

I find the parents are often more nervous than the kids - and 'way more nervous than I am; they hover, afraid the kid may screw up or break something. At first I often have to convince them that I’m not very concerned, and that no matter what their kid does it’ll probably be OK.

It’s a shame that so few youngsters have had any experience at all nowadays of a simple train controller and have to be shown everything, (especially how to stop!), but that’s how it is.

My own grandchildren have been running my garden Railroad since they were three or four years old. By far most of the kids at the shows are older than that.

I occasionally get young visitors here at home as well. They get to wear my engineer’s hat and run my trains.

I remember playing with Lionel toy trains on the floor as a kid … I think this kind of experience- of controlling your own imaginary little land is likely the only way to give them the experience that may turn them onto this, the BEST hobby in the whole wide world!

Clair,

Those are some pretty elaborate set ups! When we discussed the displays, I did not picture them so nicely detailed! you set those up in 2-3 hours!?

When you set up the tracks, do you screw them together? I think you said, but I don’t recall at the moment. For my ‘temporary’ layout using LGB slip joiners, I mounted the tracks to boards with the end of the track hanging about 4" over the end. In this way, the ties directly around the joiners are supported. Also, this proved to work well when placing the track directly on the ground. You might have noticed this track in the basement when we went down there.

Giving the people something to do is interesting. Takes me back to the Lionel and American Flyer days with buttons and automation. I can have anywhere from 0 to 20+ kids at a time. The garden center can be up to 2/3 people deep. Up unitl now, we’ve used various things to catch their interest - scavenger hunt, custom cars for local companies, live flowers and the egg liner. Still processing the “things to do part”. Kids do like activity type things. The retirement community folks are quite happy just talking to some one.

Mark,

Good to hear from you again. I really enjoyed seeing what you were up to.
Guess I will have to break down and get some sound, maybe even try some custom painting.

Times can be misleading.

The display in the bottom picture was done at Landis Homes. Setup time there was approx 3-4 hours for 2 people or 6-8 man hours. Most everything was onsite and in the room. There we set up on a friday morning, and ready to run by lunch. The adult day care may watch part of the setup and be there early afternoon when we start to run. Friday evening/Saturday morning we run for the residents then tear down. Child day care was upset last time that they were not notified we would be there. So I assume if we go again, there will be kids involved as well.

The Lititz library setup is similar to the Landis Homes one. That is usually about the first week of december.
Their PR person is excellent. It is short hours in a comfortable setting.

The display in the middle picture was at Esbenshade’s Garden Center. Setup time there is approx 5-6 hours for 8 - 10 people. Probably a total of 40 - 50 man hours. Again not counting planning, prep and moving time. We have done that display about 5 times. If we do it, we set up tuesday the week of Thanksgiving, run Wed, Fri and Sat. Tear down sunday. They have a special event the evening of black friday. It gets a bit crazy then.

We use split jaw rail clamps - would need to change hours to days if we tried those little aristo screws.
The LGB slip joiners take me back to the American Flyer and HO days where an occasional track misshap was norm. To be honest I’ve not tried that route, maybe I should. It would definately be faster setup.

I suspect mounting tracks on boards would help setting up in grass or with prebuilt sections of track. The far end of the spectrum of tracks/scenery on boards moves into doing diorama’s and modules. Definately a lot of choices and options.

I do a small (3-4 track) display at a local, mostly small-scale train show every year. I use Aristo-Craft 10 amp transformers with a Train Engineer receiver per track and a single transmitter. The outermost track uses a MTH DCS system to run the Big Boy.

(https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/329186_301197099893785_1366331160_o.jpg)

This method seems to work for me–I use a single power strip with all transformers running on it with LGB track connectors for each track. It takes me about 2-2.5 hours to set the whole thing up, from car arrival to all trains operational. I do bring a small spare transformer and a battery loco in case of total system failure, but thus far it’s worked fine. EDIT: A better photo from the previous year before I acquired long enough wires to run all the tracks from a less-messy cable management setup:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/55055_167576703255826_7322335_o.jpg)

I have set up on the floor like Robbie’s pic above, and on tables provided by show management - I couldn’t carry any in my little car.

I definitely prefer to have tables. This seems to go over much better with everyone else involved as well, BTW. I’d recommend doing it on tables if you have the choice.

For the trains, by the way, I have standardized on hook and loop couplers.

This may surprise you, but I find they are much easier for both kids and adult novices to understand.

At first I used knuckle couplers, Kadees, B’manns and Aristos, but I was spending practically all my time demonstrating the darn things or helping somebody - adult or kid - who couldn’t figure them out. Nowadays I don’t have to say a word; folks just get the couplers without any help. That has been a huge payoff for me.

I have gone with LGB’s original concept - both a hook and loop on one end, but just a loop on the other. All cars are thus what I call ‘polarized’. Maybe there’s an official moniker for this, but I’ve never heard of one. Polarized cars are much easier to uncouple with fingers than cars with two hooks. If you have two hooks you can provide a popsicle stick uncoupler, but you’ll have to demonstrate it… I wouldn’t bother. I’ve become pretty proficient at removing and discarding exactly one-half of my coupler hooks!

B’mann/LGB - style hook and loops are far easier to operate than Aristos, BTW. You just have a little tab to press down on. Not so with Aristos…

Hi Robbie

Thanks for sharing the pics. I always like seeing what other people are doing. Is amazing how many people either do or are thinking about doing a project like that. A display like that can be set up most anywhere. A few years back I saw some large scale track on a flat car. Apparently someone had a display there for awhile. Do you have track issues using the LGB connectors? Seems that would be a faster setup than the screws with split jaw rail clamps.

John - interesting comment on the tables. That seems about 1 step away from modules. Then again I can relate to the little car.

Just curious, do you have any “must includes” (things that worked well) and any “never agains” (things that didn’t work so well).

Clair Dise said:
Hi Robbie Thanks for sharing the pics. I always like seeing what other people are doing. Is amazing how many people either do or are thinking about doing a project like that. A display like that can be set up most anywhere. A few years back I saw some large scale track on a flat car. Apparently someone had a display there for awhile. Do you have track issues using the LGB connectors? Seems that would be a faster setup than the screws with split jaw rail clamps. John - interesting comment on the tables. That seems about 1 step away from modules. Then again I can relate to the little car. Just curious, do you have any “must includes” (things that worked well) and any “never agains” (things that didn’t work so well).

Hi Clair, I started doing Train Displays about 5 years ago and have found some tricks to making things go faster for setup and tear down. We do about 8 to 10 shows a year and the best investment that I made was a cheap Trailer to store the show stuff in. 2nd buy some Train Li rail clamps like these,

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/nicholas_savatgy/_forumfiles/clamps2.jpg)

They work much better and quicker then split jaws for show purposes and you can just leave them on the rails when your thru at the shows so your ready for the next one. The next thing I would get is some Hermans Rail wire connectors, These work great and setup fast. They can be found on Ebay.

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/nicholas_savatgy/_forumfiles/clamps1.jpg)

Our usual set up is on the floor about 30ft by 80 ft http://youtu.be/TCeibPUQ5jM Setup time varies depending on the number of helpers we have but usually about 4 to 8 hours. If I could tell you anything it would be make sure you tell everyone thats helping you ahead of time what you need them to do during setup and tear down, also make sure they know ahead of time what they need to bring and also BE ON TIME…I had a lot of issues with this till I had to make some changes in club members and then it was solved. The BIGGEST RULE I have is, you can run as long as you help with setup or tear down, we use to have some members that showed up about 10 am, Ran there trains for a couple of hours and went home. This wasnt fair to the people that spent all the time preparing the display so those other members that showed up just to run are no longer with the club. The last show we tried to setup on 25 tables to save a little on our backs, It worked out well so i was donated 40 old 8ft tables we are rehabbing and will most likely be doing the table setups from here on out. http://youtu.be/uxLdQP9g1kI In closing just have fun with it and enjoy the Trains, Heres a few photos as well. Nick

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/nicholas_savatgy/_forumfiles/nic1.JPG)

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/nicholas_savatgy/_forumfiles/nic2.JPG)

Hi Nicholas
Thanks for the reply. I liked the video’s. The long trains were great. I usually don’t cover that much area so the trains are shorter.

A few questions, If you don’t mind.
What is the green covering over the tables?
What size curves is the club using?
How are the posts made that hold the string(crowd control)

Thanks all for the responses, it has been helpful.
Clair