Large Scale Central

Plastic sheet materiel

Modeling
#1

So off and on we have this discussion and I am wanting to consolidate some of my thoughts and assumptions before spending a lot of money.

Craig has me turned onto buying full sheets of Styrene. And this is fine and dandy for most things. And very well maybe what I stick with. I am using .125 thick materiel for the challenge and it is working better than I expected. However I still want to explore some other things. In y googling and from what others have mentioned here there seems to be some options.

Plain Styrene
Sintra
Gatorfoam
Gatorplast.

I like styrene. I am familiar with it, have bunches of it, and it is easy to work with and weld with MEK. So sticking with pure sheets of styrene at this point is preferable. My only issue at this point is that even at .125 its thin I worry about the longevity of the seems (even being welded) holding up. Smaller buildings this will not likely be an issue. But I still thinking a foam core and a thicker materiel wouldbe better in the long run for larger buildings that will have to remain out in the elements (covered when not in use). This brings me to the commercially available foam cored stuff.

Jon recommended Gatorfoam. and I can get it by the sheet. However after doing a bit of looking the gator foam product is a styrene foam core but a plasticized wood fiber paper for the outer surfaces. Not sure I like that. The other product made by the same company is Gatorplast which would honestly be perfect. It is a styrene core with high impact styrene faces. I would immediately jump all over this except my local supplier doesnā€™t carry it (need to check others). The beauty of this stuff is since the faces are styrene, then other pieces of styrene can be welded to it with MEK and MEK can be used to join the foam board as well.

The final one is Sintra. I know a lot of people love this stuff. And I can buy it by the sheet. It is a PVC product. Now my question with this would be the ability to attach styrene to it. Bob did say you can use PVC cement and it will weld styrene to PVC. Now I have just tried my first experiment witht he challenge and so far it appears that the Styrene and the PVC have indeed melted together and not just merely stuck together. If PVC cement is actually melting the styrene and welding the two plastics together then I think I would be just as fine with the Sintra.

Any thoughts here guys? With the number and sizes of the buildings I would like to create over time I just think a thicker (1/2") or so product would ultimately be best. And while using pink foam board is also an option its limited in what can be stuck to it.

#2

It seems like all of the Sintra (foamed PVC) that I bought measured thickness in mm. If you can get over that, youā€™re all set! :innocent:

The 1/4" (~6 MM) is very easy to cut. the 1/2" not so much, but a knife still does the trick (you just need MORE passes). Also cuts very nicely with a table saw on SLOW setting. (If youā€™re buying sheets, I would suspect this to be the best way to cut it.)

Edit: I guess at my age it should be expected that my math is OFF.

I should have gone here FIRST: mm to inches | millimeters to inches converter
:grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

#3

My Harlem Transfer building is built with all Sintra, 1/4" and 1/8", and has held up since 2011, being outside May-October. You can see that the unsupported wall in the front here has warped a little. I should back that with some 1x2 Azek. And the top trim has cracked off in a couple places.

image

#4

Yeah, I think you may find that the 1/4" thickness is more than enough. 1/2" sounds good, (and it is, but probably OVERKILL) but if you are REALLY worried about warping your best bet is to glue a reinforcing section of the 1/4" perpendicular to the wall. This piece can be less than an inch wide and I typically have it go the length of the building side.

#5

Devon,
I think a lot comes down to whatā€™s available to use here in the PNW vs the East Coast and cost wise. If cost was no option, my first choice wonā€™t be styrene or PVC but rather RemShape
https://www.freemansupply.com/products/machinable-media/renshape-modeling-and-styling-boards/renshape-460-medium-high-density-modeling-board

This stuff is amazing, but costs a small fortune.

I think of PVC sheets as the poor manā€™s version of RemShape. Iā€™m talking solid PVC sheets that those East Coast guys can get at the local big box store for cheap. Our 1x12 pieces.

Next Iā€™d say foamed PVC. Itā€™s got layers that are embossable, but Iā€™m not sure what would happen if you tried to carve past the ā€˜outsideā€™ layer. Again hard to find for us in the PNW, and is fairly expensive compared to styrene.

In my experience with 1/8" styrene, Iā€™ve had no issues long term. Iā€™ve even had a piece of styrene that yellowed due to UV exposure and it was fine. If you want thicker pieces, Iā€™d say laminate styrene to PVC trim boards.

#6

Well, available wherever fine products are soldā€¦yet delivered by Amazon (should be everywhere, right), not cheap, but delivered to your door! Irā€™a pretty nice to have pre-cut sheets.

#7

I think I meant to say Gatorplast. What I have tested outdoors is definitely styrene on the outside.

1 Like
#8

I assumed you meant to say that. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

#9

i just need to sit down with some plastic and play. I really donā€™t want to reinvent the wheel. And I agree with Craig that its a matter of what is available. For me that seems to be styrene sheets or Sintra. Both I can get in single sheets. IF I can get a weld I am satisfied with then I can put this to bed. I do like the idea of Sintra and its ability to be carved.

#10

A solvent welder that I have never used is the Plastruct PPC2 plastic welder. As mentioned here and in my googling this should bond the two just fine. Really need to start messing around.

#11

Going down this rabbit hole even further I just looked up the MSDS sheet for Plastruct PPC2. And it has two ingredients. MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) 5-15% by weight and Methylene Chloride (Dichloromethane) 80-90% by weight.

Assuming since my straight MEK is worthless on PVC I can only assume that the Dichloromethane is what is melting the PVC in this solvent. Now where can I buy that crap? lol

#12

Here?

Or on Amazon?
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=methylene+chloride+solvent&adgrpid=55725710573&gclid=Cj0KCQiAw8OeBhCeARIsAGxWtUwsYKK1tumC43MGMKuTdYM8r6bJmSYjBoaEwO1ZY072bLYDL7tVlyEaAlSYEALw_wcB&hvadid=274704400781&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=9061299&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=3813625517863760861&hvtargid=kwd-488618107632&hydadcr=19904_9710279&tag=hydsma-20&ref=pd_sl_8gzx1yn7e2_e

1 Like
#13

Yep. Already considering buying some to play with.

#14

Apparently it used to be sold in stores as a paint stripper. But the ruling say nothing as a plastic ā€œglueā€ Final Rule on Regulation of Methylene Chloride in Paint and Coating Removal for Consumer Use | US EPA

#15

Now this is really interestingā€¦

"
Notable Applications:
ā€¢ Paint stripper and degreaser
ā€¢ Used to decaffeinate coffee and tea in the food industry
ā€¢ Used to manufacture pharmaceuticals and other medicines

So decaffeinated stuff is really just caffeine with this stuff added? Makes one wonder :thinking:

#16

The most-common methods of decaffeination involve chemical solvents, usually ethyl acetate or methylene chloride. In the direct method, the coffee beans are steamed and then rinsed repeatedly with the chemical solvent to flush away the caffeine. In the indirect method, the chemical agent never touches the beans but treats the caffeine-laden water in which the beans have been soaked for hours. After the caffeine is removed from the water with the solvent, the bean-flavored solution is reintroduced to the beans, allowing many of the oils and flavors to be reabsorbed. In both processes the solvents are rinsed or evaporated out of the green beans and further vaporize upon roasting, meaning that only the tiniest trace amounts (which are deemed safe for consumption) are ever present in the decaffeinated beans you purchase.

#17

Good thing I donā€™t drink coffee. Or any decaffeinated beverages. :joy:

Interesting to find out how food stuff is made. Just earlier today I learned that human bones used to be a part of the sugar cane refining process. :thinking:

#18

Most of us would likely starve to death if we actually understood our food. Having worked in the meat industry (kinda) and having a personal interest in curing meats its astonishing what is used to produce our meat.

Check out "meat glue"i always wondered how they made the processed ham in a casing. No piece of a pig is shaped like that or has a muscle that looks like that. Well thanks to meat glue you can take scraps of pork, cure it, add glue, and put it in a casing and it solidifies into that shape. Hmm interesting.

#19

But not very appetizing :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

#20

I believe Ray Dunakin has had many buildings with styrene bits and bobs glued to the Sintra sheet product he uses.
weld on16 is the glue he has recommended