Fred Mills, BSc, BS, SD (Hons) said:
Ralph ?
Just kidding Fred (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
Our ECLSTS trips are out of sync.
Ralph
Curmudgeon mcneely said:
Or just simply copy the late, great John Allen and have a stegosaurus as a switch engine…no specific scale.
'cept your avatar would probably try to eat the stegosaurus, mr. mcneely (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
I think someone asked earlier if there was actual standard gauge F scale about, for anyone who’s not found it already, Cumberland Model Engineering seems to be the general clearing house for info and parts (but by no means the only supplier).
http://www.cumberlandmodelengineering.com/
the site also includes galleries/info on various similar sized options and is definitely worth a surf about if you haven’t seen it before.
F as opposed to 2.5" does seem to be a more or less exclusively US phenomena. There’s a surprising amount of 2.5" gauge about in UK and Europe, partly I suspect because transporter wagons and interchange facilities make such appealing models.
My favourite ‘odd’ gauge is the 14" one UK amusement park line was laid to. Story goes that the council decided to build a line and simply gave the job of laying it out the county surveyor. Correct calculation of levels, inclines, proper drainage etc was no problem, but the inevitable happened with the rails, and they were laid at 15" centres. When the 15" gauge loco - from memory a Severn-Lamb C-16esq petrol mechanical - turned up they were fortunate there was enough space underneath to narrow the gauge.
IIRC, the loco is still about, regauged back to 15". Don’t remember if that was when the original line closed, or if the line was also eventually relaid in line with convention.
J.
‘There’s a surprising amount of 2.5" gauge about in UK and Europe, partly I suspect because transporter wagons and interchange facilities make such appealing models.’
Are you getting confungled here? 2.5" gauge is the smallest Model Engineering gauge used for passenger-hauling on raised track. In UK, the so-called Model engineering gauges are
2.5" gauge - 1/2" to the foot scale - ostensibly equates to the US 1/2" to the foot scale. The smallest practical passenger-hauling scale - no mass-produced models [NMPM]
3.5" gauge - equates to US model engineer gauge 3/4" to the foot scale [NMPM].
5" gauge - equates to US model engineer gauge 1" to the foot scale [NMPM].
7.25" gauge - equates to US 1.5" to the foot scale - also, west of the centre-line of the USA, 7.5" gauge [NMPM].
These scales are the province of those equipped with decent shops and skills to use the equipment found in them, and are considered to be simply full-size locomotives in reduced format.
Although British Gauge 3 runs on 2.5" track, and much of it is undoubtedly the showcase for model-engineering skills [coal-gas-fired models], they do not haul people on raised tracks.
tac
Ottawa Valley GRS
7.25" Scale Society Member
I’m really late joining this wide ranging discussion, but thought I would throw in my personal take:
My chosen scale is 1:20. I used to specify “1:20.32,” but a gent who was making parts (now out of the business) pointed out that I was taking extra bandwidth to (mostly incorrectly) describe a few thousandths of an inch. Thus my rounding off to 1:20! I do occasionally use the term 'F scale" when I am among my fellow NMRA members.
My partially developed original RR (Boonville Light & Power Co. in 1:20 / 45mm) represents a 3’ gauge operation in the western U.S. It is primarily involved in the construction of a hydro dam and power plant, but also supports logging and mining operations and provides passenger service in support of these enterprises. Most equipment is Bachmann and Accucraft with a small number of kit built cars. This runs on LGB code 332 track.
I have a few lengths of hand-laid 1:20 scale standard (2.78") gauge track that represents the Sequoia Pacific RR in 1:20 / 70.6mm. Saw cut redwood ties, tie plates and code 332 rail. I hope to install this as an interchange with my 3’ gauge, but that end of the layout is still in the idea and dirt moving stage. I don’t currently have any 1:20 scale standard gauge equipment, but do have several Bachmann 45 tonners waiting to be converted to SG. I have personally measured the SG 45 tonners at the Nile’s Canyon museum and found the Bachmann unit to be very accurate 1:20 scale. I hope to get some Cumberland Engineering http://www.cumberlandmodelengineering.com/CMEProductsKits.html kits to go with my SG locomotive(s).
I also have some PECO 32mm gauge track and turnouts, belonging to the Navarro Engineering & Construction Co. in 1:20 / 32mm. It has ties properly spaced for narrow gauge and is very robust. The manufacturer makes this track to represent a 2’ gauge prototype at a scale of 1:19. It will represent a 2’ gauge construction RR on my layout. I have several Binnie Engineering Hudson V-dumps (See: http://www.glendalejunction.co.uk/BinnieEng.html) and am about to order a Lister ‘petrol’ critter from IP Engineering (http://www.ipengineering.co.uk/page73.html) in the UK. The fact that this equipment is 1:19 scale rather than 1:20 bothers me not!
The point is that one scale representing several prototypical gauges can be built using mostly off the shelf equipment. I do have a small sign that I put out during the occasional open house that invites anyone who is offended by my choice of scale, gauge, equipment or other factors to avert their eyes!
Happy RRing,
Jerry
tac Foley said:
‘There’s a surprising amount of 2.5" gauge about in UK and Europe, partly I suspect because transporter wagons and interchange facilities make such appealing models.’
Are you getting confungled here? 2.5" gauge is the smallest Model Engineering gauge used for passenger-hauling on raised track. In UK, the so-called Model engineering gauges are
2.5" gauge - 1/2" to the foot scale - ostensibly equates to the US 1/2" to the foot scale. The smallest practical passenger-hauling scale - no mass-produced models [NMPM]
SNIP.
Although British Gauge 3 runs on 2.5" track, and much of it is undoubtedly the showcase for model-engineering skills [coal-gas-fired models], they do not haul people on raised tracks.
tac
Ottawa Valley GRS
7.25" Scale Society Member
I should maybe have specified electric as well as steam propulsion. There’s a definite degree of interest and support for scenic gauge3/2.5" (or G64 as one manufacturer calls it) as opposed to passenger hauling, even a club. http://gauge3.org.uk/ RTR engines and stock are on the thin side, and tend to be batch produced rather than continuously catalogued, but they do exist. J.
Thank you for reminding me how much time I’ve spent over the last decade with the former secretary of the UK Gauge 3 Society and friends at his track near Leicester. Yes, there ARE commercially available Gauge 3 ready-to-run live-steam locomotives - the latest of which will be an A4 - the previous model was ‘Britannia’. The company concerned, Kingscale - see - http://www.kingscalelivesteam.co.uk/ is rightly proud of these beautiful models, especially at around half the price of a similar model made in England by one of our usual Gauge 3 builders. Garden Railway Specialists of Princes Risborough are the leading light in Gauge 3 kits, BTW, in case anybody here is interested, and a new kid on the block is producing a true-scale Class 08 shunter and 20 ton brake van for the rich.
tac
Ottawa Valley GRS
Talk about rubber rulers…
1:24 (1/2"=1’-0") Standard Gauge 4’-8.5" gauge = 2.3542"
1:16 (3/4"=1’-0") Standard Gauge 4’-8.5" gauge = 3.5313"
1:12 (1"=1’-0") Standard Gauge 4’-8.5" gauge = 4.7083"
1:8 (1-1/2"=1’-0") Standard Gauge 4’-8.5" gauge = 7.0625"
…and these ain’t even close to narrow gauge…
Bob “IA3R#7” Cope said:
Talk about rubber rulers…
1:24 (1/2"=1’-0") Standard Gauge 4’-8.5" gauge = 2.3542"
…
…and these ain’t even close to narrow gauge…
But 1:24 is (almost) perfect for 42" NG e.g the Newfie Bullet, “almost” if it runs on 45mm track, perfect if runs on 1.75" track. BTW there are a few more protos for 42" gauge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_ft_6_in_gauge_railways most of them a scratch builder’s dream.
(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)
Hans, you are correct…there are some that are real close. 45mm track for 1:32 is only 1/2" off being perfect standard gauge. and 1:16 is real close to 3.5". However, you did get the point of my post - other than 1:20.32 (3’ narrow gauge) and 1:22.5 (meter gauge) none of the scales are ‘real’ scales. They all mostly follow the ‘ten foot rule’. And for most in the hobby that is OK.
That’s why I refer to 1:32 as “Wide Gauge,” and 1:29 as “Narrow Gauge.” It always livens the discussion. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)
Bob, yes, for my chosen narrow gauge of 40 inches, a scale of 1:22.86 would be most accurate. I chose 1:24 because its easier for me to do calculations for scratch-building, and there is more readily available North American prototype equipment available in 1:24 scale. And yes, I have a rubber ruler around here somewhere. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
David Maynard said:
And yes, I have a rubber ruler around here somewhere. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
Perfect! You can measure these. Doesn’t he who uses the largest win? (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7174/6599496775_2ae3819e11_z.jpg)
So I have heard I think just about every conceivable application of Large Scale scales. Save maybe one. It was offered up that I check out Gn15. this would be 13"ish gauge for us F’ers. Now I haven’t ruled this out I am sure there is some prototypical application on 12" rails. But In brainstorming this S guage track scales out very close to 18". Is anyone using S gauge Fn1.5 maybe. This is a very doable gauge for a small mining loco such as an early electric of compressed air loco. My little micro may find itself representing 3 different 1:20.3 gauges.
REF Todd’s Photo…
Great Western 1340 TROJAN:
Standard Guage (4ft 8 1/2"
Technical details of locomotive 1340:
Length 21ft 1 ins
Boiler pressure of 1340: 120 lbf/sq.in.,
Weight of 1340: 22.5 tons,
Wheel diameter of 1340: 3’ 0’’,
Valve gear of 1340: Stephenson slide valves,
Cylinders of 1340(diameter x stroke): 14" x 20" (O),
Tractive effort of 1340: 11110 lbf.,
Power classification of 1340: Class Unclassified
Devon Sinsley said:
David Maynard said:
Devon, and here is another one for you, Gn15. G scale on HO guage track. There are forums out there devoted to this niche in a niche modeling.
OK that’s getting dang small. According to Wikipedia this minimum gauge scale covers all of the large scale scale on HO track. So Now I need to do F, Fn3, Fn2, and Fn15 (Gn15 1:20.3). Steve already suggested this also.
You missed out 0n3/30. That’s 0 scale of any kind - 1/48th, 1/45th or 1/43 running on 16.5mm track, also, in UK, called 016.5. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
tac
Ross Mansell said:
REF Todd’s Photo…
Great Western 1340 TROJAN:
Technical details of locomotive 1340:
Length 21ft 1 ins
Boiler pressure of 1340: 120 lbf/sq.in.,
Weight of 1340: 22.5 tons,
Wheel diameter of 1340: 3’ 0’’,
Valve gear of 1340: Stephenson slide valves,
Cylinders of 1340(diameter x stroke): 14" x 20" (O),
Tractive effort of 1340: 11110 lbf.,
Power classification of 1340: Class Unclassified
Please add that this little loco is actually standard gauge.
tac
Ottawa Valley GRS
Although this loco is liveried as Great Western it only ran for the old GWR for a very short time - nine years - as will be seen from the link info. I am not sure when 1340 was named but a more well known genuine ex GWR loco, 4588, has carried the name Trojan whist in service on a Heritage lines of former metals of the GWR. 4588 has moved to new pastures as she became surplus to requirements, after the expiry of her boiler certificate, particularly as trains have become much longer and heavier in recent years. The name Trojan is presently carried by a small switching diesel which is used to add or detach cars to suit daily traffic flows.
http://www.dartmouthrailriver.co.uk/blog/2015/01/2733/
http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/locos/1340/1340.html
For general interest this link shown the stable mates of 4588. 4588 has not been operational in the last few five or so years awaiting a purchase, which has now happened. The only loco not in use on the DSR at present is 75014 Braveheart which is undergoing a major overhaul> Hopefully she will be soon in service.
tac Foley said:
Devon Sinsley said:
David Maynard said:
Devon, and here is another one for you, Gn15. G scale on HO guage track. There are forums out there devoted to this niche in a niche modeling.
OK that’s getting dang small. According to Wikipedia this minimum gauge scale covers all of the large scale scale on HO track. So Now I need to do F, Fn3, Fn2, and Fn15 (Gn15 1:20.3). Steve already suggested this also.
You missed out 0n3/30. That’s 0 scale of any kind - 1/48th, 1/45th or 1/43 running on 16.5mm track, also, in UK, called 016.5. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
tac
Tac,
I am purposefully avoiding O and its various off shoots. I personally don’t consider O to be in the large scale category. For me in asking the question originally I was considering all of the scales who find its origins in 45mm or for those who want to be difficult Gauge #1. Then from there what off shoots of those scales adopted other track sizes to move up and down gauges while sticking to the original scale like F-Fn3-Fn2.
With that said, before landing on Fn3 I was seriously considering On3 for my narrow gauge modeling but two factors killed that idea. One the limited outdoor application and the three rail issue which I can’t bring myself to. Working with O gauge two rail seemed daunting and still had limited outdoor use. (Yet I am now obsessed with working with 32mm two rail, anyway)
But I do appreciate the O spectrum of modeling and there are some great examples of it out there.
At one point I did consider making the same exact locomotive in every scale: The CR&N #1 in Fn3, On3, HOn3, and Nn3. That was before I had any desire to actually run trains and instead just build them. I gave up, it made my head hurt.
Devon - forgive me for being old and confused, but what’s this three-rail stuff you keep coming out with?
The only three-rail stuff I’ve seen over here is either tin-plate Hornby 0 scale or- VERY exceptionally - a member of the Lionel Trains fan club showing off his layout.
tac
Ottawa Valley GRS