Hey guys, go have a read and then tell me about it, eh!
BTW it is almost like running a roundy-round âlayoutâ, darn, it comes around way too often.
Premature Articulation âŚoh, boy.
FOSU âŚI think some we run into on various fora are guilty of that oneâŚ
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
There are none so deaf as those who will not hear.
Truth is rarely beautiful to the eye or pleasant to the ear.
I have voiced my personal opinion and my personal experience with AC in another post, no need to repeat it here. I do agree that the lack of an advertisement in GR - the major publication for their product - is most certainly not a good indicator. Other rumors and facts seem to lend credence to the allegations that AC is in some form of difficulty. Show me the books and I will tell you how deep.
A close friend once told me the truth will always be born out if you âfollow the moneyâ.
Bob C.
Just FYI:
This could be indicative of problems in Chinaâs manufacturing in generalâŚ
I ordered a car model (new release) from Danbury Mint. Their cars are made in China. First I got a card from them saying all the available models were already reserved and that they would inform me in about six weeks as to when the next shipment would arrive.
About two months later I got a card apologizing for not being able to fill my order at this time and implying that it wouldnât be available in the foreseeable future.
A bit later quite by accident I wandered onto a chatroom for Studebaker fans and they were discussing Danbury Mint. It seems the factory that made the cars had gone bankrupt and that Danbury was trying to find another manufacturer.
Of course this isnât official as my notices from Danbury said nothing about losing the source for their models but it does ring true and perhaps could be related to ACâs problems.
Dave; and everyoneâŚ
It would realy be interesting, for some of us to be able to read and learn from your many many experiences in this wonderful hobby.
For you to start at the beginning; maybe when Bachmann first produced the old original R/C Big Hauler, and everything that came along after, and tell of your experiences. The corrections you came up with, your association with the manufacturers, and how you tried to assist them in improving their products.
It would be nice if you could call on old associates, who used to work for the manufacturers, to collaborate your experiences, and give their views on what has gone on over the years.
This would make a great story, of interest to anyone involved in this Large Scale âExperienceâ.
Some of us, along with you, will be in this part of the Model Railroading hobby for a few more years, but as you say; we have just about everything we need, and can repair and maintain what we have, so our part of the hobby is in no danger of failing us.
It would be nice, once in a while, to be able to treat ourselves to a new item. Something that will fit into our operating and allways alive, operating railroad. Long ago we realised that giant locomotives, and hundred car trains, are not much fun, after they have gone roundy-roundy a few times.We have taken the course of modelling short lines where smaller locomotives, and short trains rule. Our railroads operate, and growâŚproviding new and fun experiences every time we operate. We donât tire of our choice of hobby. It grows with us.
The new and wonderfull âStuffâ that is being produced today is nice to look at, but it easily gets damaged. Storage becomes a problem, while our old LGB, Bachman, Aristo and USTrains 1:24; 1:22.5; and even the earlier 1:29 stuff stands up to use in the real world. We learned that standardising on one make of coupler made life easierâŚwe learned to check wheel gauge, and track gauge, for better operation. But the newer people joining the hobby, seem to arrive with no skills other than a bit of typing on a computer. Most fail to grasp the need to read the books available to solve their own problems, and expect everything, right out of the box to be trouble free, and when it isnât, are stuck without a clue as to what to do.
The fact is, that nothing has really changed. I remember even just after the war, in the late 40âs, a model railroader had to improvise, to keep his Lionel or Marx trains runningâŚeven out of the box. HO and S scales always had their problems, but we learned to fix 'em, ourselves, along with help from our local hobby shop ownersâŚthose were the days !!
I watch newbees starting in the hobby, usually taking advise from fellow newbees, but seldom heeding the advice of more experienced old fartsâŚbecause we are considered old fashioned and behind the times.
Yes, some of us are. Some are afraid to accept new ideas, new technology, because we donât understand it, and are afraid to admit we might make a mistake. But, we do know what works, and what doesnât, from our own experiencesâŚlimited as they are.
We all have found shelter in a way, favouring one line of equipment, or another, and when our shelter feels less than secure, we try to defend it. We hate to see a trusted manufacturer, seem to be failing. We try to turn a blind eye to its failing, while we hear sceptics predicting its doom.
The internet has opened the door to all sorts of communication, good and bad. We all have to try to use it for increasing our knowledge, and cherishing the good friends we can make using it. We have to accept that we all are different, and see thing differently.We have to work on our self respect, and our respect for others. We have to listen better, and watch what we blurt out in haste. We all have feelingsâŚwe all have faultsâŚwe all have to learn to share and get alongâŚour thin skins need to be shieldedâŚlets enjoy this hobby together, and try to speak, and live in a more positive wayâŚin spite of ourselves.
Anyone that has read all of this, deserves a pat on the backâŚanyone that has taken the trouble to try to understand what I have written, deserves more than a handshakeâŚmaybe one of David Russellâs hugsâŚI hope we can all have a safe, and enjoyable friendship on these pages of LSCâŚSmile, please, everyoneâŚin spite of yourselvesâŚand lets run a trainâŚ
Fr.Fred
So thatâs what happened to Danbury. Iâve been a collector for years and all of a sudden, things dryed up. Great models. I hope they come back. Originally started to collect them for the railroad, but then decided not to place them outdoors because they were too nice to be subject to weather/sun damage, except on special occasions. Hope they return.
Well said Friar.
Back to the original comment by Tony. A man may have the best mouse tarp in the world. But, if no one knows he has it, they will not use it to catch mice.
I used to go to hobby shops to look at and feel all the new train stock the manufacturers had to offer. No longer. Unless you live in a major city, you have no access to the shops and very few carry any G scale. Even there AC took their retail in house, eliminating sales support via retailers and internet vendors. The consolation was the catalog to sit on the throne and dream. AC has cut out printing their catalog. The only show in the east that AC attended was York. They had an empty booth.
Now no ad in GR.
How do they expect the public to know what they have to offer? Especially the new comer? Perhaps they are not looking to increase/maintain market share???
WellâŚlooking at my old, out of date rate card from ClambakeâŚeliminating ads in GR alone gives them 50-60K per year to bring this old stock in and clear out the loading dock in the PRC.
Those who clamour for new, new, new can console them selves that they are getting sort of new, new, new at the expense of any ads or catalogs or local dealers.
At this rate, and with the normal markup and available monies from lack of ads, anything really new will show upâŚinâŚ2015, maybe? When itâs two years old?
Who knows.
I ainât buying, so it makes no nevermind to me.
Those of you whose only enjoyment of the hobby demands something new on a regular basis will be suffering severe withdrawal.
But, you can rejoice that Bachmann has decided to enter yet another scale in the #1 gauge morassâŚby introducing 1:29 sowbellies.
Whatâs next?
Going to be interesting to watch how this unfolds.
Got my popcorn ready to pop.
TOC
2014 Garden Railway Rates; 1 full page and 4th cover, 6 times would be $28,956.
G-Scale is such a small market compared to HO, it has always amazed me how much stuff is actually available to us. Short runs of new designs, with apparently no real control over the product in the first place, will result in problems every time. I think we have been lucky to get what we get. I certainly donât like the problems any more than the next guy, but it doesnât surprise me.
It is also no shock to see various companies shifting towards the smaller scales to increase the potential volumes. The more we complain about it (in an attempt to get better product) in combination with the economy probably just gives them (any company) more reason to just get out of it altogether.
TOC
What does China know that we donât? It appears from the new arrival list that China is cleaning up their
production over runs and selling it to AC a dirt cheap prices realizing there will be no future reorders.
Why would one put in a manufacture order for the C16 when all of the era rolling stock has been discontinued. Why bring out an updated 0-4-0 a traditionally slow seller when Mallets and Pacifics have sold out in days? Why a âlimited numberâ of heavyweights in the same road schemes as previous instead of new road names? One thing we do not know is the shipment of 0-4-0s, C16s or heavyweights 10 cars or 500. It sounds more like onesys-twoseys.
China? WellâŚI donât think the PRC just runs stuff and expects you to take it.
I would suspect it was orderedâŚand producedâŚbut due to circumstances we will not comment upon, it appears stuff has been sitting on that loading dock for some time.
Regardless of what the pundits say about the factory not changing the artwork, the 0-4-0âs appear to be two years old.
The 2-8-0âs at least thatâŚwhen was the last time they did 1:24 stuff?
Another âclueâ is why now list them as âthrowbackâ?
They claim itâs a pricing throwback to what, 10 years ago?
Or a âthrowbackâ to a line they abandoned?
If I ever wanted any of the Delton sized 2-8-0âs, I do believe I would buy them right now. As in, right now.
But, since I do not, I personally will not.
There used to be a time, in days gone by, of the old Sanda Kan, where youâd have a full production run made, with all your minimums met, and they sent you what you wanted.
Floor stocked in the factory what didnât ship, and you were expected to bring it in as soon as possible.
JP Morgan Associates changed all of thatâŚyou owed them all the money right now, for the entire run, and they wouldnât floor stock anything.
Maybe they found a storeroom of old shiâŚstuff that had to goâŚbut 2011 doesnât fit anywhere close into that scenario.
Weâre left with what has been paid for ships, and possibly oldest first?
Probably a better answer than youâd get on the AC forum.
Maybe we should have a blood pressure reading thread.
Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
TOC
Dave-
In your assessment, is there anything inherent in Aristo for absorption by, say, Bachmann or USA? I doubt if LGB, at this time, is significant enough in the large scale market that absorption of AC would give them any âcompetitive advantageâ My guess is there may be a corporate decision stewing by âXâ company to buy out or take over the billing owed by AC in exchange for the remaining stock and brand name. Hmmm.- wonder if MTH wants the tooling rights? Your thoughts?
Wendell
Time will tell, Wendell.
Shrinking market, shrinking dollar value in the rest of the worldâŚthere has to be some marketing reason Bachmann decided to do 1:29 right in the middle of this, and for Stanley to ask in a thread what do you want in Standard Gauge LocomotivesâŚand you know where that question came from.
Since in LS Bachmann never has done any SG locos, and suddenly we get four sowbelly trolley cars announced in 1:29, makes you wonder and scratch your bald spot on where this is all going.
I keep telling the faithful to lose the blinders, back away and look at the big picture, but thatâs just bashing, so we wonât do that.
Going to be a very interesting rest of the year.
He who hath and ear to hear and an eye to seeâŚ
Blinders and fingers in your ears just doesnât cut it.
TOC
Wendell,
we know which direction Kader Industries is heading - world domination!!! They tried to get LGB a few years ago but were stumped by the administrator in not being a native German company.
They then picked up Sanda Kan for the princely sum of $8 million dollars. This expanded their quest to dominate the market. Is AC on the horizon for a take over - highly likely, depending on how much if any floor stock they are holding onto in China?
Kaderâs parent company is a conglomerate able to absorb the occasional financial losses for long term economic gain. I would say right now plans are being made for a move in that direction. A strong company will always strike when their competition is âbelly upâ and unable to fight back.
Bachmann did not move into a shrinking 1/29 market by chance. This is a calculated business decision. Combine the AC inventory and you have a strong standard gauge line up in the market with the economies of scale of production plus financial backing that Kader can provide. I think that AC will shrink to the âOâ scale market and leave largescale totally apart from the Revo product line.
TOC,
It is standard procedure to cast, tool, or purchase parts about 5% over order so if there is a percentage of miscast etc parts the contract can still be met. We just chuck those in the USA. The Chinese do one of two things- keep the excess components so they will not have to make/order an excess components for future runs or in most cases have manual labor assemble the devices using these components where resetting the tooling would be cost prohibitive. They often use the parts that did not meet specs and sell them on the black market or just sell them if patents have run out-- what we know as Chinese junk. I think this is the case here except their buyer is AC. It would not be cost effect to set up a run of lets say 50-70 heavyweights especially with different colors of styrene for each road name.
thomas prevost said:
TOC,
It is standard procedure to cast, tool, or purchase parts about 5% over order so if there is a percentage of miscast etc parts the contract can still be met. We just chuck those in the USA. The Chinese do one of two things- keep the excess components so they will not have to make/order an excess components for future runs or in most cases have manual labor assemble the devices using these components where resetting the tooling would be cost prohibitive. They often use the parts that did not meet specs and sell them on the black market or just sell them if patents have run out-- what we know as Chinese junk. I think this is the case here except their buyer is AC. It would not be cost effect to set up a run of lets say 50-70 heavyweights especially with different colors of styrene for each road name.
YeahâŚbut I knew from previous discussions, back when the originators of Sanda Kan sold to JPâŚSanda Kan allowed the customer to order full runs, then take only what they could pay for, SK storing the rest.
JP said no, but, one wondersâŚsince this stuff is 2011 and 2012 badged, long after JP was goneâŚa short run of 0-4-0âs and Delton 2-8-0âsâŚwell, the 2-8-0âs are really more telling than the older branded 0-4-0âs.
When is the last time you saw anyone clamouring for a new Delton 2-8-0 on the Aristo site?
âOh, Lewis, youâre such a gentleman, and care so much for the hobbyâŚand wonât you build me an MEC 2-8-0 in 1:24?â
I actually saw that on the old forumsâŚexcept the 2-8-0 in 1:24 part.
Then to mark them âthrowbackâ to get rid of themâŚwhen were they ordered, when were they made?
I am certain this discussion will result in another âinterviewâ of Lewis and Company by Nick, which will be placed on their forum.
I canât wait.
Iâll have to use my secret log-in to make comentsâŚ
TOC
Page 4?
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f72/Shortybear/OCS%20Theater%20Car/007-14_zpsff9ab15c.jpg)
Keep it up, youâll make it five and get the booby prize.
I really donât care much what the manufacturers do. The worse things get the more scratch building I do and Iâm enjoying g scale more and more.
Get you tools warmed up, itâs time to start building your own!
Micro Tools catalog is getting bigger and bigger. Maybe Iâm on the right track!