Large Scale Central

NWSL Closing

General Discussion
#1

NWSL just posted this on their Facebook page. Not good news for us that like to have replacement wheels. I really hope someone comes in and buys the business. His wife passed away a few weeks ago.

"This is the post I don’t want to make but the time has come. I just can’t do this without Lynda. Following is the notice I sent to all the magazines.

After 60 years in business, NWSL will cease operations effective August 30th, 2019. The company will continue to take orders for in-stock products until July 1st, 2019. Closure is for personal reasons and sale of the business is not anticipated, although reasonable proposals will be considered."

#2

I think an issue is that it seemed that the products were mostly produced to order, and the internal documentation (if any) was lost in the first sale.

My experiences were you could order something out of stock if they had it, and you ordered by dimensions, not application.

I had a phone conversation trying to get new wheels for the newer type of 2 wheel Aristo block:

“I’d like to order a set of nickel silver wheels for an Aristo RS-3”

OK, what size are they?

Well I can measure them, but I would think these are a unique part number because of the tapered axles

What do you mean by tapered axles?

The center hole is tapered, and the gauge of the wheels depends on this taper and where it is in the wheels.

Well, just order some and see if they fit.

I gave up.

Recently someone had some made for a 3 axle Aristo… they did not fit, he had to send in his motor blocks.

The resultant wheels were severely out of gauge.

So, unfortunately, what I would have expected to be a sustainable business (since the plating on Aristo wheels is crummy, did not go well.

So, not exactly sure what the “business” really consists of nowadays.

Greg

#3

NWSL did almost all of it’s business in the smaller scales, it’s really going to hurt everyone though. I find myself thinking that the hobby (in all scales) is slowly being forced into a model where everything is disposable as opposed to repairable. As for large scale I feel like we are dying from a thousand small cuts, the lack of new product is the least of issues when you can no longer repair old stock. With NWSL folding there goes everything older that they were the only source of parts for. Once it breaks it’s either fabricate your own parts, find a used one for parts, or toss.

#4

There are big differences between the engineering that preceded Chinese Toys and what we got from China.

G did not follow the normal standards or practices, we got toy designers trying to make their toys fit our our wants …

If G had followed with metal gears and steel axles and insulated rims, NWSL could have enlarged their proven products to fit our trains. To expect NWSL to keep track of Chinese foolishness seems extravagant for such a small market.

After all the Chinese didn’t want it; ‘We make toys, you break it, you buy a new one. We don’t make and stock parts…’

#5

These are sad days for the hobby. I was really lucky to get into it when I did. The hobby seemed to be at its peak then, and then not long after, the economy crashed, price of track skyrocketed, manufacturers started going out of business, etc.

#6

John Caughey said:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ."

After all the Chinese didn’t want it; 'We make toys, you break it, you buy a new one. We don’t make and stock parts…'

Quite.

#7

That is a shame. But if the market is there, someone will step up and fill the void. If the market really isn’t there, then when NWSL is gone, all that they offered is gone.

#8

I suspect much of the smaller scale business has gone in this age of instant gratification. Much of the younger generations don’t have the where with all to dismantle and repair their equipment let alone upgrade or modify. If it breaks they do what the Chinese expect…throw it away and buy new.

#9

Even the “if it breaks, buy a new one” approach doesn’t work when nobody’s making the stuff anymore.

#10

Ray Dunakin said:

These are sad days for the hobby. I was really lucky to get into it when I did. The hobby seemed to be at its peak then, and then not long after, the economy crashed, price of track skyrocketed, manufacturers started going out of business, etc.

You nailed it Ray.

  1. A lot of people seem to forget that first weekend in September 2008 when everything crashed overnight. (Has it been more than ten years, really??) Small businesses and marginal markets never did come back. They manipulated the people into thinking things were better because they let the stock market and real estate came back, but for regular small businesses like me…nada.

  2. Likewise, how can we forget the day, like literally in one day, with maybe a week’s notice is you were on friendly terms with a supplier, that track went from $2.50 a foot to $8.00 or more? Other items went way up in price, well over expected normal inflation.

You put those factors alone together and it’s no wonder suppliers have been disappearing. (Collateral damage: good luck running a magazine!)

#11

Interesting that you state that your small business was affected, since you create and sell paintings.

Most of the issues we are talking about went to outrageous increases in costs to manufacture, raw materials, etc.

So, I can only guess your business was affected by people having less disposable income, not all the things that affected our hobby.

Just wanting to understand, perhaps you had a different business at the time?

Greg

#12

The critical factor is singular: When people who actually have disposable income take a 40% hit overnight to their assets and businesses, they get scared. My own art world, architects, hobby shops, many fields of attorneys, vets (do you really need that annual check-up? those extra shots?), you name it, took the hit. Hell, a friend of mine owned a barber shop and took a 50% drop in his business because people started cutting their own hair or having their wives and girlfriends cut it for them to save a few bucks. These are regular people, people with okay money, “disposable” money. No lie.

Think of it this way: do you really need to buy a $5,000 painting to put over your fireplace when you’re worried you may not have a fireplace in a year?

I survived like a lot of small businesses: doing twice the work for half the money and searching out new customers and products.

#13

I understand, and thanks for not taking affront at the question.

It hit many of us hard… at the time, my company took a 20% hit in pay across the board, my wife and I were lucky, our pay was all salary.

When they did this, they also cut all bonuses and many long time (20 year people) were getting almost 50% of their yearly pay in bonuses… they took really hard hits, 2 top VP level people had to put mortgages on their houses they owned free and clear.

After the economy came back, it still took me 4 years to get all my people the raises they deserved.

Greg

#14

Right after I got back in the hobby and into G scale around 2007, I started looking for the old standard suppliers I used when I was in On3. Most were gone…Kemtron, Calscale, etc. NWSL was still around and I looked into their catalog and low and behold they listed a G scale ‘Flea’ drive. I considered that for a beginning project and called NWSL. What I found at that time was that David Rigmyre (I think that is the spelling) had just purchased NWSL and was still transferring the assets. In conversation it didn’t take long for me to determine that he had little to no engineering, machining, electrical or any other skill in that model railroad replacement parts marketplace. He was a magazine publisher/seller. Any technical questions I asked was ’ look in the catalog’. At that point I lost all faith in NWSL, and am surprised they lived even this long. I gave up on them and never looked back. I am sure they will be missed by many, but not me.

#15

I really agree Bob, exactly the same take, no engineering or machining experience, and the attitude was poor. I don’t mind looking in a catalog, but a manufacturer should at least know his product.

Greg

#16

Has anyone ever approached Gary Raymond about making replacement locomotive wheels?

#17

Pretty sure someone did a while back, when the NWSL issues started… I believe the answer was no, but worth trying.

Greg

#18

What do you mean by tapered axles?

The center hole is tapered, and the gauge of the wheels depends on this taper and where it is in the wheels.

Yes, that did make it extremely difficult to make new wheels. As an aside, we had some 33" wheels made for an old Aristo FA1 block in Fn3 (EBT M-1, so they were 1.63" diameter,) and Dave Q made them for us for $$$. They fit and the gauge is correct, but much of the cost was in fitting those tapered axles.

[We need a better solution to the problem of plated wheels losing their covers. Either a sleeve that fits the axle and has wheels that adjust in gauge on them (i.e. a 2-part wheel,) or a new axle with shoulders for the backs of the wheels and no tapers!]

Perhaps the other part that NWSL made that we desperately need is the Bachmann axle gear. The Connie and the Spectrum 2-6-0 and 4-4-0 (besides others) all will need one over time. Fortunately there’s a guy on Facebook (Jiro Yeramian) casting gears.

#19

Ah Hah! be careful of those Armenians! (names that end in “ian” are Armenian)… Yes I have been following him on Facebook, inventive guy.

Greg

#20

Boy, this thread is all over the place.

I followed the sale (Raoule I knew) and watched in sadness as page after page of the catalog had lines drawn through the items.

I talked with Dave at length over the 2-8-0, 4-4-0 and 2-6-0 axle gears…which are wrong…showed him the shims needed to make up for the narrow width and to keep the gearbox bearings in place…even offered a full gearbox, axle and old gear so he could see.

Not.

Interested.

As far as PRC manufacturers (how did we get there?) my old buddy Howard Lee Riley used to complain about PRC…even one of the head honchos backed him up…what Philly designed and sent over to the PRC to be built…often what came back they did not recognize.

Used to work with a lot of those folks on QC…but then we got others involved who wanted to “help” and we went back to square one. And I gave up.

Did you know Bachmann Trains, before being bought up by Kader, had metal gears? And Kader changed them to plastic? What, 84 or 85?

When the original Shays were falling apart, Dick Maddox went to the headquarters, and told me later when he complained…the head of the Ting Dynasty said they make trains cheap, when they break buy another…they are not in the parts business.

Okay. Kewl.

Did you know when LGB was going through reorganization, there was a specific company in the PRC who had just scored a pennies on the dollar purchase of 6 or 7 factories in china…and offered an unbelievably low price on LGB…thoughts were an attempt to corner the LS market…heck, they already built Aristo and most USA stuff…and I was told by someone involved that Dr. Pluta laughed them out of the place.

All that, and Isard…and I just flat gave up. Not worth the effort.

You know when the last new LS item I bought was?

I don’t either, but over 20 years ago.

So, somebody sends me a linque, and here I yam.

TOC