Large Scale Central

Not a surprise but

General Discussion
#61

One needs only to look to the past to understand the current conflict that America is in. Look to the Iraq/Iran war in the 80’s. America funded Saddam to the tune of billions of dollars in retribution for the Muslims outing the old Shah of Iran who was nothing more than an American puppet. Look to Afghanistan during the Russian invasion. America, through the CIA, directly funded Osama Bin Laden in the fight to drive the Russians out of Afghanistan. Osama was basically in the employ of America. America still funds the Northern Alliance (drug lords) in Afghanistan.

The invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction, even Colin Power admitted that the day he addressed the United Nations was the most embarassing day in his life. America invaded Iraq in retribution for the support given back in the 80’s and to secure oil reserves. Yes, other countries (England and Australia) were conned into this fiasco. Both countries have since admitted complicity in that the evidence presented was basically false.

Saddam Hussein did have chemical agents to suppress his population, but one must look to the west to determine the source of all the chemicals and expert assistance given (Germany, I believe). Who gave the Iranians their nuclear capability (the French)? When is the west going to understand that one cannot profit by exporting technology to countries with suspect idiology and not get bitten in return?

#62

One can certainly view the Iran Iraq war as a high point, kept both Governments busy, it has all been down hill since.

Real Politik tends to be muc more practical.

#63

Cale,
There is a way to solve the mess in Washington. It’s called a Constitutional Convention. This strikes terror in most of the people in this country because they don’t have a clue what it could really mean… establishment of term limits, elimination of the electoral college, direct popular vote (yes, I know the original justification for the college, but it is no longer necessary), easier elimination of political liars, clarification of the role of both houses of Congress, updating our government system in keeping with changes in our country today due to technology, population growth, political/social structure, and the elimination of the influence lobbyists have in running our country. But it’s unlikely to ever occur because our congressional members will do nothing to change the sweet deal they have once they’re elected. Ever see any of them return home after retiring or after being voted out, anything less than millionaires? We truly do have the best government money can buy. And it’s likely it will never change, until this country is on its knees politically, economically and socially. What a tragedy.

#64

But… this is a model train forum after all. Why are we all wasting energy talking politics? There are other sites for that… that can really get wild.

#65

As for politics, there’s alway the Marxist party

(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/vsmith/Comrade%20groucho.jpeg)

#66
Rich Niemeyer said:
But... this is a model train forum after all. Why are we all wasting energy talking politics? There are other sites for that... that can really get wild.
Between that and religion ............. it is usually "oh dear" time all over again.
#67

Harpo for Prez!

#68
Tim Brien said:
One needs only to look to the past to understand the current conflict that America is in. Look to the Iraq/Iran war in the 80's. America funded Saddam to the tune of billions of dollars in retribution for the Muslims outing the old Shah of Iran who was nothing more than an American puppet. Look to Afghanistan during the Russian invasion. America, through the CIA, directly funded Osama Bin Laden in the fight to drive the Russians out of Afghanistan. Osama was basically in the employ of America. America still funds the Northern Alliance (drug lords) in Afghanistan.

The invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction, even Colin Power admitted that the day he addressed the United Nations was the most embarassing day in his life. America invaded Iraq in retribution for the support given back in the 80’s and to secure oil reserves. Yes, other countries (England and Australia) were conned into this fiasco. Both countries have since admitted complicity in that the evidence presented was basically false.

Saddam Hussein did have chemical agents to suppress his population, but one must look to the west to determine the source of all the chemicals and expert assistance given (Germany, I believe). Who gave the Iranians their nuclear capability (the French)? When is the west going to understand that one cannot profit by exporting technology to countries with suspect idiology and not get bitten in return?


Tim,
Why comment about people when you can’t or won’t even put their correct names as in Colin Powell above. It seems you are taking a certain enjoyment in trashing the government of the US. Why don’t you start publicizing the shortcomings of your own government before you start trashing ours. Or are you just an anti-american rabble rouser.
LAO

#69

Larry,
if it is only my spelling of the guys name that you can find fault with then your government has a lot to answer for. Problem is that the shortcomings of your government spill over into the rest of the world, making things a little sticky for those who do not share the colonising spirit that America has followed since they invaded Cuba back in the 1890’s. Look to your countries history and its impact on the rest of the world in the last one hundred years.

    I have no problem when a voter actually thinks about the party he is going to vote for before making an educated decision.  It is the redneck devout followers who are the problem.  Who is worse - a devout Muslim or a redneck one-eyed voter immune to change?  It seems that it is not just religion that needs an overhaul.
#70
Tim Brien said:
Larry, if it is only my spelling of the guys name that you can find fault with then your government has a lot to answer for. Problem is that the shortcomings of your government spill over into the rest of the world, making things a little sticky for those who do not share the colonising spirit that America has followed since they invaded Cuba back in the 1890's. Look to your countries history and its impact on the rest of the world in the last one hundred years. 
    I have no problem when a voter actually thinks about the party he is going to vote for before making an educated decision.  It is the redneck devout followers who are the problem.  Who is worse - a devout Muslim or a redneck one-eyed voter immune to change?  It seems that it is not just religion that needs an overhaul.</blockquote>

Tim,
I see it like this whenever there is a problem in the world the first thing people do is to get the US to fix it. When we do we get blamed for meddling. When we don’t we get blamed for ignoring the problems of the world. Our country was happy not getting involved in foreigh issues. You can thank other countries for dragging us in. Rsult is we are where we are. Didn;t we liberate Cuba and allow them to elect their own government fairly quickly after the War of 1898? Your analogy would have worked better if you mentioned the Philippines. As for colonising spirit you should look to France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Great Britain, etc., etc.

When I vote I look for a candidate who’s beliefs (non religious) I think come close to what I want. Frankly for the past 20 odd years there haven’t been too many of them. Most are either too liberal, too conservative or just too out there.
LAO

#71

As a starting point, almost all of the conflicts that have been entered into by the US since 1940 are about equally divided Democrat versus Republican. WW2, Korea, Bay of Pigs, Viet Nam Bosnia – Dem’s
Grenada, Gulf 1, Afganistan, Gulf 2 – Repub’s. Not including the several UN sanctioned trips into African countries that both had a hand in. However, even discounting WW2 the larger engagements and the more deadly to US soldiers have come during the Democrat’s Presidencies.

It is very unlikely that any of us are/were fully aware of the information that was available to the leadership of this country at the time the decisions were made to enter/escalate any of these conflicts, and as such I believe and hope those decisions were made in good faith.

There has never been a President in the history of the US that was a poor man. Lincoln might have been the closest, Truman perhaps, but the vast majority come from monied or landed families. Since the 1950’s politics in the US has become big business, and it takes big money to get elected. Big money means monied friends, and that means compromise to accomodate supporters agendas political or otherwise.

I have yet to hear a single candidate lay out their strategy for “fixing” the economy. All I hear is “we need to change the current policy!”, but to what?

Other than McCain I don’t hear any of them dealing with the unpopular problem of Iraq. Hillary doesn’t, Obama doesn’t, Romney doesn’t. Some of you say they will get us out… That’s what Tricky Dick said in 1967-8 and it took him 7 years, well actually 4 since he tried to fight the war for a couple of years after taking office.

I fear the “change the country!!” speaches of clinton and obama since approximately 80% of all taxes paid is already collected from income earners with over $100,000 in gross income. I hear the middle class is shrinking… well it supposedly shrank by over 10% because those people moved up to higher income brackets!!

I trust no lifelong politician, any more than I trust someone that says we’re from the government and we’re here to help!

As you can tell I don’t really like the choices available in the National election… but given the alternatives I’ll probably vote for …well maybe Kinky Friedman, the Texas Jewboy, as a write in … well maybe not.

Mark

#72

The “Silly Season” is indeed upon us.

This is so much fun!

#73

Of course, in Spokane it’s silly season all year long. All you need to do is attend a city council meeting…:frowning:

#74

Warren,
Aren’t all City Council meetings no matter where they are?
LAO

#75

Steve’s a little closer to ours than the rest. Besides, ours is a real jewel…a class act…:frowning:

#76

Guy’s I used to be a city employee (police officer) I had to attend every city council meeting not because i was required to but because it kept the officials from talking behind the police chief and myselfs back!!! If we were there at least we could defend ourselves, remember the mayor telling me off the record of course that the only way the city would improve (he was like us warren spoke his mind honest as the day is long) and a lot of resistance from the council members for change, he said" it would take about 4 good heart attacks to resolve this cities problems!!! Unfortunately he died before change was made, or his statement came true, but in the end everything changed and probably not for the good. Havent been involved and dont want to be involved in this cities politics since!!!

#77
Quote:
Ric, not one body of a passenger was pulled from the wreckage of the 'aircraft' that hit the Pentagon. I worked 35 years in the aviation industry and read extensively into air crash investigations to hopefully glean some knowledge as to the cause of the accident. In all my reading I have yet seem one accident reported that did not yield human remains. The powers to be are telling us that all the human remains were incinerated and yet paper and wood survived the impact and the fire. Look to the initial impact photographs. The Pentagon was not hit by a commercial airliner. They got away with this one and fooled the voters, not that it would take much.
Wasn't any bodies pulled out the World Trade Center towers either. Guess that was some big Government hoax too. How many airliner crashes were there with full fuel tanks. In the Funeral business they call that cremation. Not much left but ashes.
#78

I don’t recall any bodies being pulled out of the hole dug by that airliner that augered in to a field in Pennsylvania, Flight 93. When a pilot runs out of altitude, airspeed and ideas, all at the same time and with a full fuel tank, there often is nothing left that could be called a body.

#79

No bodies were found at the WTC site???

From Fox news

NEW YORK — More than five years after the World Trade Center came crashing down, human remains keep cropping up near the site, angering family members who lost loved ones in the terrorist attack.

WTC Families for Proper Burial say the discovery of the bones on the northern edge of the site is another reminder that city and state authorities need to systematically comb the area.

“We can no longer rely on accidental discoveries,” the group said in a statement. “This must be a deliberate search. May this awful news be the catalyst needed to go back and do the job well.”

bones don’t burn folks!

#80

Ken,
the only report of human remains removed from the Pentagon were around nine Pentagon employees, from memory. If you read further you will see that I stated that the fires were still raging in the rubble of the tower collapse several months later and yet human remains were still being recovered from the site up to two years later.

  Yes,  there have been numerous airliner crashes that the aircraft contained heavy fuel loads.  Not one accident was the aircraft totally consumed as in the Pentagon crash.  The only wreckage visible in 'official' photographs is a small piece of cowling/fuselage sheetmetal mysteriously located outside the building and yet if one believes 'official' comments the entire aircraft, including the torn off wings was consumed in the building.   If one looks at the recovered 'wreckage'  then one wonders exactly what part of the aircraft itm actually is as it does not look to to be a part from a Boeing 757 airliner.


  An aircraft crash site is always littered with debris,  regardless of the supposed internal temperatures expected.  Aviation fuel burns at a temperature of around 800 degrees C.  This temperature is insufficient to cremate human remains let alone an entire aircraft.   Look outside the square and do not believe everything the man in the oval office tells you.