What about Buddy-L?
Freight cars exact Bachmann copies.
Don Pearson said:I have to agree with Don 100% LGB makes great quality trains but for the price they sell at I cant see spending that kind of money. Especially when one has to support a family. I think sometimes people forget that not all of us can just spend 1500 on an engine and not even give it second thought. I wont spend that kind of money knowing I will end up repainting it etc... For me thats a morgage payment and food for my kids. Tony I understand where you are coming from but I dont agree with your quote "The clamouring public don't give a fig as long as they can get their "fixes" at the lowest possible cost." Whats more important is feeding ones family not wasting money on a train that is overpriced especially if you can get one of similar or lesser quality at a lower cost. I would feel bad for LGB but they did it to themselves.
Tony, The R&D side of any product will always fdrive the cost, and no one is willing to pay the price for reinventing the wheel. I will never agree that a single coach, no matter the level of detail is worth a couple hundred dollars. The less detailed coaches are the happy medium for me. If I decide to detail them later, then that is where I'llgo, but the initial cost will ALWAYS be a factor in any purchase. As mentioned elswhere in a post, a customer owes a hobbyshop, or even a manufacturer nothing above what they are willing to pay. That doesn't mean than any of us aren't interested in quality. It means that there are trade offs involved in quality vs. what we beleive is the value. As much as I would love to own a locomotive like some in the pictures posted on this site, reality tells me (that being my wife) that I just can't give up $1500.00 because it is high quality. A guy can buy 30 sets fo japanese tools long before he pays for snap-on tools, but snap on they will buy simply because of the brand name. These individuals will spend hours convincing you that they are correct in their opinion and that you should listen to them. LGB has a very high quality product but is it really a value? If you are looking for a specific type of coach or boxcar and have to modify it for your needs does it really matter whats under the hood? I won't take shots at anyone for the things they model, or how they reach those ends, and as a small business owner (and working class dog) I will continue to treat my wallet with serious level of respect. The name on the box won't sway me nearly as much as the quality of the product vs. its value. That pesky value word again.
I think what people forget is that not all of us can spend that kind of money. If LGB and accurcraft were the only G scale makers I would probably not be in this hobby because I could not afford it. It is these other companies that keep us poor folks into the hobby.
John Bouck said:Some of the parts on Buddy L are identical. Other parts have small differences. Just enough they are not identical copies.
What about Buddy-L? Freight cars exact Bachmann copies.
I would be willing to bet the Buddy L and Bachmann cars are made in the same factory.
The cupola of the Buddy L bobber and the Bachmann bobber are identical. I could not tell them apart.
However, the tools used for the caboose body are different. The walls/roof are one piece on the Bachmann.
The walls/floor are one piece on the Buddy L.
The box car undercarriages are the same. Slight differences in the body.
I’ve had the exact same problems painting both. Leading me to believe the plastic is probably the same.
Ralph
HJ Well I guess the Sky IS Falling…well for some :lol:
Tony: I wouldnt be surprised one bit if NewQ turns out to have been some sort of backdoor deal EPL was trying to create when they went under, just so that they would have something on the market if they lost control of EPL, pure speculation but it does sound very possible given the stuff going on before it did the Big Hindenburg. Either way Marklins silence has been deafening.
Victor,
With all the foam some of those guys generate they should be working as baristas serving up lattes and cappuccinos. 
Tim Brien said:
Don, in all my 35 years of aircraft engineering, Snap-on tools followed by the 'lesser' perceived quality Craftsman tools were regarded by the elitists as the epitome in tool manufacture. Workers had tens of thousands of dollars of Snap-on tools in their boxes and would spend hours each day doing a head count and wiping and polishing their treasured tools of trade. Of cause, the real workers used cheaper tools and got on with their work. The Snap-on tool owner was always the cleanest guy at the end of shift. I think of them as show ponies. Put them at the pithead and they could not even raise a sweat.I see a similar analogy with the red box/NewQ controversy. At least the NewQ's get taken out of their boxes and get a run occasionally.</blockquote>When I wrenched for a living I was a Snap-On tool guy. I was the number one tech in my dealer. I made the most money, had the least come backs and was the busiest. I had twice the stalls as anyone else and I came into work early and left late.
When it came to making money I took it very seriously. If I had tools I couldn’t count on, I couldn’t work. Using cheap tools meant I was going to break something and probably get hurt. I remember many times breaking wrenches with my hands but never once was it a Snap-On. Screw drivers were another story, I broke way too many because I abused them to no end. Our dealers were always pissed at me because I broke so many. I stripped a few ratchet heads too but I always had two or three similar tools to get me by until the dealer came to replace broken parts. That was usually twice a week or they would come by early if I called. Some items I always had boxes of too. Drills, air hammer chisels, cut off wheels, grinding pads, lights, batteries and anything else that could get broken, wear out, lost or stolen. I even had all my own electronic diagnostic equipment. I never had to wait for the shop scan tools because somebody else had them…
Edit: I would like to see some of these cheap LGB trains. Never know if something might be just right for a bash or something…
Jon.
Hi HL
Are all the tank cars you got spelled correctly? The one I saw had Shell spelled Sell if I’m not mistaken!
Doug Arnold said:Doug,
Hi HL Are all the tank cars you got spelled correctly? The one I saw had Shell spelled Sell if I'm not mistaken!
All eight are lettered for “Central Oil”
Jon,
As mentioned all of mine will be VAP (Value Added Projects) i.e. much closer to RhB and FO two-axle cars than what is on the market.
I have some snap-on tools.
However, I found you could buy 2-1/2 times as many Craftsman tools as Snap-On, same guarantee, if the tool truck wasn’t available, easier to get replaced at Sears.
That allowed me a full set at work, and at home.
My MAC toolbox and roll cab…I bought Snap-On badges and put them on.
Shut up the naysayers.
I made good money, as did the MAC guys, Matco guys, and Snap-On guys.
The only difference was the more experienced guys (been around the longest) had the most disposable income and bought the Snap-On tools.
Type of tools made no difference in productivity.
Snap-On guys borrowed Craftsman tools from you, their productivity did not go down, Craftsman guys borrowed Snap-On tools, their productivity did not go up.
I ran shops, too, and watched it from that end.
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/teufel/devil-smiley-023.gif)
Who would buy Snap-on if one can buy the pricier HaZet?
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/teufel/devil-smiley-023.gif)
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/teufel/devil-smiley-023.gif)
Who would buy Snap-on if one can buy the pricier HaZet?
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/teufel/devil-smiley-023.gif)
I used to know a gentleman that would start the morning fire in his fireplace with a $20 bill. Whatever floats your boat. Ralph
Ralph Berg said:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/teufel/devil-smiley-023.gif)
Who would buy Snap-on if one can buy the pricier HaZet?
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/teufel/devil-smiley-023.gif)
I used to know a gentleman that would start the morning fire in his fireplace with a $20 bill. Whatever floats your boat. Ralph
Ralph do you still have that guy’s email, I have several things I would like to sell him!!! HAH LOL The Regal “Really”
Jerry Hansen said:
Ralph Berg said:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/teufel/devil-smiley-023.gif)
Who would buy Snap-on if one can buy the pricier HaZet?
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/teufel/devil-smiley-023.gif)
I used to know a gentleman that would start the morning fire in his fireplace with a $20 bill. Whatever floats your boat. Ralph
Ralph do you still have that guy’s email, I have several things I would like to sell him!!! HAH LOL The Regal “Really”
Sorry Jerry. He was in his 80’s about 25 years ago. Had been lighting the fireplace that way since he was 50. Ralph
TonyWalsham said:
What better way could there be to "destroy" an old, long etsablished brand name, than to bring out a range el cheapo knock off copies.The clamouring public don’t give a fig as long as they can get their “fixes” at the lowest possible cost.
Scenario = I’m a traditional stuck in the mud modeller (sounds like a few “poms” I know) and I won’t buy or use anything but quality LGB trains, they have been here for years and they are the best (picture man crossing his arms over a puffed up chest!).
Hang on, they have gone out of business and I can’t buy them anymore, I’ll just buy second hand of ebay (picture man with folded arms and puffed up chest again).
Damn, everybody wants an arm and a leg for LGB, I can’t afford that, what will I buy now to expand my LGB only empire, Aristo and USA don’t make German trains (picture man with crossed arms only).
Some time later (picture man with hands in pockets and sad look on face), I haven’t bought any trains for ages but all my mates are having a great time buying NQ and saving lots of money (picture man shuffling away).
End of scenario
Unfortunately that is not the end of the scenario.
IF the NQ stuff are knock offs of LGB, that is theft of ntellectual property, and by purchasing them you would be aiding and abetting that theft.
Still, as we don’t know for sure one way or the other they are knock offs, keep up the good work of getting the stuff as cheaply as you can and just wait until you want spare parts and/or service. Then you might understand what you were paying for with LGB.
BTW. LGB is being produced once again. By Märklin.
I’ll throw my to cents in again.
Guys, I suspect not a single on of us beleives this to be a hobby that is inexpensive by any stretch. Some of us have thousands in track alone, and more power to you if that floats your boat. On the other end of that spectrum is the guy who is going to be in this hobby that, for what ever reason, is just not going to give up over $100.00 for every piece of rolling stock he has, and upwards of $400.00 for a locomotive that, in most instances have a whimsical appearance (personal opinion). I am on the second end of the spectrum. Its not that I can’t afford the LGB stuff, but it honestly doesn’t do a thing for me appearance wise, price aside. How everyone else enjoys this hobby is their business and as I have stated in other posts, I mean to offend no one. Having said that I am open to recommendations on how I might do something better for knowledge sake, but if that recommendation came in the form of ‘just buy LGB’ that would be an incredibly short discussion. I have read in many posts about the quality of their mechanical parts, and would like a dependable locomotive just like the next guy.
Here is one to think about: If there is a fault in what they are doing, or a quality issue they won’t address, show me the data to support it. When LGB Started what was their history?
Of course it is rhetorical, any new company will have to be in business and build a history, not inherit one.
The ‘little red box lovers’ simply are brand name guys and thats fine, but there are other companies with folks who are partial to their products as well. Interestingly, the LGB guys seem to be more verbal about their likes and dislikes.
Marklin can make LGB and thats ok, but is it still LGB? Because its still a German Company its the same? where is the difference? Perhaps LGB’s ‘holier-than-thou, our-product-is-so-superior-that-we-can-demand-any-price-we-want’ style of marketing finally felt the inevitable. This isn’t the first company to feel the pain, nor will they be the last. People might vote with their hearts, but they are fed by what goes throgh their wallets.
There was no intent of malice or bias in the above statement! just my two cents.
From somewhere in Iraq…
Hi Don.
I am not defending LGB/Märklin specifically.
I am well aware that their products have been and remain, expensive.
Rather, I am commenting on what I see as a disturbing trend in our Society to condone pirating as long as it is cheap enough for the consumer to ignore the moral aspect of what I consider is theft.
I don’t think it is right that it seems NQ have been able, for whatever reason, to produce what appears to be an almost exact copy of the running gear of a well known LGB locomotive. If some deal was done legitimately then fine.
Only time will tell.
I am still of the opinion that copying anothers work is theft of intellectual property and will continue to hold that opinion.
In China I have seen pictures of blatant knock off copies of well known brands of cars. Can you imagine BMW, for example, allowing a rebranded Chinese imitation to hit the streets in any other country where they could enforce their intellectual property rights?
Points well taken Tony. If you want to see Piracy at its finest come to the middle east. I can get a DVD of a new release before it hits the theaters.
In the end we (?) consumers are interested in a single goal, the value of what we have paid for.
in another post Fr. Fred (nothing but respect for the both of you by the way) mentioned that his Bachmann big haulers have been working fine. He didn’t have an ill word for anyone, and to my knowledge, never has. Is that a brand name loyalty, or the recognintion of value?
The Marklin name has stood for quality as well, and to that extent, good stuff. But red box or not, it is no longer LGB. But the box will be?
And the difference is?
The effect on the consumer is?
No one knows the deals behind closed doors, or there wouldn’t be a need for doors. I do see the ‘seems’ in your post. Again, quality vs. what I am willing to spend. It just so happens that the era I will model is not even remotely available in LGB, or I would have looked. Personal preferences as well.
The single trend in our society is a very short term one. People are more conscious today than they were a year ago about where every single dollar goes. The days of disposable income (by the way, if any of you have disposable income, I can provide a mailing address) as it was are gone, and now that a financial pinch is at hand, folks are more cautious with their hard earned cash. It is a matter of who will get that income from them for the hobby, and if Marklin does no better with their prices (shall we call it ‘Red Box Syndrome’, so those that choose to can seek medical help later) they will be the next to get their head cut inn the large scale market. Make no mistake, it is dog eat dog, and the red box is in the yard with the pit bull. Welcome to Macro Economics, and to LGB, welcome to reality.
What the heck I will put my 2 cents in as well.
I agree with Tony. Its not right “if” NQ has copied LGB stuff with out a agreement to do so.
If there was a deal done then maybe someone from LGB or who ever it is today should let this be known.
As for me. In a few weeks all my All my LGB locos and a few other LGB things will be going on ebay. I have found something that works better and is the same or cheeper in most cases.
So from a selfish point I hope the Red boxers are willing to pay and pay big.
My 2 cents worth.
Ahh!!! Geoff. So you are going to contribute to the glut of unsaleable LGB on the market.
A friend has been trying to sell what was valued at about A$30,000 some 8 - 9 years ago and cannot.
The best offer he received here in Australia was A$ 3,000 for the lot.
Good luck in your endeavours.