Large Scale Central

Newquida - a "true" LGB knock-off?

General Discussion
#1

Any detailed comparative analysis and running assessment with LGB from those who have purchased rolling stock (locos also?) and any other LGB-like products made by this company?

And…

Is there evidence this company is intent on replicating a full measure of LGB track/locos/rolling stock in either “Western” or “European” motif?

Was Newquida making the starter sets for the now defunct San Diego replacement for LGB, Silvergate?
Further, did they have a contract with Marklin to make their replacement line of LGB products?

Any of the above two questions betrays how this company could easily replicate “X” LGB products on their own.

Have they been “shut down” by a law suit – say, from Kader (gulp!) to protect any suspected purchase of the molds?

Ah, far too curious. For many, here’s imagination at its worst: Kader (Bachmann) owning the pirated LGB molds.

Wendell

#2

Wendell,
HJ did a comparison review of the RhB boxcar in the review section and also some comments on the tanker in the Modelling section. Garrett did a tanker side by side comparison on the soon to be defunct MAD forum site. The items look similar but are not clones, although a LGB sample product was obviously the ‘inspiration’ for the supposed knockoff.

        Those who have attempted to contact the manufacturer have been advised to contact the seller in their country as the manufacturer seems reluctant to deal with enquiries.  I have commented several times that the outer packing case, one receives when they purchase items by the case load,  makes no reference to the manufacturer,  but indicates the seller's name only.  I wonder if the manufacturer is simply a contractor to a third party.

        Marklin were successful in Europe having them banned from trade shows (early 2008) ,  but to date apparently no attempt to legally silence them.  They are not LGB 'ripoffs' as will be evident in HJ's comparison,  but shall we say they are inspired by LGB sample models.  I have searched eBay regularly for item listings,  but to date,  the only search results reveal the occasional radio control boat models that the company is known for. I am testing the waters at present with some coaches for sale on eBay.  I made no mention of the manufacturer's brandname but did emphasise that the items were not the same quality as the 'parent' company.
#3

Tim-
Thanks.
Your suspicion of the manufacturer being a “contractor to a third party” considering the lack of interest in responding to inquiries – in short, protection for the true marketing source.

Your detailed observation suggests you have ordered the products? If so, your take on durability?

#4

Wendell.
Silvergate Manufacturing have a half page ad in the Dec GR offering a very large inventory of “Original LGB parts”, which I presume are of German origin, and “Experienced LGB repairs”.

#5

I got a chance to examine them at my former LGB dealer and compare them with the LGB product.
Are they knock-offs? They are built a little lighter but parts would be interchangeable.
He was running one of the battery locos and it was built cheap. The rc was only good for about 30 feet and speed control was awful. It has good battery life though. It might make a good Christmas toy for a child but personally that’s about all. The sound is so bad they are better run without it.

#6

Wendell,
the coaches are excellent, although definately not the quality of LGB. NQ have taken the roof from the Sashen model and fitted it to the later ‘modernised’ Rugen coach body. Maybe this is to circumvent copyright laws. While I do not have a master sample from LGB, but working on photographs in catalogues, NQ have certainly captured the spirit of the LGB model.

        Quality and durability - mouldings come with slight scratch/tooling marks and pad printing may be a little fuzzy,  but definately value for money.  Plastic used is not pliable and any stress is likely to cause fractures.  The gondola body is a very close 'copy' with parts interchangeable between NQ and LGB.  The chassis underframe is a direct swapover.  The gondola bed sides have no internal detail,  but at $15.00 USD each they are best value for money around.  I have purchased eight coaches and eight gondolas and find them excellent for day to day usage.  The coach centre buffer did need recessing further into the body as even on ten-foot diameter curves I was suffering derailment from buffer lock.
#7

I have bought several of their box cars and found that although not LGB quality a great value for everyday use. I also have a few of the tank cars. The printing leaves a lot to be desired but I bought them for a repaint and letter. I am quite satisfied. When mixed in with my LGB cars only the die hard collector would know.

#8

What better way could there be to “destroy” an old, long etsablished brand name, than to bring out a range el cheapo knock off copies.

The clamouring public don’t give a fig as long as they can get their “fixes” at the lowest possible cost.

#9

Back to the basic question; as mentioned I compared the two; yes, it is a “knock off” but clearly made from their own moulds.
What would I term a “knock-off”? An item that has been copied from someone else, lock, stock and barrel, including the many errors included in the more expensive “model”.

BTW the “knock-offs” of any kind are a growth industry, for exactly the reasons Tony mentioned. Between that and instant satisfaction … we live in interesting times!

#10

I sure do resent that Tony. I used to have a great deal of respect for you.

#11

They had to be made under license of some kind or another.
Similar to the early Charles Ro stuff that was an exact replica of LGB’s wooden boxcars.
If not, do you think LGB, Maerklin, or whom ever controls the LGB patterns now would allow it?

#12

Ahhh Mike, that is the cross I have to bear for telling the truth.
No offence was meant.
It is a fact of life that Human nature being what it is, most folk will go for the cheaper item every time.

If you have been following this self same thread at GSM, there has been all sorts of innuendo and even some comparison pics of at least the 2-6-2 locos side by side and inverted. Apart from the obviously inferior quality of many items including the wheels, they look like dead ringers to me.
There have also been examples of the LGB mark owners having such items stopped from being sold at train shows in Europe, let alone the case that was made that the NQ stuff contravened the Shell logo copyright which apparently had been licensed to LGB.

#13

Keep in mind folks that GSM is shutting down because people over there couldnt control their emotions about this stuff.

Keystone is very very similar to Bachmann, yet Bmann has never sued to stop thier production, just as Marklin has yet never lifted a finger to stop Newquida, its not like thier hard to find, they have a website. I beleive its because they can’t do much other than temporary delays like the Euro shows.

I suspect once the investigations are done, NewQ will indeed be sold in Europe and England just as they are here, in fact on one reply on GSM, it appears that one Brit distributor might very well be doing just this come this Christmas. What will the devotees do if that happens?

I find this whole subject infuriatingly simple, suspect its not LGB? turn it over and read the bloody stamp, its THAT simple to ID these. I just see a huge case of Sour Grapes by a few who cannot accept that their beloved EPL went under and that other lesser companies might fill that void.

#14

Victor, with the greatest respect, that depends on how the NQ stuff was brought to market.
That we don’t know.
Personally I abhore copiers. Why can’t those that do copy do something for themselves.

BTW, with Bachmann being a part of the largest toy making Company in the World, what do you think the chances are that that Company also owns Keystone?

#15

Tony, The R&D side of any product will always fdrive the cost, and no one is willing to pay the price for reinventing the wheel.
I will never agree that a single coach, no matter the level of detail is worth a couple hundred dollars. The less detailed coaches are the happy medium for me. If I decide to detail them later, then that is where I’llgo, but the initial cost will ALWAYS be a factor in any purchase. As mentioned elswhere in a post, a customer owes a hobbyshop, or even a manufacturer nothing above what they are willing to pay.
That doesn’t mean than any of us aren’t interested in quality. It means that there are trade offs involved in quality vs. what we beleive is the value. As much as I would love to own a locomotive like some in the pictures posted on this site, reality tells me (that being my wife) that I just can’t give up $1500.00 because it is high quality. A guy can buy 30 sets fo japanese tools long before he pays for snap-on tools, but snap on they will buy simply because of the brand name. These individuals will spend hours convincing you that they are correct in their opinion and that you should listen to them.
LGB has a very high quality product but is it really a value? If you are looking for a specific type of coach or boxcar and have to modify it for your needs does it really matter whats under the hood? I won’t take shots at anyone for the things they model, or how they reach those ends, and as a small business owner (and working class dog) I will continue to treat my wallet with serious level of respect. The name on the box won’t sway me nearly as much as the quality of the product vs. its value.
That pesky value word again.

#16

Don,
in all my 35 years of aircraft engineering, Snap-on tools followed by the ‘lesser’ perceived quality Craftsman tools were regarded by the elitists as the epitome in tool manufacture. Workers had tens of thousands of dollars of Snap-on tools in their boxes and would spend hours each day doing a head count and wiping and polishing their treasured tools of trade. Of cause, the real workers used cheaper tools and got on with their work. The Snap-on tool owner was always the cleanest guy at the end of shift. I think of them as show ponies. Put them at the pithead and they could not even raise a sweat.

 I see a similar analogy with the red box/NewQ controversy.  At least the NewQ's get taken out of their boxes and get a run occasionally.
#17

Exactly my point Sir.

#18

Hello Don,
Years ago I was on the extremities of a passing off case involving moulded copies of cast metal model cars and detail parts. I was not involved per se, but the Company that was moulding my original pattern parts were also knocking off other stuff unbeknownt to me.
That is theft. It allowed them to undercut the originals in the market place until it quite rightly got stopped by the victims.
Sure a lot of modelers got cheap detail parts for awhile, but that does not make it right.

I am not arguing the merits of the (claimed) high quality of LGB.
Not am I criticising the quality of NQ.

Rather I question the efficacy of the tooling.
Do you have any idea how much original tooling costs for say, a coach, compared to simply pantographing an original to make a copy?
If the NQ equipment had been made from original tooling it would likely be done differently. But, when a model has all the original mould bracing plus mistakes etc then they are copies, and can be made cheaply because they did not have to pay for all the original tooling work.
Have you actually seen the side by side comparison pictures?

Now, I am not making any allegations one way or the other but it all looks very suspicious to me.

I also still have some pieces of 45 mm gauge track that was a copy of an LGB original. It is identical, except it is easy to pick the inferior quality plastic.
That wasn’t right either, but the copier got away with it in the USA. However he was “forced” to cease and desist and dispose of all existing stock. Some of which I acquired and have kept in case the subject ever came up again.
I also have comparison side by side pictures of both the original and the copy.

#19
John Bouck said:
They had to be made under license of some kind or another. Similar to the early Charles Ro stuff that was an exact replica of LGB's wooden boxcars. If not, do you think LGB, Maerklin, or whom ever controls the LGB patterns now would allow it?
JB

Sources mentioned that Märklin was looking at legal remedies, so far zilch and I’m sure, at the moment, they have more important things to do.

#20
Victor Smith said:
....

I suspect once the investigations are done, NewQ will indeed be sold in Europe and England just as they are here, in fact on one reply on GSM, it appears that one Brit distributor might very well be doing just this come this Christmas. What will the devotees do if that happens?

…


The following link was posted on a German forum

http://www.storacingproducts.com/g-scale-model-trains.html

All prices are in pounds. :wink: Christmas came early, or what?? :lol: :wink:

PS some of those Santas over there will be still grouchier!

BTW I bought a slew of tankcars - it will be a VAP - and four of the boxcars to run a long time test. :confused: