You are kidding, right?
You must not have any Aristo products.
Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
I don’t see any gloom and doom presented, maybe Fred knows something we don’t.
Attention: non-speculative data follows:
That address on the site is a residence in Jersey City, Hudson County, New Jersey.
It’s owned by Navin who works at Aristo in service, and has lots of hats too.
Only the Revo stuff is on the site, although the Crest product line is larger.
I have contacted them to ask if they will have the full Crest line.
Lewis Polk has publicly posted that he expects the Revo products to be in stock in mid-september.
No Aristo products (other than #5) have been announced as shipping, in fact several Aristo people have stated that there is product “hung up” in China
There’s no reason we cannot speculate on what the reasons are for the above FACTS.
Anyone commenting on Aster, Accucraft, Bachmann, USA Trains does not invoke such responses, so what is the big deal?
Interesting that everything is at 40% discount already. This is the same discount as on the Aristo site for other items.
Good news is that this change, whatever it means, does no further damage to dealers.
Regards, Greg
Greg,
The reaction from some is very similar to what we saw/heard back in 2006 when EPL was on the skids.
It couldn’t possibly happen … and then it did.
Most likely there are some people on this site who have a “fairly good” idea what’s cooking, but just like 2004-06: mum’s the word. For very good reason!
Yep, agreed… although I really think it’s Rooster’s fault!
Aristo will survive!..skip…
Aristo will survive!..skip…
Aristo will survive!..skip…
Aristo will survive!..skip…
Aristo will survive!..skip…
Aristo will survive!..skip…
Aristo will survive!..skip…
Aristo will survive!..skip…
Aristo will survive!..skip…
Aristo will survive!..skip…
BANG!
(stupid record…)
…as long as you keep believing!
Miracle on 34th Street…
I believe…I believe…I believe…I believe…I believe…I believe…
Click your slippers together…and you’re back in Kansas!
Ah, everything now has such a rosy glow!
TOC
Bart Salmons said:
I gotta agree with Fred…between work and the media…the REal World is bad enough…can;t we talk trains and retell positive experiences and hope and dreams…and little cuddly puppies? Speaking of puppies…
I see product availability and RELIABILITY as relevant in any discussion as any positive comments on our trains’ operation. We can all tell sweet stories about our experiences but at the end of the day who actually benefits. A manufacturer is RESPONSIBLE for his product line and MUST be ACCOUNTABLE for the product performance.
As regards the CREST website one must wonder why Aristo separates the Aristo product line mailing address from the Crest address.
The company address is the OFFICIAL address of the company for legal reasons and any legal recourse action. The Crest line goes back to when Nat Polk had the reins of the company from memory. I do find it odd that the ‘official’ company address is a private residence. This may be a short term fix until permanent company offices are found.
Alas, as a conspiracy theorist, one looks a little deeper at any change in a companies structure, particularly in these trying economic times.
Some one with a large (or even small) financial investment in REVO products will no doubt take interest in the product future availability. How many have the old twin address and 100 address Train Engineer operating systems? It seems Aristo products have built in redundancy features, so I trust Aristo will be forthcoming with products in the Crest line to bolster one’s confidence in the REVO system.
If one wants to talk about sweet little puppies and ponies then I am sure there are suitable pet related website forums to post on.
I can remember when, before the EPL demise, a certain person in the business actually made a comment, that there would be “a major player going under”.
Methinks he meant EPL but now I am not so sure.
When Lewis hived off Crest it was about the time of the “bankruptcy” proceedings and many of us wondered then, why it was done.
I guess we are still wondering.
So they want to get into H0. Just electronics or models as well? I doubt the latter. After all, the H0 Train engineer was a resounding marketing success. So why not try it again?
Watch out DCC they are out to get you!!
No doubt all will be clear in the passage of time.
Curmudgeon mcneely said:
Aristo will survive!..skip…
Aristo will survive!..skip…
Aristo will survive!..skip…
Aristo will survive!..skip…
Aristo will survive!..skip…
Aristo will survive!..skip…
Aristo will survive!..skip…
Aristo will survive!..skip…
Aristo will survive!..skip…
Aristo will survive!..skip…
BANG!
(stupid record…)
…as long as you keep believing!Miracle on 34th Street…
I believe…I believe…I believe…I believe…I believe…I believe…
Click your slippers together…and you’re back in Kansas!
Ah, everything now has such a rosy glow!
TOC
Agreed, Some times its hard for the remaining few to grasp the reality of some situations, Then just try to make like everything is good and try to twist other peoples words into something negative.
No doom and gloom just questions about new facts presented about “Model Train Related Topic”
Nicky
There is always a doomer/gloomer person. It’s just reality about what is going on and posting of a new web site. Just the facts folks. Later RJD
Just the facts.
I recall long ago, someone who worked with them folks at the time, before the Sol Kramer bailout…
They split Crest off so if a sugar daddy failed to materialize, they’d still have Crest.
True?
True as a person who worked with them and related to me what happened can be, I guess.
Not a subsidiary, rather separate, controlled from the same place.
It has gotten dead quiet.
There is only one outfit in Model Railroads I know of that can cause that kind of a blackout, and it ain’t Polks.
We just wait until it’s all said and done, and see what has transpired.
The brand will continue, I have no doubt.
The question in your minds should be who owns the tooling?
Regardless of what Kool Aid you’ve been fed, if that question causes a major shutdown of your systems, then ask who holds the tooling?
There are questions you could ask…most have been asked…and the answers are pretty amazing.
Certainly do not jibe with the written Kool Aid you see.
Last question:
Where will you buy your Aristo in the future?
Good question.
We’ll see, eh?
TOC
Rose colored glasses never change the reality, only the perception.
As for pessimism, my philosophy is as follows:
Expect the worst, pray for the best, and I am never disappointed.
BC
It is my feeling Revolution and Crest will survive whether Lewis and company own it or another principle such as Navin. It is a sound product line that is oriented towards the future of battery operated systems. The question is if AC can survive. If they should go into receivership, it will be difficult if not impossible to get replacement parts. I know I am stocking up on critical parts such as trucks etc. just incase!! It is not a matter of doom and gloom, its as was stated" pray for the best, but be prepared for the worst.’
Let me quote from my last post:
“Regardless of what Kool Aid you’ve been fed, if that question causes a major shutdown of your systems, then ask who holds the tooling?”
There are many scenarios to having stuff made by the factories in the PRC.
Most expensive is full right of approval, and you own the tooling.
Cheapest is you have much less right of approval, and the factory owns the tooling.
No matter what has been put out in newsletters to the faithful, we may very well find out who actually owns the tooling.
Parts may be hard to find initially if there is a change, but that will pick up is a good guess.
Can you get parts now?
Most folks I talk to claim most stuff is out of stock.
Then there is that pesky patent.
Someone I know investigated it, and it’s for cosmetics.
Easy enough to change cosmetics.
TOC
Those who have purchased (or attempted to purchase) products online from the manufacturer website will have found that stock level is critical to non-existent. It is this that makes many wary of the future. Five years on from the meltdown and in reality little has changed other than the manufacturer taking on the role as manufacturer/wholesaler and retailer.
I do feel for the company with this doomseday attitude from many and the future direction was discussed at length a few months ago and many received personal emails from Florida as a result of that particular thread.
We have no evidence of any problems with production but then circumstantial evidence has hung many an unwitting convictee in the courts.
When EPL hit the fan in 2006 at least with fortuitious ‘foresight’ plenty of stock did make its way to the market at greatly discounted prices. Alas, should any manufacturer seek chapter 11 then I seriously doubt that any stock will be seen in the market. Of cause this will boost the sales potential of new old stock that dealers have not been able to ofload due the website sales policy.
In this current financial economy any change in the ‘status quo’ does make many suspicious of ulterior motives.
Aristo stainless track has given and will continue to give me years of enjoyment. It is a pity the track supply situation also dried up as I did have expansion plans but have shelved these permanently. Lack of supply of locomotives and rolling stock did not inconvenience me as I had no interest in the mainline standard gauge stock, preferring instead the ‘Classic’ line. Alas, that dried up so I looked elswhere and modified my plans.
Difficult times make for difficult decisions. Maybe I also should buy a pony assuming that any are available.
Boy talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill you guys sure have done it. Friendly post about a new web site and you guys go ape. Glade I don’t use the product but and never will. Later RJD
Greg Elmassian said:
You are kidding, right?
You must not have any Aristo products.
Greg
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f72/Shortybear/012_zpsc6e440ba.jpg)
NOPE …got lots of their stuff and no issues with their product I purchased either.
Seasoned business oriented folk already know that if you continue to feed any animal from the table once they will always want more! The appetite will always continue to grow for table food!
I have a lot of respect for any businessmen/women in this or any market that involves skilled labor, not just driving a keyboard… which I do heavily intoxicated most of the time at LSC ONLY.
I’m driving drunk …arrest me Shawn! (might have a contribution of bachmann track for the boy your helping)
Hey Rooster, you hang out with the very best …
HJ,
which one is Rooster???
HJ, Tim, Dave, Greg, etc., and the rest of us, all share this focus: Protect us as consumers.
This site continually reports reasons for caution.
True, those reasons are only as good as the supporting FACTS.
Questioning reasons and supporting statements is a continuing role of LSC.
A safe assumption is the manufacturers and retail sources still in business know of our caution, as this skepticism is historically fed by user reports of varied product failures and obsolescence.
Therefore, when manufacturers make changes are those changes announced
with an outcome of assurance to current and future customers?
Understandably, when an assurance message is missing or not trusted, this website readily reactivates this caution.
Wendell
Some say “follow the money”, while I would prefer follow the paper trail. A company diversifies its product line for many reasons. Electronic items are manufactured under the Crest brandname. Now one wonders why a company with a good trading name would bring out a product line with a different brandname. One would think that it would trade on the goodwill established by the original brandname.
Perhaps the intention was to enable a market differentiation in scales/gauges, so that the Crest brandname was not only associated with largescale. It has been suggested that there may have been an ulterior motive (time will tell).
Fast forward to the current time. A company is operating from a single registered premises with two companies registered to the same address. One company decides on a change of address. Does it choose a business premises to conduct its business?
The premises chosen (for whatever reason) is the residential home of the employee who services/repairs the companies productline. Is this simply to ease potential servicing/repairs in the future by combining both websales and repairs/sericing in the same location? In a web based economy the need for a business premises and wharehousing is not an esential requirement, however, a registered business address is a legal requirement.
Why was the need felt to separate both companies in their entirety so that neither company had a possible legal hold on the other? Who is registered as the business propietor/owner? Who holds the property/intellectual rights to the productline? Who is legally responsible for the debts of either company?
Perhaps as stated earlier it is a simple temporary logistics move until suitable business premises are established.
It seems similar questions were asked by those ‘insiders’ back from 2004 up until the 2006 meltdown when another company with a long manufacturing tradition ceased to trade. Of cause that meltdown had little impact on the market as product supply was plentiful and post meltdown actually swamped the market to a saturation level causing prices to tumble.
Now many would say that it is none of our business who or what happens in the legal/business world as we have no financial interest. However, many do have a large financial stake with locomotives, rolling stock and electronic operating systems. Many purchased the new product line because it is a very good operating system and intended to expand their base system to encompass their entire locomotive roster. Alas, supply (or lack thereof) has been its only downside. Product enhancements are announced and test units viewed, but new product is slow coming to market as are the basic units essential to expand the operating system. I suppose the supply situation could be explained by the high acceptance rate of the product line causing market availability problems.
Some may say “move along, nothing to see here”, while others may say, “stay tuned and watch for the next exciting episode”. Or as Shakespeare once wrote, “Much to do about nothing.”
Unfortunately, this is not an isolated event at AC. It seems like we have a new and exciting episode every few months. One has to review the money history. A few years ago, Lewis announced major layoffs due to lack of sales. Then, they began direct sales in an effort to get rid of old stock that dealers weren’t buying. This was at severe discounts, reducing the dealers ability sell their inventory, loosing most of their dealers. Recently, there have been rock bottom pricing on inventory to meet payroll. Little has been replaced in the almost non existent inventory. I.e. a $30k shipment of track a small shipment of Revo and 250 locomotives in a year!! The AC booth was void of any merchandise. Just Scott and Navin sitting in the empty booth. At the AC forum. Scott noted he needed a million dollar investor to get back on their feet. Now divestiture(???) of a division. Sound exactly like Kodak!
I love my AC products and hope they can get out of this hole. But I am concerned about future support for my existing stock. I also have to think twice about future purchases as will there be any support in 2-3 yrs down the road.
It should also be noted that even though Lewis had the vision, Navin was the brains behind most of Revo development. He defined the product, oversaw the engineering and initial beta products through manufacture. We may know him as the repair guy. But inside he wears a different hat. That of a product specialist.
As Tim Stated" stay tuned and watch for the next exciting episode."