Large Scale Central

My Track Power Experience

This is absolutely NOT a condemnation of track power. I wanted to share my negative experience with track power, with as many facts as possible, that others may make better decisions.

First off, I never planned and don’t plan to use track power. I don’t even like the concept, find it confusing, and won’t be using it in ‘production’. But, as a way to get my little layout up and running, I thought it would be amusing to try running a short train using my only immediate source of power–an LGB starter power supply and ‘cab’.

Track power enthusiasts everywhere are saying, “Well, duh!”. So let me first acknowledge that from the start, I had NO expectations of success powering 100-150 ft of outdoor track with a micro-watt power supply. SO, that’s why I said to begin with I’m not judging track power as a viable option for folks to use. K?

I have what appears to be perfectly clean nickel silver handlaid track–about 150-180 ft of it, and have the little LGB power supply connected at one end. The track is not bright, but is also not apparently corroded. You can run your hand over 2 ft of it and pick up a LOT of silt. That’s SE Colorado–sand is everywhere, and not a week can go by you don’t have to dust the silt off of everything.

Putting the unit on full power will sometimes get the S4 rolling, but it can suddenly stop for no apparent reason, doing the expected crush on the 4 or 5 cars that follow. Manually nudging the S4 gets it going again, until it once more finds a dead spot. These dead spots cannot be spotted with the naked eye–there’s no way I can tell where the track conducts and where it doesn’t.

One thing I DO notice though is the horrible noise of the S4 electrical pickups sliding on the rail, over the silt, grinding their lives away on the rails.

So I guess my only observation is this: if after only one season of normal weather, this track is barely useable as is without cleaning, cleaning would be a requirement if a fella were to use track power. Granted, a real power supply would probably do better, cutting thru the crap so to speak. But, I’ve already had enough after only about 30 minutes of total run time. It ain’t for me. I knew that already, but this proves it.

The non-related issue, not related to your source of power that is, is the issue of realistic throttle control. This is my first experience running an electric train at all, and the first issue that has to be handled is bringing a ‘fast’ loco to a smooth stop via a smooth deceleration. As a rank beginner, I’m amazed at how hard this is using something like the child’s throttle I’m currently using. Sure, you wouldn’t expect much–but lord, it takes a steady hand and a lot of concentration to keep this train from jamming up.

Anyway–one thing that track power with kid’s equipment DOES do really well is demonstrate how dirty outdoor track gets, and how much it affects good operation. It has convinced me without question in my military mind that some form of track cleaning is a good thing, regardless of power source. For me, cleaning the track is a requirement even under battery power–'got nothing to do with power delivery, it has to do with that horrible SOUND!!!

Hi Kirk.

Mother nature sure is kind to us battery R/C makers.

We don’t have to say or do anything really to convince LS’ers that battery R/C is the way to go. It is just a matter of time.

Incidentally, once converted you don’t really need to “clean” rail. Even to get rid of the gritty sound. A number of laps around a track will generally sweep it clean of sand and grit etc.
You will need to sweep away debris especially in turnouts where normal detritus can get between the blades and jam them up.

When you eventually adopt battery R/C you can remove the track sliders. I also recommend you remove the traction tyres too.

We have photos somewhere on the site not as good as this one of my first run Shay running on tracks completely submerged in water on John Wilcox’s layout.

He said, no way can we run trains…

Pulled some swamp grass in a couple of spots to get all the way around, but we ran on every piece of his railroad.

I do believe the boy was amazed.

If I had to use any type of track power on the CCRy outdoors, I would have either given up 14 years ago or had a simple loop I could possibly maintain.

As it is, 1400+ feet and 75 or so turnouts, first and third Fridays the guys all come over and we run for 6-8 hours.

Sorry about the Colorado Silt, but glad to see you understand…

TOC

What an incredibly fun photo that would be…to get a run at it and drive through that water!! Childishly fun, I’d think!

Back on the dirty track topic…I did go around the track tonight with a ScotchBrite pad and have to admit I found a lot of gummed-up CreoCote on the rails, so it was not quite a fair evaluation. I got 'em all bright and shiny and of course it runs fine even with the little starter set supply. Actually runs faster than I’d ever want to run 'er, but I’ve got a light load tonight what with 4 or 5 LGB Christmas cars in tow.

Yup yup. I’m gettin’ pretty excited about getting the battery setup completed.

Regardless of whether or not it is required, even when running my battery trains, I make at least one pass with my track cleaner. The track cleaner consists of a broomstick screwed into a piece of 2x4 cut square. On the bottom of the 2x4 is some cotton fleece material stretched over some foam rubber and stapled to the wood. This simple cleaner is non-abrasive and does a nice job of cleaning mud splash from the rail while at the same time pushing twigs, leaves and the odd stone out of the way. I use the same tool on it’s edge (pad up) to spread ballast.

I’d like to think that TOC and Tony are my friends, so I won’t take too many hits when I tell you that I’ve been running track power outside for 3 seasons now. Aristo stainless track using aristo joiners, but with the larger head Phillips screw (from the tie strips). I feed indoors at one end, and outdoors at the other. 150 Ft. of Track, New England weather, many Pine and Maple trees. No conductivity problems, no track cleaning issues (other than using the pad) and trains run fine.

For almost a year 2/3’s of the new Wye was unpowered because I was trying to design some super-block lightning proof powering scheme. The complexity of my early wiring diagram kept me from installing it, leaning toward DCC or battery. This spring I somehow discovered a much simpler solution to my wiring challenge, and just got it done. Multiple trains are now possible, and the Wye will now handle both battery or track power.

I’m not ruling out battery for at least some of my trains. In fact, HoDePo has a Ryobi 18V drill set on sale for $50 that I might just pick up primarily for the battery & charger.

JR

There is another issue here.

Most folks can’t figure out how to have “loose” joints so the track can be “secured” to some type of base and yet allow for rail expansion/contraction.

While not a problem in several tons of loose stuff on the ground, when you are elevated, and have track hugging the edge, it can be.

There are ways, while retaining track power, none of which I consider “good”, and slip joints do not transmit power well, and any wire you use that you can solder to will corrode, and with power and nearness to ground, can totally disintegrate.

BT,DT.

TOC

Yup.

I said it works good now, not so sure it will work good 5 year from now.

I pulled up a Malibu 12 GA feeder that had been outside about a year. One end had connections exposed to weather. I tried to re-use the wire for another purpose, but couldn’t find any clean copper to solder to, even after cutting back 10 feet.

I picked up that Ryobi 18V drill at Ho-De-Po on friday and put one of the batteries in my trail car. It had been a while since I’d had a succesful run because of battery problems. I forgot how smooth battery power was. Now with a battery that has a more power available and a 1 hour charge, my battery ops will get more use.

JR

You mean to say you chaps are not up to date and using beamed power as in laser bus bars ?
Crikey ,
Mikey

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Now everybody will want one.

Seems like someone had tried IR technology but it fizzled.

Now there are soooo many ways to go that one has a lot to choose from and some are just barely okay, some are good and some are great.

Hey ! How about rubber band drive and a long wood stick for control ? Expensive… NO ! It’s just down right cheap.

Cheers,

It’s OK , TOC , we will just tell them that too much power melts the tracks .
Mike M

My son, the CIWS tech, has figured out a way to transmit power by microwave. Now, if I can just keep the antenna locked on without melting my Shay…

madwolf

Don’t know why people have so much trouble running on track power. If you take your time and lay the track right you can run quite a while. When we first started all there was was LGB 1600 curves and three foot straight track. We ran for about 16 years before we had any problems. We could take a LGB engine and run anytime. Aristo and other manufacturers we had to clean the track.

So, in Omaha, you can run in snow?
No splash of rain and ballast?
No slug tracks, no coyote pee, no pine needles…and no volcanic acidic soil?

Not going to start a war. Each person has his problems I guess.

Curmudgeon , You can run in any weather in Illinois. Rain, Sleat, Snow or Hail. on track power. Never have had a problem.

Some of us use track power to keep off the cats , worms ,slugs . A bit of rain and the water boils and dries out the ballast . Why do you think it’s called a Main Line ?

Never had any problems running on track power up here in the North Country…rain…snow or even sunshine…:smiley:

Warren

…try operating with track power…or have you guys ever thought of opertion, as in the way a real pike operates.
By the time you have wired up about 30 blocks, and figured how to control them from trackside (where you need to be, to operate), then considdered the price of all the rail clamps; the extra price of SS rail; the controls for every block, and of course maintaining the whole electrical system…you would soon start looking at R/C battery.

Everyone…yes, everyone that has visited our pike, soon looks to battery R/C.

If all you are doing is running in circles, as animation in the garden, then track power is for you…have fun.

“Operatiing” isn’t very popular here…yet. At the moment I only know of 2 of us that have any interest at all in ops…myself and Steve Featherkile. Thus, block systems can be very simple…since if one of us get’s our outdoor layout built we only need to accomodate 2 trains at a time. My railroad basically thinks like a class 1 and operates like a small branch line. :smiley: On my indoor layout I can run a train and switch industries very nicely. And I expect my outdoor layout will run just as smooth. As I spent most of my life in the electronics industry, electrical wiring on a layout does not intimidate me. No matter how my layout turns out, there will not be room to run more than about 3 trains. I am considering converting some of my locomotives to Aristo’s on-board system using track power. The real thing I don’t like about battery operation is that in most cases the locomotive isn’t large enough to hold the RC and battery. I really hate having the same car following my locomotive around all the time. That part just sticks in my craw.

But the nice part of this hobby is that we all can have it our way!

May the battery gods bless you,

Warren