Large Scale Central

My First Build

Modeling
#81

Pete Thornton said:

John Caughey said:

Are you going to run this engine? You’ll probably need weight on the front truck, adding weights is a B’mann fix.

John

Devon,
The “weight on the front truck” fix was for the long 4-wheel pilot truck on the 4-6-0. It was very rigid and didn’t track well on bumps. I personally never added weight, I just made it more flexible and it never derailed.
(I could make strong case for flexibility on your front axle. It should be able to rock about the center line of the frame by about 1/16th inch.)

On a 2-6-0, the pilot would help the drivers take the side forces as they hit the curve. Technically the pilot needs a centering spring, so on a curve the outer wheel is helping pull the loco round the bend. In practice, it hardly ever works on our trains, as we don’t have the same weight distribution, flange sizes, etc.

While a couple of washers won’t hurt, a light spring is all you may need on your 2-6-0. maybe not that. I’d try it before you add weight - you can always add some later.

I am toying with a spring. Where it is mounted now I could put a spring there and move the pivot point back. But I don’t know how I would do it so that the spring could pivot back and forth as the pilot pivots. I have to think about this.

#82

Take a look at how Bachmann did it, they incorporated a spring into the mount. I think that Aristo did the same.

#83

Devon,

This is the Bachmann 4-6-0 spring and slider mentioned above and by Kevin over at MLS.
The only copy of this photo is a bit small, but you can just see the slot in the underside of the pilot frame, the big spring under the washer, and the pivot on top if the pilot truck.

#84

Pete Thornton said:

Devon,

This is the Bachmann 4-6-0 spring and slider mentioned above and by Kevin over at MLS.
The only copy of this photo is a bit small, but you can just see the slot in the underside of the pilot frame, the big spring under the washer, and the pivot on top if the pilot truck.

I was afraid that was what he was talking about and there is no way to do that at this point, not without a major rebuild. How is it done on the two wheel front trucks like the two different 2-6-0 or the connie. I can’t build the slot at this point. And I don’t know but after looking at the various two wheel front truck models they don’t appear to have that slot but I don’t know.

I do have an idea though I am going to try out. But pictures of a connie or mogul would help.

#85

Ok so I think I figured it out. I put a spring where the old mounting screw was and moved the pivot back to just in front of the 1st driver. I ran a cap screw up from the bottom and through a spring and then used a fender washer and nylon lock nut. As the weight is applied it compresses the spring. The bolt acts as a plunger as Kevin suggested. The top of the nylon nut rests on the bottom of the steam chest and is able to pivot freely. I will add a strip of brass for it to slide along so it holds up longer than on just plastic. Anyway it solved the problem of the short picot arm and the down pressure issue.

The only problem can see is that it might still be a little short. This is more aesthetic maybe at this point. I will see how it goes.

#86

Devon,

You did good. It is just like this full scale leading truck…

Next up is a Gresley two wheel lead truck:

(http://d240vprofozpi.cloudfront.net/locos/V/v2pony.gif)

Again, you can see a round plate on top that supports the locomotive’s frame. The top hinges for the swing links can be seen on either side of it. The long tongue to the right of the locomotive actually goes back and attaches to the loco frame with a pivot. When the truck rotates, it rotates around the pivot at the end of the tongue (out of the picture to the right), while the round plate on top supports the locomotive frame, the rest of the truck moving laterally by means of the swing links. This is an adaptation of the original Bissell design.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/p/190994/2085347.aspx

#87

Nice link Joe and great build Devon

#88

That’ll work. Good job.

Another idea to consider is to move the spring back to the pivot point. I just took a look at my Lionel “G” Atlantic, and that is the approach that Lionel took. The spring puts the swing arm in compression, pressing down on the wheels.

If you can assure that your solution does not wobble off and get stuck, I think yours might be the better idea.

#89

Steve Featherkile said:

That’ll work. Good job.

Another idea to consider is to move the spring back to the pivot point. I just took a look at my Lionel “G” Atlantic, and that is the approach that Lionel took. The spring puts the swing arm in compression, pressing down on the wheels.

If you can assure that your solution does not wobble off and get stuck, I think yours might be the better idea.

I don’t think it can wobble off and get stuck. The anchor point wont allow any forward or backward travel only the desired pivot motion. And the steam chest bottom is plenty wide enough front to back that when the truck swings in an arc it (the nut) is resting on the bottom of the steam chest with plenty of room to spare. It stops pivoting before the nut reaches the back of the steam chest.

I also figured out how to move the wheels forward a little to place them right without having to rebuild the whole truck. I will saw it in half cross ways and glue in a spacer that will move the wheels forward. Then just for added insurance I will drill through the spacer and the piece I glued it to and pin it with some brass rod. That should move it forward enough to look right and be strong enough to hold up to abuse.

All in all I believe this to be a good design but only time will tell when it is run down the track.

Thanks everyone for the ideas. This was one spot where lack of experience was a problem and my forum buddies came through.

#90

(http://largescalecentral.com/public/album_photo/e6/cb/01/1c91c_c11b.jpg)

(http://largescalecentral.com/public/album_photo/ea/cb/01/1c920_d1d0.jpg)

So here are a couple of close ups after it was extended and leaf springs added

#91

Devon, That should work great. The “lead” truck is used for leading the engine into a curve. Placing the spring where you have gives that arrangement more leverage to push the wheels down. It also provides 2 points of “attachment” to the loco as the real thing does. One fixed and the other weight bearing. When the wheels head into a curve the back point will try to move to the outside of the curve while your sliding weight bearing point will pull the front of the loco into the curve as it should.

That is going to be a very nice engine when you finish.

#92

In a model train loco, the lead truck does not lead the engine into the curve as it does on a full size loco. It is only there for appearance, as the weight of our models is not to scale and our curves are much sharper.

It is a constant source of derailing and many ways of keeping it on the rails have been tried. The most successful way has been to make it flexible in all directions.

Other ways have been to weight it or provide downward force as you have done.

I believe that you will be successful with your method though.

#93

You want it floppy and a little bit heavy. Get rid of the spring thing and add a few oz of weight.

#94

Tom Ruby said:

You want it floppy and a little bit heavy. Get rid of the spring thing and add a few oz of weight.

Tom, I don’t mean this to be snotty though it kinda sounds that way. I am looking for an honest assessment of why your way is the way when it is contrary to what others have said.

Why ditch the spring and add weight? I have been told by others to ditch the weight and add the spring. I realize that there are more than one way to skin a cat. Whats your thinking on this? I toyed with both options and went with the spring on the suggestion of others. I have no experience so I have no opinion on which is better. The nice thing about this design is I can easily toy with both ideas once I get it running and head to Chuck’s house to run it (yes thats a hint, Steve lives to far away). The spring to me seems like a good positive down force but can see where it adds a friction point. Where as weight maybe a challenge to get enough on there to get the same down force but wont add friction.

So in all humbleness I am looking for an honest assessment of why you think weight over spring.

#95

Won’t hurt to try both and see which works best. There are a lot of variables at work, here.

#96

Steve Featherkile said:

Won’t hurt to try both and see which works best. There are a lot of variables at work, here.

It will be easy to do. I can run it with the spring first and see what it does. The spring is as easy as removing the nut and it is all gone. then I can weight it and see what it does. If weight is the way to go then I have an idea for that based on the picture of the truck above. I could cast a lead box thing that fits between my springs and add some detail and it will look great. Even if the spring works I may add a styrene box. I think it will dress up the truck.

#97

Ok so a little more got done. Now that I am out of school (taking a year of to write the book) I have a bit more time that I feel I can devote to this.

I added the LED, reflector, and lens to the head light. The lens is that plastic stuff that everything comes in these days and the reflector is out of a mini mag light. I used a 5mm LED.

I also added the supports for the bottom of the pilot up to the pilot deck. This picture also shows the homemade springs for the first driver.

(http://largescalecentral.com/public/album_photo/fe/cb/01/1c934_6560.jpg)

And finally this picture shows the two pop off valves and the whistle I made.

In addition I filled around the domes with some putty and everything got a fresh coat of primer. I will paint the whistle and pop off valves gold metallic.

Next will be to put the linkages for the cylinder valves and the sand lines. After that I think I really need to do the cab. I have been holding off on the cab because I have a few ideas and don’t know what I want to do. One thought is to make the front wall permanent so that I can run my plumbing and whistle line, bell line, hand rails, etc. right though or to it without having to break them. Not sure how I can do the soft ropes without it fixed permenantly. Then I have thought about making a one piece cab and breaking all the lines right at the cab wall.

Another thing is the way to build the cab itself. I am going to make it in a layered affair to give it depth and also leave a way to paint it with the windows out then slide the windows in and assemble the cab. In doing that I am considering making the outer layer wood veneer. Nothing matches the look of real painted wood. It absorbs paint instead of having paint laying on top. I might be over-thinking it but I think the texture of real wood would look nice.

Anyway we are getting close.

#98

I might be over-thinking it but I think the texture of real wood would look nice.

Over thinking here too, but it’s really hard to get scale grain structure with real wood, isn’t it?

#99

Joe Zullo said:

I might be over-thinking it but I think the texture of real wood would look nice.

Over thinking here too, but it’s really hard to get scale grain structure with real wood, isn’t it?

Yeah it wouldn’t have proper grain that’s for sure. All though some 80 grit sand paper making some deep scratches and then some fine grain to smooth it out again. More than likely I will do a test piece and see what I get. I am sure I am expecting more than I will get and in the end it will be styrene.

#100

Bored and alone at work today. So I made a stencil of my cab parts and figured out what I will do for my Stevenson valve linkage and came up with my builders plate. I made a scale size one as well that I will make a water slide decal of. I tis the correct # and date.

(http://www.largescalecentral.com/public/album_photo/0b/cc/01/1c940_ffc8.jpg)