Large Scale Central

MTH locos vs. LGB/PIKO/USA/Aristo?

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#41

Greg Elmassian said:

you asked for experience. I don’t have any MTH (I don’t think Steve does either)

But I do have limited experience with MTH and the DCS system.

Under track power, and running DCS they are definitely tweeky, the system was never designed to handle the electrical environment of a large layout with sometimes large voltage drops. Even the biggest proponent of G scale MTH I know, Raymond Manley has to put filters on the track and in lighted cars to help “preserve” the DCS signal.

Running MTH locos on DC will eliminate this issue but then you give up the remote control and all the features. DCC has come to the smaller MTH scales but not G scale. Promised but not delivered.

Now, as to power pickup, no better than the skates on LGB locos, although MTH skates seem to catch on switches slightly more.

Power train reliability? Well, they make a big noise on ball bearing motors, but the drivetrain is not orders of magnitude better than Aristo or USAT… a bit better.

Hope that answers some of your questions.

Greg

Since the MTH skates seem to catch on the switches slightly more wouldn’t it be intriguing figure out how to modify them so they don’t catch on the switches ?

Wait you don’t own any MTH or have any experience with their locomotives(well he didn’t specify locomotives but he did say skates and they are usually on locomotives) and neither does Steve ? I read it a few times and I may be mistaken but not sure so I’m gonna read it again before I post!

Edit: Damnation …to late I posted it

#42

#43

But I does respects you Rooster

Edit: right wrong thread, maybe

#44

¿ ɹəʇsooɹ said:

If it weren’t for that dag burn subject, you could be making a point, but as soon as vs is seen, emotions kick in and opinions are defended regardless of the OP’s intention as posted.

#45

John Caughey said:

¿ ɹəʇsooɹ said:

If it weren’t for that dag burn subject, you could be making a point, but as soon as vs is seen, emotions kick in and opinions are defended regardless of the OP’s intention as posted.

Who is VS and where did you see him/her?

#46

Bill . said:

Joe Paonessa

Lewiston, NY

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I’m gonna tell you right now Joe when you invade my territory of “Not Respected” I tend to get upset as you ignored my no trespassing signs!

I would like you to follow me to the gate at the end of the road onto “Respected” territory again.

Yeap! I’d follow you there!!! Tuff to get respect here… easier to just bash stuff.

#47

Bill . said:

John Caughey said:

¿ ɹəʇsooɹ said:

If it weren’t for that dag burn subject, you could be making a point, but as soon as vs is seen, emotions kick in and opinions are defended regardless of the OP’s intention as posted.

Who is VS and where did you see him/her?

Yeah I tink dis is Wendell’s Palooka; ‘MTH locos vs. LGB/PIKO/USA/Aristo?’ There hiding in the middle! Didja see it?

#48

David, Piko’s 1:32 is limited to the old MDC box cars, hoppers, and refrigerator cars. Their caboose is 1:24. Their US locos (Mogul, 0-6-0, Camelback) are of indistinguishable scale being freelance, but ostensibly in the 1:27 - 1:29 realm if you look at overall proportions. Their European stuff is far more “scale,” but still coming in around 1:26 to match the physical size of LGB etc. With regard to low-price 1:32 locomotives, MTH is the only dog in the house.

Greg, in terms of why folks would still buy DCS stuff, “back compatibility.” There’s a whole lot of MTH stuff out there that isn’t DCC-compatible, and if you’re into 1:32 and want to run it with all its bells and whistles, DCS is the only way to do it. You can buy one TIU for $350 and run all your “legacy” locomotives, or buy a DCC system and have to spend an extra $150 - $200 per locomotive to convert them to DCC.*

While we agree it’s definitely a good thing that MTH has embraced DCC, I’m simply not as pessimistic about the future of DCS as you are. I see folks still using decades-old proprietary control technology on many fronts even though there’s much newer tech available. People use what they’re used to, and I certainly don’t see MTH dropping support for DCS any time soon.

Bottom line, those who are attracted to DCC as a universal command protocol are going to go DCC anyway. MTH’s decision to make their decoders compatible isn’t going to cause their existing customers to jump ship away from DCS. If they’re to be swayed, it will be because they want to run DCC-equipped locos from other manufacturers on their railroads.

Later,

K

  • Yes, you can get DCC systems for around $350, but they’re not 10-amp systems like the TIU. If you want a 10-amp DCC system (which is widely accepted as the minimum for large scale DCC), you’re shelling out quite a bit more money.
#49

Funny you telling me about what is widely accepted for DCC… but that aside, you can get a DCC system for $150 not $350 and you can add a booster, even 10 amps. (when I first espoused 10 amps as necessary, everyone told me I was nuts)

Do you know the price on the TIU and handset? $350… so I submit there is no appreciable difference in price. You can take a $150 NCE powercab and still have $200 for a 10 amp booster. Also note that DCS is much more touchy about power, so many people use the very expensive Bridgewerks as opposed to the inexpensive $45 meanwell units that work perfectly for DCC.

Maybe you don’t know what MERG is? They make inexpensive 10 amp boosters and a plethora of other items.

Kevin, you really need to do some research on all the current DCC options before you use 10 year old data to substantiate your position. There is a ton out there.

Bottom line, DCS is NOT significantly cheaper as a system, and the MTH DCS decoders are WAY more expensive than DCC top of the line, and if you want to modify a loco that is not MTH it’s even more expensive, since it needs custom machining for addition of a flywheel, a custom tachometer strip and mounting of the optical reader.

So, it’s great to have MTH see the writing on the wall for the future. Sure, people that have older, non DCC MTH will stick with DCS, and they most likely will stay there.

But my point was that DCS will slowly go away, and people starting out will likely be all DCC. It’s good for MTH and good for the hobby.

Greg

#50

Wow, where to even start???

Making inflammatory statements about where the future will be without even considering where it is now??? Wow. How many DCS users are out there? Can’t be many because he does not use it! Wow.

Kevin, no sense telling him anything as he can’t process any new info or accept anything that does no go along with his beliefs. Personal attacks, that just comes from people who don’t know the history. Some should read his post about 3 d printing that Fp40 being a waste of effort. I can’t really name many positive posts from him about any subject. Just bashes and trashes about things he knows little about.

Isn’t this whole post about how well MTH engines run???

#51

I’m presenting facts, Joe you are presenting emotion and personal remarks.

It’s clear that ANY negative comment about MTH inflames you Joe, as stated in your post.

Greg

#52

my personal view is the dcs equiped bachmann consolidation i have seen on you tube is the best sound/chuff/smoke combination

out there, and its the standard i would aspire to for all my electric steam locos

but as all my standard gauge is 1 29 mth does not now or never will appeal to me,or any of accucrafts 1 32 too

but if i started to model uk standard gauge i would go for 1 32, as starting from fresh

#53

Now this IS inflammatory: (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)(skip to 1:15 if you are impatient)

There is a recall for this product, if you have one, don’t run it…

http://mthtrains.com/30-73432

#54

http://mthtrains.com/prod-search/%20?f[0]=field_catalog%3A7123&f[1]=field_product_line%3A6395&f[2]=field_product_classification%3A7037

As you can see, the H0 stuff can now be had “dcc ready”. From what I am reading, The Genius has had a lot of resistance from the nmra loving dcc crowd in H0 ( no belittling…fact) and most won’t buy a different control system that may or may not do what they want it to do.

Why buy one with the stuff you would have to rip out to do what you want it to?

What I looked at on the MTH catalog, was a dcc-ready at $130, same engine with PS3 was $200. Why would you buy a $200 engine to throw $70 away and buy a proper decoder?

Where else can you buy a product that has their own author to write “how to make it work” books? Barry Broskowitz is on what, Volume Four now?

I have a fair amount of MTH experience. And been following the antics of the Boy Genius for years. I have a varnished maple case, velvet lined, with a set of gold plated side cutters I take out for special occasions. I have gutted a whole bunch of MTH 0 locos, and installed Dallee DCRU’s or QSI reversers. I have gutted a fair share of LS units, too, including the code wheel tape and reader.

The Genius looks to what area he can conquer next. I had personal involvement with some of his folks when they were getting ready to spring their particular madness to LS, and the entire process went from good to a disaster in short order.

Drops support of one line to push another…they are apparently stretched pretty thin now.

So…you want to tie your wagon to that particular horse…better hope it doesn’t go the Polk way and drop support on you.

Seems to be a problem cropping up in several areas now, with various manufacturers.

TOC

#55

Wendell Hanks said:

From Jerry’s excellent website:

"He (Jerry Barnes) finds the sliding skates and power pickups on the wheels pickup the power from the rails very well and constant cleaning of the track is not needed, unless he has run a live steam engine!"

In Jerry’s excellent website, he references the electrical pickup qualities of his MTH locos not requiring “constant cleaning of the track is not needed.”

He may be on to a comparison that has not been done nor discussed prior: MTH’s comparative advantage under track power vs. the other brand names.

If there is a definitive difference, I am interested as the Palm Desert, Calif., Living Desert layout favors brands other than MTH only because of size.

Your experience?

I’m still not understanding how this turned into a DCS/DCC/ABCDEFG thread because I have re-read the original post and have come to the conclusion that perhaps Wendell knows Greg and Steve and have discussed the probably of pickup issues with skates. I also think that there,their,they’re might be some secret inside MTHasonic secret handshakes that I missed? Guess left coast MTHasons have a different secret hand shake?

Edit: forgot to thank Wendell for this useful post!

#56

Curmudgeon mcneely said:

http://mthtrains.com/prod-search/%20?f[0]=field_catalog%3A7123&f[1]=field_product_line%3A6395&f[2]=field_product_classification%3A7037

As you can see, the H0 stuff can now be had “dcc ready”. From what I am reading, The Genius has had a lot of resistance from the nmra loving dcc crowd in H0 ( no belittling…fact) and most won’t buy a different control system that may or may not do what they want it to do.

Why buy one with the stuff you would have to rip out to do what you want it to?

What I looked at on the MTH catalog, was a dcc-ready at $130, same engine with PS3 was $200. Why would you buy a $200 engine to throw $70 away and buy a proper decoder?

Where else can you buy a product that has their own author to write “how to make it work” books? Barry Broskowitz is on what, Volume Four now?

I have a fair amount of MTH experience. And been following the antics of the Boy Genius for years. I have a varnished maple case, velvet lined, with a set of gold plated side cutters I take out for special occasions. I have gutted a whole bunch of MTH 0 locos, and installed Dallee DCRU’s or QSI reversers. I have gutted a fair share of LS units, too, including the code wheel tape and reader.

The Genius looks to what area he can conquer next. I had personal involvement with some of his folks when they were getting ready to spring their particular madness to LS, and the entire process went from good to a disaster in short order.

Drops support of one line to push another…they are apparently stretched pretty thin now.

So…you want to tie your wagon to that particular horse…better hope it doesn’t go the Polk way and drop support on you.

Seems to be a problem cropping up in several areas now, with various manufacturers.

TOC

It’s all good!

#57

Here’s Wendell’s question Rooster:

MTH’s comparative advantage under track power vs. the other brand names.

So, this is not just about skates, it about exactly the question above. It’s the suitability of the MTH system under track power, for their Palm Desert museum layout.

Interesting post by TOC, so you can buy HO MTH with or without the decoder, and apparently it’s from demands by the HO customers.

This is clearly a departure from the normal MTH sales strategy, but as I say, the writing is on the wall.

Greg

#58

Greg Elmassian said:

Here’s Wendell’s question Rooster:

MTH’s comparative advantage under track power vs. the other brand names.

So, this is not just about skates, it about exactly the question above. It’s the suitability of the MTH system under track power, for their Palm Desert museum layout.

Interesting post by TOC, so you can buy HO MTH with or without the decoder, and apparently it’s from demands by the HO customers.

This is clearly a departure from the normal MTH sales strategy, but as I say, the writing is on the wall.

Greg

Greg

I have re-read Wendell’s question a few times and re-posted it a few times as well. What you wrote was not the “Original Posters” question which is disappointing as I know you personally like to stay on topic. I have also readily explained numerous times that I really don’t care for my reputation on LSC as I don’t think it is fair considering this is the only forum I post on! I’m really hoping that it will change for the better real soon!

#59

“Thread Drift” is quite useful in discussions. Happens in normal conversations, face to face, so why naught in Bob’s Living Room?

Responses to such “Thread Drift” should be encouraged, not the other way around.

TOC

#60

Curmudgeon mcne…

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Doesn’t hurt to “thank” someone every once and awhile either.