I’ve used the Birchwood Casey aluminum black with halfway decent results, though I was terribly disappointed with how it worked on my aluminum rail. It turned it black–which was nice–then continued the process to where I had white aluminum oxide powder on the rails-which wasn’t so nice. The aluminum black does work quite well on the brass, so you can buy a gallon of the aluminum black and use it for both metals. Alas, the brass black doesn’t work on aluminum.
Later,
K
Kevin,
Did you rinse it after one minute?
In my “former life” one customer (gear, sprocket, pulley producer) had a setup with fairly large tanks to get the parts blackened. If I remember properly they had several tanks with circulating water to stop the process at the right point.
Hi,
I suppose most makers include intructions with their products. Did they write anything about purchasing several tanks for circulating water?
I am still waiting for Mr. Muellers examples of Gun Shop Large Scale blackeners-modelling. Is it truth or fiction? Who knows? Anybody else wants to know?
Have Fun
Juergen Zirner
The problem with chemical blackeners which nobody ever mentions is that they react differently with different hardnesses of the same metal .
Thus the rolled brass ,say of a rail , is harder than cast brass . This results in the cast item blacking more rapidly than drawn or rolled . The same applies to aluminium , made worse by the additives in alu , Dural is harder than alu , Hiduminium is harder than both . The best way to blacken alu is to black anodise it . As this is a bit problematic for most of us , we just have to suck it and see . If you are blackening wheels , you will just have to be patient , or paint them . Chemical blacking is not half as good as it is cracked up to be , I find it useful , but would never depend on it .
The blacking on alu car wheels is usually anodised . Remember that alu wheels on your models are usually cut from billets of drawn alu ,so it is hard and resistant to chemical etching .
Mike
Mike,
Anodizing is not that expensive, even for small batches. In my “former life” I’ve produced quite a few measuring fixtures, always had them anodized because that looks much better than even nicely brushed alu.
Zirner said:
Hi,I suppose most makers include intructions with their products. Did they write anything about purchasing several tanks for circulating water?
I am still waiting for Mr. Muellers examples of Gun Shop Large Scale blackeners-modelling. Is it truth or fiction? Who knows? Anybody else wants to know?
Have Fun
Juergen Zirner
It is always a pleasure to find out how interested people are in other applications for a product they use on a daily basis. Even more so when they see the results from that same material next time one shows up with a sample. Works for me in all kinds of situations - best when they then say “Hmmmmm you know we also sell “this” product… I wonder if you could use that??”
I learn something new every day! [/b]
Mr Mueller,
What are you trying to say by quotnig yourself? This thread is on the way, where some people with practical experience regarding metall working try to exchange their knowledge in order to help each other. I try to learn something, which I do not know yet.
Please do not disturb it with your rather childish behavior. We know, you are are a great virtual modeller of RhB stuff. And you are too modest to show anything of your finished LS work anywhere. We know, you have no time to finish something, because you have to interfer with your profound knowledge in every forum of this world where they have not yet kicked you out.
You are simply much to clever for this world.
Please contribute to the theme of this thread. Not with things you believe to be or heard off, but with profound examples of Metal Blackeners. Stand up and deliver. And do not try to write this thead against the wall.
Juergen Zirner
Zirner said:
Mr Mueller,What are you trying to say by quotnig yourself? This thread is on the way, where some people with practical experience regarding metall working try to exchange their knowledge in order to help each other. I try to learn something, which I do not know yet.
Please do not disturb it with your rather childish behavior. We know, you are are a great virtual modeller of RhB stuff. And you are too modest to show anything of your finished LS work anywhere. We know, you have no time to finish something, because you have to interfer with your profound knowledge in every forum of this world where they have not yet kicked you out.
You are simply much to clever for this world.Please contribute to the theme of this thread. Not with things you believe to be or heard off, but with profound examples of Metal Blackeners. Stand up and deliver. And do not try to write this thead against the wall.
Juergen Zirner
As an exception I’ll reply to you:
The reason I quoted my original post is: Those who can read and do comprehend English have a clear advantage; which then also explains why you would be the only one with additional questions.
As far as metal blackeners are concerned (or for that matter umpteen other processes), it is very simple, read the manufacturer’s instructions and chances are very good that all will be well. Provided you are able to read and comprehend!
Zirner, no one really likes what you are doing. Why don’t you go somewhere else, it is just plain boring. Take this as as a polite request to get lost. You can try attacking me to see if you get me mad, but I’m even more patient than you, so you will just continue to make yourself look foolish.
Hans, congratulations on your restraint. Keep it up and Zirner will spiral himself right into another galaxy where he can entertain an alien culture with his unfunny and unhelpful posts. Maybe they will be appreciated there.
Regards, Greg
Thank you Greg.
HJ lives just a stone’s throw (western style) from me. Out here in this part of North America things get spred out a wee tad. 
So it is not uncommon for a professional to wear more than one hat. A gunsmith may also be the local blacksmith and most likely the resident metallurgist for miles around…just as you might find that when something ails you that the local vet might be the place to go…and most country doctors are often asked to assist with vetenary problems. It’s just a sharing of knowledge and help that’s so common in this part of the country. Therefore I don’t find it strange at all that HJ would seek the help of a gunsmith for blackening chemicals.
HJ, most of the rest of us appreciate your involvement in this conversation.
Warren
Thanks guys,
On that gun smith business, actually I got “wised” up by a customer of ours - he’s a gunsmith who builds the occasional small custom N layout in his spare time and lives three valleys over (Slocan).
Since he ordered “a few” of our trees, I decided one day to deliver rather than ship, always nice to put a face to a voice and name. I’m not really into guns, but he showed me his shop and how he does “things”; very interesting stuff!
Apart from getting a little demo on finishes, he also mentioned a source of Sitka spruce - some guy who builds specialty vintage airplane stuff and only the best will do - perfectly good stuff for building models, too, even if it is “seconds”.
Yep out here, away from the “big smoke”, it is a different “climate”, people actually talk with each other and, unless one’s “a bit strange”, people share quite readily.
And yes, we have a gunshop here in town, they have a good stock of Birchwood Casey items and a nice relaxed attitude.
Zirner said:Re-read his post. It seemed very clear to me. He said gunsmiths know how to do touch-ups on blackened metal and would be willing to share that info with modelers. Neither of these statements comes anywhere close to deserving the scorn you're displaying. He did not say that he gets gunsmiths to do the work for him.
Hi, I am still waiting for Mr. Muellers examples of Gun Shop Large Scale blackeners-modelling. Is it truth or fiction? Who knows? Anybody else wants to know?
Hey, its friday, and time for my weekly “Knock it off” post, brought to you today by Zirner.
About the only way to color raw aluminum is anodizing. We used to send all of our aluminum castings out for clear, brown, bronze, black, -whatever the customer wanted- for anodizing.
If you don’t, the aluminum will oxidize and turn chalky over time.
I think Gary Raymond black wheels are dyed by the “gunsmith method.” It looks that way to me, anyway. We have several gunsmiths in our area, and I think I’ll take a sample wheel over and get it blackened. Maybe I can buy the dye and do it myself.
jb
Hi Folks.
Sorry, I seam to have the wrong attitude for these kind of diskussions. Maybe I am just too impatient.
Most people I talk too or work with give a clear answer to a question and suggest things they have tried and know it works. Just plain experience. If fellows like Chris Walas, McCalla or David Fletcher give me an advise, I can be sure, they tried it themselves and know, what they are talking about. I admire and study their modelling, as well as many others. I try to learn from the best.
Crossovers are no problem neither. I have no difficulties asking my dentist about metal castings or resins. Or to buy my weathering material at the next shop fpr artists supply instead at the local toy shop. Or ask the old man, restoring old musical instruments, for his traditional tints and varnishes.
Sorry folks for disturbing your way to answer the question of Metal Blackeners. . Or for trying to learn something new over here. I wll not do it again. I´ll ask elsewhere.
Have Fun
Juergen Zirner
Honestly
It seems to be you vendetta against a certain member who is attempting to answer you questions that is really turning people off…I really don’t see any PROOF of your modeling…or anyone badgering you to pony up with PROOF that you aare actually modeling anything…and DOES IT REALLY MATTER who is modeling what??? THIS IS A HOBBY…to what extent someone participates i up to them, I’ve seen the work that HJ does…wheres yours?
Good lord…he answered your question, then you DEMANDED proof…its not that anyone minds your questions, but you seemto have a really bad attitude about it…notice two other posters have noticed this as well? Well done Ray BTW…
Hey , Bart , I think that was uncalled for .
The bloke has just apologised .
Try writing an article in German for his magazine , and you will see the problem of expressing yourself in a foreign language .
First of all…I was writng my reply before he posted his and yeah it took me that long to write it…and I think most folks will agree…this is not about English vs German…incidentallyas a Sci Fi modeler I cross posts with English, German, Dutch, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Canadians, Klingons, Mexicans, and even people from Kentucky…This is about Zirner having a problem with HJ…I noticed he didn’t question Keven Strong’s reply? Or anyone else’s? And its not just in this thread…What’s the axe to grind? This is an honest observation on my part, not meant to be critical or anything, just mildly curious…
Bart Salmons said:
First of all…I was writng my reply before he posted his and yeah it took me that long to write it…and I think most folks will agree…this is not about English vs German…incidentallyas a Sci Fi modeler I cross posts with English, German, Dutch, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Canadians, Klingons, Mexicans, and even people from Kentucky…This is about Zirner having a problem with HJ…I noticed he didn’t question Keven Strong’s reply? Or anyone else’s? And its not just in this thread…What’s the axe to grind? This is an honest observation on my part, not meant to be critical or anything, just mildly curious…
Bart, My impression is that Zirner has a problem with a) my “virtual” modeling, which in clear text means he doesn’t have access to the pictures I very selectively post in a certain forum. b) my lively participation in various fora. He seems to mind that I have just as many resources on hand to find information other people are looking for. Of course I don’t have to provide a picture with every bit of info. Most of us have enough modeling experience to figure out the rest. c) my submissions to the GARTENBAHNprofi, since that magazine is in direkt competition with the mag he writes (used to write?) for. d) my translations. This concerns both the articles from the GARTENBAHNprofi, as well as any translations i.e. the LGB Insolvency Saga. e) my Eastern Mountain Models Ltd. business; at one time he “opined” that our trees have no bark texture. Which turned out to be a matter of how close one gets with the camera in order to catch a LS tree. But judge for yourself
Ponderosa
Spruce
Larch/Tamarack f) my tendency to call a spade a spade - from what I observed he considers that to be his exclusive territory - especially when it comes to commenting on the “relative merits” of “G” as a “scale”. g) my still being involved in scales from Z to LS, since one of his war cries is “Never again HO!”. Fine! I like to try out different “stuff” in different scales, not least because our business stretches from Z to LS. there’s more but the above should do, it all boils down to a rather large chip on the shoulder. With the exception in this thread, I just ignore him now, seems to work.
TIME, GENTLEMEN–PLEASE!!!
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Kevin,Did you rinse it after one minute?
As I’m no longer using aluminum rail, I’ve had little cause to do any further investigation. Now, if someone could come up with a chemical blackener that works on the AMS rail–which seems to be second only to Aristocraft in terms of natural tarnish resistance. I’ll give it another year before I break down and just paint the blasted stuff!
Later,
K