Large Scale Central

Metal blackeners?

Modeling
#21

Mr Mueller,

What are you trying to say by quotnig yourself? This thread is on the way, where some people with practical experience regarding metall working try to exchange their knowledge in order to help each other. I try to learn something, which I do not know yet.

Please do not disturb it with your rather childish behavior. We know, you are are a great virtual modeller of RhB stuff. And you are too modest to show anything of your finished LS work anywhere. We know, you have no time to finish something, because you have to interfer with your profound knowledge in every forum of this world where they have not yet kicked you out.
You are simply much to clever for this world.

Please contribute to the theme of this thread. Not with things you believe to be or heard off, but with profound examples of Metal Blackeners. Stand up and deliver. And do not try to write this thead against the wall.

Juergen Zirner

#22
Zirner said:
Mr Mueller,

What are you trying to say by quotnig yourself? This thread is on the way, where some people with practical experience regarding metall working try to exchange their knowledge in order to help each other. I try to learn something, which I do not know yet.

Please do not disturb it with your rather childish behavior. We know, you are are a great virtual modeller of RhB stuff. And you are too modest to show anything of your finished LS work anywhere. We know, you have no time to finish something, because you have to interfer with your profound knowledge in every forum of this world where they have not yet kicked you out.
You are simply much to clever for this world.

Please contribute to the theme of this thread. Not with things you believe to be or heard off, but with profound examples of Metal Blackeners. Stand up and deliver. And do not try to write this thead against the wall.

Juergen Zirner


Dear Zirner,

As an exception I’ll reply to you:

The reason I quoted my original post is: Those who can read and do comprehend English have a clear advantage; which then also explains why you would be the only one with additional questions.

As far as metal blackeners are concerned (or for that matter umpteen other processes), it is very simple, read the manufacturer’s instructions and chances are very good that all will be well. Provided you are able to read and comprehend! :wink: :slight_smile:

#23

Zirner, no one really likes what you are doing. Why don’t you go somewhere else, it is just plain boring. Take this as as a polite request to get lost. You can try attacking me to see if you get me mad, but I’m even more patient than you, so you will just continue to make yourself look foolish.

Hans, congratulations on your restraint. Keep it up and Zirner will spiral himself right into another galaxy where he can entertain an alien culture with his unfunny and unhelpful posts. Maybe they will be appreciated there.

Regards, Greg

#24

Thank you Greg.

HJ lives just a stone’s throw (western style) from me. Out here in this part of North America things get spred out a wee tad. :smiley: So it is not uncommon for a professional to wear more than one hat. A gunsmith may also be the local blacksmith and most likely the resident metallurgist for miles around…just as you might find that when something ails you that the local vet might be the place to go…and most country doctors are often asked to assist with vetenary problems. It’s just a sharing of knowledge and help that’s so common in this part of the country. Therefore I don’t find it strange at all that HJ would seek the help of a gunsmith for blackening chemicals.

HJ, most of the rest of us appreciate your involvement in this conversation.

Warren

#25

Thanks guys, :wink:

On that gun smith business, actually I got “wised” up by a customer of ours - he’s a gunsmith who builds the occasional small custom N layout in his spare time and lives three valleys over (Slocan).
Since he ordered “a few” of our trees, I decided one day to deliver rather than ship, always nice to put a face to a voice and name. I’m not really into guns, but he showed me his shop and how he does “things”; very interesting stuff!
Apart from getting a little demo on finishes, he also mentioned a source of Sitka spruce - some guy who builds specialty vintage airplane stuff and only the best will do - perfectly good stuff for building models, too, even if it is “seconds”.

Yep out here, away from the “big smoke”, it is a different “climate”, people actually talk with each other and, unless one’s “a bit strange”, people share quite readily.
And yes, we have a gunshop here in town, they have a good stock of Birchwood Casey items and a nice relaxed attitude.

#26
Zirner said:
Hi, I am still waiting for Mr. Muellers examples of Gun Shop Large Scale blackeners-modelling. Is it truth or fiction? Who knows? Anybody else wants to know?
Re-read his post. It seemed very clear to me. He said gunsmiths know how to do touch-ups on blackened metal and would be willing to share that info with modelers. Neither of these statements comes anywhere close to deserving the scorn you're displaying. He did not say that he gets gunsmiths to do the work for him.
#27

Hey, its friday, and time for my weekly “Knock it off” post, brought to you today by Zirner.

#28

About the only way to color raw aluminum is anodizing. We used to send all of our aluminum castings out for clear, brown, bronze, black, -whatever the customer wanted- for anodizing.
If you don’t, the aluminum will oxidize and turn chalky over time.
I think Gary Raymond black wheels are dyed by the “gunsmith method.” It looks that way to me, anyway. We have several gunsmiths in our area, and I think I’ll take a sample wheel over and get it blackened. Maybe I can buy the dye and do it myself.
jb

#29

Hi Folks.

Sorry, I seam to have the wrong attitude for these kind of diskussions. Maybe I am just too impatient.

Most people I talk too or work with give a clear answer to a question and suggest things they have tried and know it works. Just plain experience. If fellows like Chris Walas, McCalla or David Fletcher give me an advise, I can be sure, they tried it themselves and know, what they are talking about. I admire and study their modelling, as well as many others. I try to learn from the best.

Crossovers are no problem neither. I have no difficulties asking my dentist about metal castings or resins. Or to buy my weathering material at the next shop fpr artists supply instead at the local toy shop. Or ask the old man, restoring old musical instruments, for his traditional tints and varnishes.

Sorry folks for disturbing your way to answer the question of Metal Blackeners. . Or for trying to learn something new over here. I wll not do it again. I´ll ask elsewhere.

Have Fun

Juergen Zirner

#30

Honestly

It seems to be you vendetta against a certain member who is attempting to answer you questions that is really turning people off…I really don’t see any PROOF of your modeling…or anyone badgering you to pony up with PROOF that you aare actually modeling anything…and DOES IT REALLY MATTER who is modeling what??? THIS IS A HOBBY…to what extent someone participates i up to them, I’ve seen the work that HJ does…wheres yours?

Good lord…he answered your question, then you DEMANDED proof…its not that anyone minds your questions, but you seemto have a really bad attitude about it…notice two other posters have noticed this as well? Well done Ray BTW…

#31

Hey , Bart , I think that was uncalled for .
The bloke has just apologised .
Try writing an article in German for his magazine , and you will see the problem of expressing yourself in a foreign language .

#32

First of all…I was writng my reply before he posted his and yeah it took me that long to write it…and I think most folks will agree…this is not about English vs German…incidentallyas a Sci Fi modeler I cross posts with English, German, Dutch, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Canadians, Klingons, Mexicans, and even people from Kentucky…This is about Zirner having a problem with HJ…I noticed he didn’t question Keven Strong’s reply? Or anyone else’s? And its not just in this thread…What’s the axe to grind? This is an honest observation on my part, not meant to be critical or anything, just mildly curious…

#33

Bart Salmons said:
First of all…I was writng my reply before he posted his and yeah it took me that long to write it…and I think most folks will agree…this is not about English vs German…incidentallyas a Sci Fi modeler I cross posts with English, German, Dutch, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Canadians, Klingons, Mexicans, and even people from Kentucky…This is about Zirner having a problem with HJ…I noticed he didn’t question Keven Strong’s reply? Or anyone else’s? And its not just in this thread…What’s the axe to grind? This is an honest observation on my part, not meant to be critical or anything, just mildly curious…

Bart, My impression is that Zirner has a problem with a) my “virtual” modeling, which in clear text means he doesn’t have access to the pictures I very selectively post in a certain forum. b) my lively participation in various fora. He seems to mind that I have just as many resources on hand to find information other people are looking for. Of course I don’t have to provide a picture with every bit of info. Most of us have enough modeling experience to figure out the rest. c) my submissions to the GARTENBAHNprofi, since that magazine is in direkt competition with the mag he writes (used to write?) for. d) my translations. This concerns both the articles from the GARTENBAHNprofi, as well as any translations i.e. the LGB Insolvency Saga. e) my Eastern Mountain Models Ltd. business; at one time he “opined” that our trees have no bark texture. Which turned out to be a matter of how close one gets with the camera in order to catch a LS tree. But judge for yourself

Ponderosa

Spruce

Larch/Tamarack f) my tendency to call a spade a spade - from what I observed he considers that to be his exclusive territory - especially when it comes to commenting on the “relative merits” of “G” as a “scale”. g) my still being involved in scales from Z to LS, since one of his war cries is “Never again HO!”. Fine! I like to try out different “stuff” in different scales, not least because our business stretches from Z to LS. there’s more but the above should do, it all boils down to a rather large chip on the shoulder. With the exception in this thread, I just ignore him now, seems to work. :wink:

#34

TIME, GENTLEMEN–PLEASE!!!

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Kevin,

Did you rinse it after one minute?


On the rail, I didn’t rinse it, nor can I remember if I wiped the excess off with a paper towel as I’m prone to do with detail parts and things of that nature. That could be the difference, or it could also be relative to different alloys of the aluminum. The white oxide took a while to develop though–a period of days, by which time one would think the chemicals would have evaporated and/or been washed off by the sprinklers that watered the railroad.

As I’m no longer using aluminum rail, I’ve had little cause to do any further investigation. Now, if someone could come up with a chemical blackener that works on the AMS rail–which seems to be second only to Aristocraft in terms of natural tarnish resistance. I’ll give it another year before I break down and just paint the blasted stuff!

Later,

K

#35

Hello,

Mr. Muellers list of reasons regarding my person is just a list of rubbish. I remember, in less than three hours after my first appearance in this forum a few weeks ago, Mr Mueller started throwing dirt on me. Some might remember his Troll /PITA campaign. Maybe I asked the wrong question.

Only a short time later, I was asked in a rather offending manner by somebody, to please show some of my modelling. Which I did of course.

I do not have to question Kevin´s experience with aluminium. We had similiar disappointing results. Most of us try various techniques on things. Some work, some don´t. There is nothing wrong with it. We did not investigate any further on the the aluminium problem, since we seldom use it in LS modelling.

We use mainly mild steel, various grades of brass, whitemetall in different alloys, sometimes zink and for track very often nickel silver. All of these metals contain a certain percentage of lead, so we know what to use to stain it. Or what to ask for.

Have Fun

Juergen Zirner

#36

Hmmmm …I have reviewed the logs…and it appears to me…that your very first post here at LSC (2006-09-05 14:31:57 MST)

http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=6472&p=2

was an open harsh criticism of HJ…In fact…everytime I see a post BY HJ I seem to see a critical remark by you…I also rememebr a thread where you and HJ both were told to Play nice…HJ seems to be doing so, why do you insist on being hypercritiical? ITs not THis thread…ITs not a question that you asked…Its not an English vs German thing…and I’m obviously not the only one to notice it…if you don’t like him, and its obvious you don’t…leave him alone…its that simple…

#37

DING!

And thats the end of the thread. Thanks for playing.

#38

Kevin ,
Aluminium is a very good conductor , thus its use in electrical systems . Its tendency not to rot easily in air ,especially when alloyed , is why it is used on aircraft , though its light weight is the primary factor for airborne use .
Its propensity to dissolve in salt is legendary . Did you know that if a helicopter lands on a beach and subsequently gets sea water splashed over it , then a total write off is the only course to take ? This is what happens to non prpared helicopters , obviously the Sea king and the like are specially prepared . If an aircraft lands on a beach , there is usually more than just corrosion .
An interesting point about alu is that once the white corrosion appears , it seems to protect it . I have picked up many bits of WW2 aircraft off the beaches round the UK which , when the white stuff is removed , can reveal part numbers . That’s how shallow the corrosion is .
So , lots of folk are interested in a cheap and cheerful way of colouring Alu , many have tried , and many failed .
Etch primers are the cheapest way of protection , but they are not , to my knowledge , available in black/brown/rust . I have good connections with a paint factory local to me here , they supply paints and finishes to the Military and to the aircraft industry . they have been unable to help , except to recommend anodising . This is not a simple process , it carries some danger from the chemicals . It would not be cost effective for DIY .
You may find the odd back street shop prepared to help , but beware that anodising often involves heat . This would do your wheel insulators no good at all , should you wish to blacken them . The problem of anodising track lengths , assuming they are not embedded in plastic is the handling , oddly enough . Making it a bit labour intensive . It also gives an overall blacking , including the rail tops .
I use paint , from an airbrush .
You can get any colour you want , though I usually use rust colour. Suits me and a lot of other modellers I know .

#39

Sorry , Bob , I was writing when you put that up .
I shall not be offended if you erase it .
Mike

#40

Take a break, and lets all make tomorrow a day where we ALL can stop for a moment, and remember those that have given so much, that we have the freedoms to disgree so easily. And yes; sometimes stop and consider what harm a few misplaced words can do to a person we might not understand.

Saturday November 11th, is Rememberance Day......take a moment...it won't hurt you.....and be thankfull for what so many have given.....