Large Scale Central

Manual (not remote) Battery Operations

General Discussion
#1

From earlier post, I was trying to find out how to control my train battery operations manually without the use of a remote. I use the Aristo Train Engineer Revolution system and I was worried what I would do if I had either lost or broke my remote, which is something I have come very close to doing on too many occasions. At first I tried to use the Aristo Non-PNP as a Motor Speed Control (MSC). That has failed so far. Then I found my solution by purchasing a MSC from an outfit in China via eBay.

URL follows:

http://cgi.ebay.com/12-40V-7A-80W-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-PWM-Controller_W0QQitemZ160375667812QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2557227c64

I tired out this unit which is rated at 12-40 volts, 7 amps and 80 watts. My Li Ion batteries are 21.5 volts, 2 amps so I calculate a max wattage of 43. All of this within the capabilities of this board. Board costs about $16, $18 buy now, and $8 shipping no matter how many, or few, you buy. It has a BIG potentiometer on it so you can dial in your power output. Must make sure you get the ground from the battery in the correct input pair. For Aristo’s electrical connectors this is the red wire, to my surprise.

I strongly recommed you get a couple of these puppies in case your remote control goes south. If Aristo is out-of-stock it could take a half of a year to replace your remote. No one would want to be shut down from delivering the freight and passengers for that long!

#2

Beeing tied on a system is one of the most important factors that i did my RC by scratchbuilding it from standard RC Systems for cars, flyers or boats.
There are MANY parts achievable, and in bad cases u just can fit the loco to another RC system in half an hour or less. Just plug it off, change, plug in and play.

Very often i think about the sense of doing this, but if u want to stay flexible, selfmade systems (not selfmade parts…just the combination is “mine”) have big advantages.

One of the biggest advantage is that u KNOW your system.

I know which cord makes shortcuts or which one is able to be used as a direct drive (e.g. with no remote controll).

To stay as flexible as possible, its useful to take out the whole electrics and replace them with the own one. Like this, u have the general survey.

The manual controlers are a nice hint so, because its good for a fast troubleshooting, even with my RC.

Frank

#3

Looks like a beefier version of the ones I use - http://www.bakatronics.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=383 I call it simple battery power.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n214/altterrain/7-8n2%20projects/underthehood.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n214/altterrain/7-8n2%20projects/rail-tractor/railtractor-electronics.jpg)

-Brian

#4

How long does it take you to build one of these? I have seen the kits on sale before but my soldering skills are terrible. Can save money with a kit though.

Are you using one of these units to control a sound unit? I have an LGB European box car with sound (my only European car). There are no chuff magnets involved as it is strictly power controlled. Problem is, it just chuffs too fast. So I put my speed control unit on it with a 9 volt battery for power supply. I can now make it chuff at just the rate I want. It works well with my Shays as they have 3 pistons so the chuff rate should be 50% greater than a conventional 2 cylindar steam unit. Also works for mallets with 100% increased chuff rate.

Tried to use one of the Li Ion 21.5V/2amp batteries for it, but the pot did not give me enough resolution for slow chuff control. I will probably have to change the 9v battery too frequently. Perhaps will need a bigger rechargable, just not as big as the Li Ion ones I have now.

#5

There is a simpler way to use battery ops without the remote, it is to get control speed by just adding more cars to your train till the weight it great enough. You then direct connect battery to the engine without any other electronics in-between. This can work for my diesel trains. I can make them very long. But my steam trains, especially 19th century narrow guage mountain trains, just were not very long. Also my old Bachman Ten-wheelers just won’t handle the strain of too many cars. So I needed a better solution for them.

#6

Designed for battery powered Large Scale engines, simple, small, easy to install (usually no soldering), US made and good support by a long term member of this forum.

G Scale Graphics “Simple Critter Control” $29 + $7 S&H (USPS Priority Mail)
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/DelTapparo/Simple_Critter.htm

#7

Thanks for the info on the Simple Critter Control. It’s small size makes it most appealing. Unfortunately the specs say it will handle 20 volts max and my Li Ion batteries are 21.5. Could I burn something out?

#8

I would check with G Sale to see if the Critter will work up to 21.5 VDC. I have one home brew and one Critter installed in a battery / track cleaning car set which may be used to power any loc with an Aristo compatible plug. Although probably not recommended, in addition to a poly-fuse, I put a power diode bridge in the battery leads to drop the voltage.

#9

The Simple Critter Control is definitely 20V maximum. Yes you could use diodes to drop the voltage down below 20V. You could also take a step up to the Basic Critter Control, 30V max, semi-automatic control.

#10
Edward Quinn said:
How long does it take you to build one of these? I have seen the kits on sale before but my soldering skills are terrible. Can save money with a kit though.

Are you using one of these units to control a sound unit? I have an LGB European box car with sound (my only European car). There are no chuff magnets involved as it is strictly power controlled. Problem is, it just chuffs too fast. So I put my speed control unit on it with a 9 volt battery for power supply. I can now make it chuff at just the rate I want. It works well with my Shays as they have 3 pistons so the chuff rate should be 50% greater than a conventional 2 cylindar steam unit. Also works for mallets with 100% increased chuff rate.


I spend the extra $4 and buy the premade kits. My soldering isn’t all that great either but is getting better.
That’s a simple sound unit (just a repeating loop) from ITT (the helper diesel) - http://ittproducts.com/hqpage_2008.htm

-Brian

#11

Edward,
Everything you write about is OK with me.
But wouldn’t you want a remote for emergencies, derailments, etc.?
I don’t think I would want my loco grinding away in the ballast until I could get to it to shut it off.
Or starting up and realizing a mainline switch is thrown for a siding.
Or a lift out bridge was forgotten to be put in.
This kind of stuff happens all the time. Believe me, I know from experience. :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

#12
John Bouck said:
Edward, Everything you write about is OK with me. But wouldn't you want a remote for emergencies, derailments, etc.? I don't think I would want my loco grinding away in the ballast until I could get to it to shut it off. Or starting up and realizing a mainline switch is thrown for a siding. Or a lift out bridge was forgotten to be put in. This kind of stuff happens all the time. Believe me, I know from experience. :) :)
John - I agree with your experiences, but it has also been my experience that whenever disaster strikes, I am either 1) preoccupied with a guest or something else, or 2) I can't find the remote anyway.

Having now operated my Critter Controls (no remotes) for quite a few years now, I find that for me, the fear of emergency is really no different than R/C. Of course R/C makes operations easier. But if you like automation and/or just running, manual controls work fine and cost less.

#13

Brian,

Has ITT fixed the stop/start problem as the sound loops? Originally it was pretty seamless for things like crossing bells, machines running, etc. … then they got a new supplier where there was like a 2 second break every 30-60 seconds… I’d be glad to hear it was back to looping wthout interruption again.

Matthew (OV)

#14
John Bouck said:
Edward, Everything you write about is OK with me. But wouldn't you want a remote for emergencies, derailments, etc.? I don't think I would want my loco grinding away in the ballast until I could get to it to shut it off. Or starting up and realizing a mainline switch is thrown for a siding. Or a lift out bridge was forgotten to be put in. This kind of stuff happens all the time. Believe me, I know from experience. :) :)
Yes, I prefer remote operations. I am just paranoid about losing or breaking my RC remote. I actually put the thing in a zip-lock bag to prevent moisture from getting at it, and I ended up twice spilling drinks on it and once left it out in the rain. Another time I left in out in the sun and the heat warpped the front plate pretty badly (perhaps made worse by the bag). I nearly sat on it more times than I can count.

I had to wait over 7 months to get batteries from AristoCraft. The were sold out nationally for their Li Ion batteries for that long. What if my remote went south? Would I have to wait 7 months before I could run my trains. I converted almost 100 engines to battery operations. Only those Aristo engines with the switch to select track or battery power could easily be used once again with my old transformers. My track has not been cleaned for over a year (and never will be again). I really do NOT want to ever return to track power again. Even if I had an indoor layout, it would be battery operations! I have engines that I assumed were just poor performers, then I set them to battery ops and they worked great! Can’t stop singing the praises of this new Aristo Revolution system but I also can’t stand the thought of being shut down, TOTALLY, without it.

So the Manual Motor Speed Control system will not be used very much, and possibly not at all, but it gives me great peace of mind knowing they are ready to fill in if something goes wrong with the RC. And the manual system is VERY much less expensive than RC for those on tight railroad budgets.

It would be a bit awkward to try and stop your train with the manual system, but my RC unit automatically shuts itself off, leaving the trains running in the last speed setting. It takes almost as much time to turn it back on and then go thru the list of programmed trains to find the one you want to stop for the oncoming emergency. This is not much of a problem if you have only one train programmed. I have 15 units programmed, non of them engines, they are all battery cars, most with sound units in them. I have two loops of track, I could have If the RC unit is laying on the other side of your yard from where you are sitting, when you discover the impending disaster, then you might as well just run over and grab the engine off the track. It will still be spinning it’s wheels, but you will stop the problem. Eventhough you are supposed to, “pinch” the connectors to release them, I have found that you can actually yank them appart rather violently, which stops the engine, and the connectors survive without permanent damage, usually.

#15

I just use an on/off switch and mess with different battery packs to find a voltage that does what I want.

#16

Whilst you have been able to pull them apart, I can guarantee that if ever the battery car derails and the loco keeps moving, you will rip the wires out of the connectors.

Cut the hooks off the battery - loco connectors. Don’t worry. they do not come apart on their own durimng normal operations.

Solve the fear of a non functioning TX handpiece. Buy a Spare TX. Mr Polk says they are not expensive.

#17

Or used Tony’s Beltrol/EVO systems…most hobby shops carry parts for standard 2 stick RC stuffs!

#18

Put your remote in a lanyard and hang it around your neck.
I know the feeling of a lost remote.
I told Polk years ago to make a “Locator” beeper on his remote. You could use a properly coded remote car opener. (Then you’d lose that thing as well…:slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: )

#19

Thanks Bart.
Whilst you can still buy the low cost 2 stick AM radios and use them with the EVO brand, The cost of 5/6 channel 2.4 GHz radios is now so low (US$ 50 delivered for a 6 ch TX & RX) the old AM stuff is rapidly disappearing.

BTW. It is a lot harder to lose a stick type radio than the wimpy little TX’s that masquerade as viable control systems. :wink:

#20
Jerry Barnes said:
I just use an on/off switch and mess with different battery packs to find a voltage that does what I want.
I guess there are a lot of different manufacturers out there of batteries for this purpose. I am only familiar with Aristo's line. I did see a St Album web sale and they had a bunch of different types.