Large Scale Central

Making logs removable

Operations
#1

I have a bunch of log skeleton cars that I made from Don Winter kits awhile back. Up until now, the skeletons have either been loaded or empty.

However, when I operate, I want them to either be loaded or empty - and I didn’t want to swap out loaded cars for empties; or vice versa. What I needed was a way to securely hold the logs in place. Of course I already had chains to do this, but I needed a connection that would be not only strong, but also easy to connect and unconnect. And, if the chain falls off the empty, there IS a danger of it catching on a switch or something else that will derail the car. Ask me how I know. :wink: Back when I was working on operating gladhands (http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=8589), I ordered lots of different magnet types from http://www.kjmagnetics.com/. One of the types that didn’t work for gladhands looked like it could work for connecting the chains. I had some 1/8" diameter x 1/4" long cylinder magnets. What makes these interesting is that they are diametrically magnetized. They stick to the sides of the cylinders rather than the ends.

Another interesting thing I discovered is that my “brass” chain was magnetic! Perfect. I first tried some epoxy to hold the magnets to the end of the chain, but this wasn’t very secure. So, I tried some 1/8" ID aluminum tube cut into short sections and glued the magnet inside that.

When I punched the cylinder for drilling, it squished the ends which further helps to hold the magnet in place.

I drilled a small hole and routed some “S” hooks through them.

So, two chains, with a magnet on the end of each. I put the logs in place and pull the chains tight and place the magnet against the chain.

When it’s empty, I can just coil up the chain on top and it sticks to the magnets.

It works great. When it’s loaded, I can pick up the car by just the logs and there is no slipping at all.

ARTICLE: A Master Index for the J&B RR
#2

Great idea!

But for food for thought and trust me I think there was a whole lot of independent thinkers about how to load or haul logs.

What I read in one of the books is that the “top log” sits on top of the chain to prevent the tension on the chain from being loose.

This isn’t an original thought ( like I have one?), but some knowledge I gleened from somewhere.

#3

Kool idea :smiley:

Now, hows that R/C log skidder coming ?

#4

And here is another thought on this subject: A few log cars loaded with real wood logs can quickly get very heavy. Tough work for any loco. How long are your loaded logcar trains? Does anyone out there have any ideas for how to have a train of, say, a dozen realistic (not Bachmann hollow logs) loaded log cars hauled by a single loco?

#5

As the real pikes do…as the train gets heavier, use a larger locomotive…or doublehead…
Real wood gets lighter as it dries out.
Try drying real wood, then after it is well dried, seal it with a clear wood sealer to prevent the bark from falling off…do all your work on the “logs” when the wood is wet, to make them appear the way you want them to…

#6

Fred - I guess you mean do my modelling on the still wet logs, - cutting to length, trimming off branches, splitting and checking on the ends or whatever then letting them dry out… yes, of course! Believe it or not I hadn’t concerned myself with using only dry logs! How stupid, how simple! Tks…

As for motive power, my aim here is to haul, say, half a dozen loads with small power, as was the practice on many small operations. That has proved hard to do with full (not necessarily dry) loads, even tougher if you throw in even a slight grade. Using DRIED sticks is a good first step & I’ll certainly try it when the weather warms up again.

I’m still open to further suggestions for lightweight logs… anybody?

#7

John Le Forestier said:
Fred - I guess you mean do my modelling on the still wet logs, - cutting to length, trimming off branches, splitting and checking on the ends or whatever then letting them dry out… yes, of course! Believe it or not I hadn’t concerned myself with using only dry logs! How stupid, how simple! Tks… As for motive power, my aim here is to haul, say, half a dozen loads with small power, as was the practice on many small operations. That has proved hard to do with full (not necessarily dry) loads, even tougher if you throw in even a slight grade. Using DRIED sticks is a good first step & I’ll certainly try it when the weather warms up again. I’m still open to further suggestions for lightweight logs… anybody?

Hi John I ran some photos of my first flat with fresh cut green oak on the Garden Railways Magazine website.

(http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg412/DrGrab/DSC04667.jpg)

I wondered how much the Shay could could safely haul and got this interesting response: “Well, I have yet to find a reasonable limit as to what one of the Bachmann Shays can’t pull. Last year I was running my three-truck Shay at a show with ten loaded rock cars and a caboose behind it, and after a while one of the guys added another ten or eleven of real-wood logging cars behind that…the Shay ran for another two hours like nothing was behind it at all!” “The St. Francis Consolidated Railroads of the Colorado Rockies” So maybe it can be done safely without wrecking the locomotive. The weight of the flat and the oak in the picture above was about 7 or 8 pounds. Thanks for this interesting discussion on realistic operations for logging rail roads. Doc Tom

#8

My Bachmann 2-truck shay pulls 6 AMS disconnects loaded with natural birch logs without issue, it does not even appear to slow it down!

As a side note in line with the original post…I called AMS when I first got my disconnects and asked them what to do with the short chain that came with the cars (was hardley enought to cover the width of the log bunk!). The gentleman told me he had no idea why they included the chain as it served no purpose and that often loggers let gravity alone hold the logs in the bunk. After revieweing many old logging train photos I’d say he’s right…Might also explain why so many loggers got squished. I rum my AMS disconnects with no chains and have yet to lose a log or have the car track poorly. Gravity is indeed enough to hold the natural “logs” in place.

I love my AMS disconnects but those kits of yours look mighty sweet!

#9
Mark V said:
My Bachmann 2-truck shay pulls 6 AMS disconnects loaded with natural birch logs without issue, it does not even appear to slow it down!

As a side note in line with the original post…I called AMS when I first got my disconnects and asked them what to do with the short chain that came with the cars (was hardley enought to cover the width of the log bunk!). The gentleman told me he had no idea why they included the chain as it served no purpose and that often loggers let gravity alone hold the logs in the bunk. After revieweing many old logging train photos I’d say he’s right…Might also explain why so many loggers got squished. I rum my AMS disconnects with no chains and have yet to lose a log or have the car track poorly. Gravity is indeed enough to hold the natural “logs” in place.

I love my AMS disconnects but those kits of yours look mighty sweet!


Hi Mark V,

I believe those short chains were not intended to be used to secure the load. Log Bunks, like those on the disconnects used chains only to set the chocks against the logs. You are right that the weight of the logs did a pretty good job holding everything in place.

Tom

#10

Hey Fred, cypress limbs are good log makers. I just finished my first 50’ Illinois Central pulpwood car using cypress limbs as pulpwood. The car ended up no heavier than the USA boxcars. I cut up a number of limbs 13" long and saved them for future log use. They dry light as you have previously stated.
Ron

#11

Right! For me then, it’ll be dried cedar limbs, which grow around here aplenty, and are, I believe, basically the same as cypress. They do dry very light.

I started on this road of folly by using hardwood trimmings, and not dry ones either. Could hardly have gone more wrong!

Now I’ve begun to wonder what Balsa and Cork tree trimmings woul be like. Finding out might require trips to Peru and Portugal… That sounds like fun.

Anyway, I’m avoiding geared lokeys with this operation, 'though I realize they’re the business when it comes to hauling timber over all obstacles.

No, I’m talking about a little ole primitive logging op. from the pre-Shay days, when they used teakettles cast-off from elevated lines, tiny four-coupled locos.

These were, according to my research anyway, by far the most common thing during the stone age of logging pikes. There are photos of these little beasts struggling under heavy burdens and I’d like to recreate that atmosphere.

The main difficulties are, of course, that our model cars are proportionately much heavier and our grades generally steeper and our curves tighter and our bearings much less effective proportionally, so I figure I have to cheat by using really lightweight logs.

Why am I so stubborn about this? Well, I like the appearance of geared locos as much as the next guy, but for me now it’s pretty much a case of, “Been there, done that, I think now I’ve pretty much seen all the geared locos I want to see.”

I sold my geared locos to the next guy, now what’s next for me is those really little primitive startup woodcutter RR’s and their gear as illustrated in, say, “Logging RR’s of the West.” If you have this book, look for the smallest locos in it and you’ll get my drift…

#12

I solved the weight issue on my larger Redwood logs by Drilling out the under side with a 1" Forstner bit. The Redwood is fairly light when dry but drilling helps even more.

#13
Dan DeVoto said:
I solved the weight issue on my larger Redwood logs by Drilling out the under side with a 1" Forstner bit. The Redwood is fairly light when dry but drilling helps even more.
You bet I thought about this solution Dan, but all I could imagine was the drill slipping or coming through the side of the log and gouging my hands. In any case, not getting the drill to travel thru the length of the log. Is that what yoiu did? Drill end to end? I guess there must be a safe way to do this, but I wouldn't know...

Then I thought I’d seal & remodel the ends with a little water putty or something.

#14

Yes there is a safe way, it is called a drill press and clamps