Large Scale Central

Lubing a USA FA-1

Problem Solving
#1

I recently received a FA-1 from an ebay auction. It seems to run okay but has a good bit of pulsing and wobbling almost like something’s out of balance. It did not come with an info so I’m not sure how to crack it open and lube the engine.

I lubed the axle points outside the block but there must be other places to lube. There are 4 small Phillips screws on the bottom of the block that I guess may get me to a gear box but my jeweler’s screw drivers won’t turn the screws. I’ve got it running about 1/3 throttle on rollers now and it’s smoothing out a bit. It’s much worse in reverse than in forward.

I would welcome advise on how to lube and troubleshoot this issue.

Thanks,

Scott

#2

I can’t answer the lube question, but the operational symptom sounds like one or more cracked axle gears. This is very common on USA engines and there are a number of fixes available ranging from wrapping the gear with fishing line held in place with CA to pushing a piece of tubing over the crack.

#3

Hmm. Good info. I have read about “cracked axle gears” in earlier models but had no idea what to look for. Once I can figure our how to get those screws to turn and get inside then I’ll look for that. The wobbling seems more pronounced in the rear of the engine so I will try and crack that one open first.

Thanks.

#4

Just to be sure:

USA Trains makes an F3

Aristo made an FA-1

If it’s a USAT loco (which I’m guessing), you can remove the bottom SIX screws, but they are definitely larger than a jewelers screwdriver!

#5

Your jeweler screwdrivers are probably too small. Try a good #1 or #2 Phillips driver with some length and a good handle grip. I’m not familiar with the FA trucks, but the USA trucks I have seen, once that cover is loose it lifts straight off. Be mindful of the sliders and their springs.

#6

Oh for CRYIN’ OUT LOUD!!! Greg, you are absolutely right. I typo’d on the original post and missed my mistake. I’m trying to multi task this morning and not doing a good job of it. Of course it’s an ARISTO FA-1 [my bad]

Sorry for all the confusion. Still, I wish I could figure out how to get the screws loose on the block. I will go find the longer Phillips screwdrivers in my garage tool box and give them a try later.

Scott

#7

I knew it was an Aristo FA from your picture on the 1st post

From Georges site

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/brick_fix.html

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips2/fa_tips.html#assembly

#8

OK - Then cancel my cracked gear comment. Of course it might still be the issue, just not as common on Aristo.

#9

Thanks Dave, I’ll read George’s site later. Should’ve checked GIRR first. I’m racing around here trying to get some things done before an afternoon appointment. Thanks John. Had this actually been a USA loco I bet your advice would’ve been spot on as I heard that used to be a problem with older USA locos.

Again, thanks and sorry for the confusion.

S

#10

sorry, the picture was so small, somehow I missed it… my bad.

So, the motor blocks on the Aristo are different. Note that often there are MORE screws on the “top side”.

Here’s a link to my site with some hopefully helpful information:

http://www.elmassian.com/trains/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips/aristo-motive-power/original-style-diesel-trucks

Greg

#11

Before taking it all apart...Check to make sure each wheel is picking up power using probes (alligator clips from your track). Broken wires, especially on the truck frames are quite common.  If all wheels are picking up okay, I would venture inside to see if the "U-joint" is holding up well on each truck.  If no other mechanical issues are evident, I would consider three other likely issues.  You may have a bad motor, a misformed plastic gear on an axle (slight possibility). Or the wheels or bushings are no longer conducting power effectively.   Easiest thing to test is the latter.  Hook up the engine directly to power and observe.

 

 

 If you don't already have a battery RC engine, this could be a good unit to try it out on.  

#12

I missed that photo on first read, too.

You said that it is starting to smooth out as it runs up on blocks. It could be that some well-meaning wrench turner over-lubed the loco sometime in the remote past, then put it out to pasture, forgotten. That grease then adsorbed moisture and whatever stray grit happened by, turning said grease crusty. As the wheels turn, the grease warms a bit, becoming more “lube-like,” allowing things to smooth out.

See what happens as you “run it in.”

You might only have to do a thorough cleaning and LIGHT lube with a plastic compatible grease. Mobile 1 synthetic oil and grease give you the best bang for the buck.

Of course, until you can get the drives open, all bets are off, it could be anything, and our friends above have good ideas, too.

#13

The Western Mareyland is definately the Aristocraft FA unit and these were made in 2 versions.

Original had axles with power pickup in the side frames and wires would break in the frames. Also these had a separate heater and fan was located on the rear vent and a switch at the rear of the loco could reverse the fan, why noi one seems to know.

Newer version had the smoke unit upgraded and the trucks were upgraded also, power no longer picked up at the side frames. B units only had the truck upgrade, still the original fan/smoke units.

So, there 2 different sets of diagrams for the FA diesels, I do have both sets, parts diagrams and manuals.

#14

The picture shows the engine as the older version…possibly REA Korea. I see silver wheels, brass springs, gold window trim…a true classic! They’re good engines if you take care of them…my oldest is over 20 years old! I may finally upgrade the trucks on mine, as I’ve recently added two PGN units that run a bit faster than “old reliable.”

#15

I was busy all day yesterday and unable to inspect the engine and just now catching up on posted advice.

My suspicions are that this engine was more of a shelf queen that saw little operation and the ebay seller was one of those auction kind of people that sells all kinds of assorted stuff.

On inspection this morning it does appear to have wires running to the side frames and has the axle adjustment screws on each end of the blocks which I believe indicates the very early blocks. none of the wires are obviously damaged. The switches on the back door are “Smoke” with “F OFF R”, Lights “on & off”, and Motor “on & off”.

I think Steve may be on the right track as it is a rhythmic pulse/wobble and may have been caused by sitting for years. There may also be something warped. I think the first thing will be to follow George Schreyer’s step by step to tear the rear motorblock apart and clean old lube and apply fresh. The wob seems to be more pronounced in the rear running on the rollers.

Another question in case I decide to go that route. How tough is it to install newer motorblocks? From George’s website it looks like there’s a different wiring connector but other than that it doesn’t look like much modification is needed. Are new motorblocks still available anywhere?

#16

On the old Aristo motor blocks ou cannot look at the wires as there is heat shring over the soldered connection.

I have found many bad connections and had to remove the shrink and resolder the connection.

Use pliers and give a gentle tug on the wire. I had one engine that only had 1 connection on each side. Stalled at every switch and ran like the residue from the south end of a north bound horse.

#17

Power pickup does not seem to be an issue on this model. Upside down in my foam “cradle” I can touch wires from my power supply to each axle set and both engines run quite nicely. Even contacting alternate diagonal wheels the engine still has flawless electrical pickup.

I lubed the gearboxes and inspected the white plastic u joint in the ‘rear motorblock’ yesterday and re assembled it and applied power and the motorblocks still have the slight pulsing at low current. Kind of like “wa-wa-wa-wa” it smooths out as I apply more current. Today I will try and find time to crack open the front motorblock and inspect and lube it also. Not sure if one of the electric motors has something out of balance.

What Aristo motorblocks will fit the FA-1? Are RS-3 and other blocks interchangeable? The early motorblocks are held to the frame via the protruding axle hubs. Newer blocks just have the wheels held on with screws. How are the newer blocks affixed to the loco?

Thanks again,

S

#18

Tore down, cleaned and lubed both motor blocks. Power pickup is great. Backed off about a half a turn on the axle lash adjustment screws and it seemed to free things up a bit.

Re-assembled everything and put it back on the rollers and ran it for about an hour. The engine has ‘freed’ up a bit but at very slow speed it still has the rhythmic wa-wa-wa, pulsing.

That may be as good as these old motor blocks will run. Next I’ll put it on the track with a half a dozen freight cars and see how if runs under a little load. Maybe I’ll get lucky and it will run smooth enough with a consist to pull.

Has anyone swapped old motorblocks for newer ones on an Aristo FA-1 before? Curious if that may be the way to proceed.

Thanks.

#19

Hi Scott,

You may find the engine will settle down after awhile with a load, as you suggest. Maybe even try running it with a USAT GP for a while to take advantage of the speed difference between them.

To replace the motor blocks with the newer type you will also need to replace the mounting frame known as the A-frame in Aristo lingo. If you look around a bit, you may find motor blocks with the A-frame and side frames as a complete unit. OVGRS apparently has a bunch of these in house. http://ovgrs.org/items-for-sale/

You can also buy the motor block separately when you can find them, and Roll-Ez wheels (Al Kramer) has the a-frame and sideframes on hand.

#20

I have worked with many of these motor blocks through out the years. I find that if the motors test fine, backlash is set properly and gears are not cracked which is more common than most think it is with aristocraft, it always is the wheels. The older blocks with early wheel sets have poorly machined wheels that wobble like mickey mouses cartoon train.

Sometimes this can be fixed by re pressing the axles in to the gears with a proper jig to keep things straight and true. Sometimes the wheel spacing is to wide and then even the slightest wobble causes the train to bind up on rollers and track every revolution giving you these symtoms. Just press them in until you get proper wheel spacing. Last, every now and then you just have to replace a wheel set because they are to goofed up and beyond service.

Like George states on his site. These blocks can run as smooth as glass when right. Just takes the proper no how. Hold loco upside down and watch for wheel shimmy while running. Measure wheel spacing to check for proper gauge. Take a screw driver and approach the backside of the wheel slowly. If you hear a scrape… scrape… scrape… things are wobbling. If you hear a steady Sssssssssracpe. Your fine.

Good luck. You will get her running right in no time!

Also , the wheel that is not running true can even cause the symtom you describe without even being on the track. The wheel will rub the side frame or cause the smaller axle end for power pickup to wobble with the wheel inside the truck bushing causing the same wa wa wa wa sound. You will see the truck flexing in and out in this case or up and down.