I have been researching for months and am now more confused then ever! I want to put a G scale layout in my backyard, around 60’ by 20’. Would like do do an old west style layout, (we live 50 miles west of Fort Worth Texas), would like to go battery power, but, I can’t figure out this narrow gauge or standard gauge thing to start with, let alone what radius exetra track I need to order. Does anyone sell a layout program a newbie can use to design and figure out how much track I need?
First of all, welcome to LSC, Mark. You will find this a friendly place, even though the discussions can get lively at times.
Two programs that have gained favor are 3rd PlanIt at www.trackplanning.com and RR Track at http://www.rrtrack.com/
Both are well done and have fairly short learning curves.
Standard Gauge in the USA means track that is 4 feet 8 and 1/2 inches from railhead to railhead. This reportedly comes from the common gauge of the Roman wagon wheels. This is what today’s railroads use, like BNSF, Norfolk Southern, Union Pacific and so on. It is commonly modeled in Large Scale in 1:29, and to a lesser extend, 1:32. The 1:32 folks say that they are the true scale for the Large Scale track which is 45 mm from railhead to railhead. The 1:29 folks say that 1:32 is too small to run outside and should be limited to indoor railroads. The debate sometimes gets amusing. Personally, I model 1:29, simply because that is where I started.
Narrow gauge is anything that is narrower than that. Common narrow gauges in the United States are 36 inches, 30 inches and 24 inches. Other common narrow gauges are 42 inches, especially in Australia and New Zealand, and one meter in Europe. The Denver and Rio Grand Western in Colorado is a commonly modeled narrow gauge railroad. Their track is 36 inches from railhead to railhead. 1:20.3 is the scale used to model 36 inch gauge trains on 45 mm track. This creates model locomotives that in real life are quite small, but because of scale differences, are as big or even bigger than 1:32 or 1:29 Standard Gauge locomotives. The 1:20.3 has come to be called Fn3 to distinguish it from “G.”
“G” Gauge really means 1:22.5, or meter gauge modeled on 45 mm track. It is commonly, but incorrectly used to describe all Large Scale modeling. You will describe yourself as a “Newbie” if you use the term that way. It is correct, however, to say “Geezer Gauge,” when talking about Large Scale.
Now, have I thoroughly confused you? It only took me 2 years to get it all sorted out, so don’t worry about it. If you want to model the old west, you can’t go far wrong by doing the Fn3 or 1:20.3. There are a lot of models made for that. If I were to start an Fn3 layout, I would use the largest radius curve that I could. I think that with your dimensions, the smallest curve I would use would be a ten (10) foot diameter (5 ft radius) curve. This will allow you to be able to run just about anything that is currently made. Anything tighter will only make your trains look silly as they go around the curves. In narrow gauge, the 20 ft diameter (10 ft radius) curve models the tightest curve that was ever used on the real railroads in the woods. Our model railroads necessarily have to use tighter curves because of space limitations.
You just need some pointers on getting started.
The gauge and scale thing:
“G” is 45mm track. The scale depends on what you’re modeling. 45mm is 1/32 of the standard 4’ 8 1/2" gauge. It’s 1/20 of 3ft narrow gauge and 1/24 of meter gauge. The reason we settled on 1/29 for “standard” gauge has been lost to history, but I think it’s because a 10ft wide car in 1/29 was almost the same physical size as a 1/24th narrow gauge car. With all the confusion, realize that my Bachmann loco at 1:20 or 1:22 or whatever it is looks just fine with my 1:29th cars and when I take my standard gauge equipment to Ric’s narrow gauge layout, it all works together quite nicely.
Radius and Diameter:
For some reason, we talk about the Diameter of a curve instead of the Radius like other model railroaders. I think it’s just because we’re stubborn.
What diameter do you want? Well, it depends on how much space you have and what you can fit. Design for the biggest diameter you can fit. Try not to get less than 8ft diameter. Also, G gauge track is made to metric specs, but they tell us “5ft” when they mean 150cm. So don’t get too confused that a 5ft straight is only 59 inches long.
Designing your Layout:
There’s a program called rr track available. Some like it. I use a cheap CAD program called “Design Cad.” Of course a piece of graph paper and a pencil work as well as they did when I was a kid playing with N gauge when I should have been studying spelling words 
Manufacturers sell curved track by the full circle. That makes it pretty easy to figure out.
Start out by looking around at what others have done and see what you like and what fits your vision and space. Then take out a piece of paper and draw a rectangle 6 inches by 2 inches to represent your back yard. Sketch in features like the patio, sidewalk and tree. Scribble what you think you’d like for a layout. Don’t get too worried about inches here. Instead, when you get your track, take it outside and connect it all together, then build things around it. If you need to design around the rosebush, give yourself some extra slop inches 'cause things never come out quite like you figured anyhow. The extra space will let you put something there.
Then, take out your digital camera and shoot a couple pictures of your yard and a picture of your paper, post them here and say, “Here’s what I’m thinking of doing, what do you think?”
1:29 was chosen because Nat Polk, the founder of Aristo-Craft wanted it that way. The original Lionel Standard Gauge was 1:29, and it had a WOW factor that 1:32 lacked. Read all about it at http://www.aristocraft.com/articles/scale%20vs%20gauge/index.html
Also, 1:29 is 3 times the size of HO, making it easy to enlarge HO plans.
SteveF
Thank you for the responses. I have just ordered the RR-Track layout program. Seems like a good place to start so my wife can also plan her landscaping ideas. From my research looks like I need to go narrow gauge for the old time feel. I plan on a dogbone layout with a 15’ radius turn on one end and a 12’ radius turn on the other.
I took my wife to Clark Gardens here in Mineral Wells today and she was just blown away by the train layout. She took 192 pictures so she is fully on board for the project.
Mark S
Mark Selep said:Clearly a man of wisdom :D A good woman who can find, for her price is above Rubies. (You didn't know Solomon had live steam as well as 999 wives, did you?)
... she is fully on board for the project. Mark S
The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the
cheese in the trap.
Wisdom of Larry the Cable Guy
Mark Selep said:And my grandmother's cat always got the second mouse. Rodents were an endangered species in that old vicarage ... funny, nobody seemed to mind that ...
The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese in the trap. Wisdom of Larry the Cable Guy
Mark Selep said:
...........................I took my wife to Clark Gardens here in Mineral Wells today and she was just blown away by the train layout. She took 192 pictures so she is fully on board for the project.
Mark S
Hmmmmmm … that sounds like one very long “honey do” list coming up on your GRR.
Mark Selep said:
I have just ordered the RR-Track layout program. Seems like a good place to start so my wife can also plan her landscaping ideas. From my research looks like I need to go narrow gauge for the old time feel. I plan on a dogbone layout with a 15' radius turn on one end and a 12' radius turn on the other.I took my wife to Clark Gardens here in Mineral Wells today and she was just blown away by the train layout. She took 192 pictures so she is fully on board for the project.
Mark S - Like many, I was in HO all my life and through my son’s childhood. The wife never got involved. Got started in the garden railroad together and she is more active than I am as far as landscaping and buildings. I do the railroad.
As I said in the email - read, read , read and try to think about the overall picture. Mineral Wells had some local railroads that would be a great prototype following and give you direction.
Most manufacturers sell a complete circle of track prepackaged in a box EXCEPT for LGB.
the 4 foot diameter LGB track is a complete circle, the 8 foot (R3) is 3/4 of a circle.
Always ask. The 5 foot R2 may be a full circle, R3 definately is not.
My wife is a very avid gardener and is willing to give up her vegatable garden for this project so I feel very blessed! I purchased the rrtrack program today mostly because my wife can have her own layers for garden planting and I can have my layers for track layout. I hope it is as user friendly as it looks. Thank you for all of the help, I will keep reading and asking questions most of the summer and plan to break ground in fall after the vegatable garden has been harvested.
New question: Are all layouts based on a prototype or is it Kosher to have one which is slightly offbeat? I plan to base mine on a few of my childhood favorite TV shows.
Mark
Mark Selep said:Mark, it's your railroad and the only limitation is your imagination. The name of mine is the Rio Grande Southern, but in reality it isn't based on the old RGS. I'm just trying to get it to feel like an old time Rocky Mountain RR. Whether I succeed or not is another story.
New question: Are all layouts based on a prototype or is it Kosher to have one which is slightly offbeat? I plan to base mine on a few of my childhood favorite TV shows. Mark
The name of the game is “Have Fun!”
Quote from Mr Featherkile - The 1:32 folks say that they are the true scale for the Large Scale track which is 45 mm from railhead to railhead.’
This is true, and has been so since 1908.
Quote - ‘The 1:29 folks say that 1:32 is too small to run outside and should be limited to indoor railroads.’
This is total garbage. Here in Europe we have been running Gauge 1 - mostly live-steam - since the end of the 19th century. The gauge [45mm] and scale 1/32nd] was rationalised
by Henry Greenley in 1908.
Quote - ‘The debate sometimes gets amusing.’
I’ll second that.
Quote - ‘Other common narrow gauges are 42 inches, especially in Australia and New Zealand, and one meter in Europe.’
Not forgetting that at least 50% of all African railroads, and 90% of the entire system of South Africa [a country, BTW, not a district], is also 42 inches. Do not overlook the almost one hundred narrow gauge lines in the UK, mostly 2 foot gauge. There are literally dozens of live-steam models for the British NG scene - mostly with radio-control.
Quote - ‘If you want to model the old west, you can’t go far wrong by doing the Fn3 or 1:20.3. There are a lot of models made for that. If I were to start an Fn3 layout, I would use the largest radius curve that I could. I think that with your dimensions, the smallest curve I would use would be a ten (10) foot diameter (5 ft radius) curve. This will allow you to be able to run just about anything that is currently made. Anything tighter will only make your trains look silly as they go around the curves. In narrow gauge, the 20 ft diameter (10 ft radius) curve models the tightest curve that was ever used on the real railroads in the woods. Our model railroads necessarily have to use tighter curves because of space limitations.’
I totally agree with this paragraph.
tac
Ottawa Valley GRS
Quote by Tom Ruby - ‘…and 1/24 of meter gauge.’
Sir, I bleeve you meant 1/22.5 of metre gauge.
tac
Ottawa Valley GRS
Terry A de C Foley said:
Quote - 'The 1:29 folks say that 1:32 is too small to run outside and should be limited to indoor railroads.'This is total garbage. Here in Europe we have been running Gauge 1 - mostly live-steam - since the end of the 19th century. The gauge [45mm] and scale 1/32nd] was rationalised
by Henry Greenley in 1908.Quote - ‘The debate sometimes gets amusing.’
I’ll second that.
See what I mean about the debate getting amusing? TAC and I go at this every so often just to prove that we are still alive. :lol:
Enjoy your railroad. Both Terry and I do. Favor us with pictures of its development, please.
SteveF
Leave it to a new guy to start trouble! After about 18 hours on the internet in the last two days I am about convinced to go with Aristocraft euro style track. I plan on a dogbone with a 15’ radius around a pond and a 12’ radius on the other end. I don’t plan to start until fall so I guess I can change my mind several times yet. 1.22.5 seems to be the scale I need for Old West late 1800’s. I haven’t worked this hard on research since I sold my HO slot car hobby shop 6 years ago!
Mark
If you do finally go with 1:22 then LGB or USAT American series would be your products of choice. Also the Bachmann Annie and the older cars fit well. Stay away from Bachmann’s newer stuff like the Shays, Heisler or Climax as they are too big. Also Bachmann’s newest cars are also too big. Aristo Euro series track is a good choice as well as LGB track. Both work together and look ok together. I’d suggest painting your rail as the two will weather differently if left natural.
Warren Mumpower said:Further to what my good pal Warren has to say, I would recommend the LGB mogul without any reservations - another infrequent but much-valued member of this forum, my 'cousin' Jerry McColgan, has over 20 of these excellent and reliable workshorses, and loves 'em to bits. There are many versions too.
If you do finally go with 1:22 then LGB or USAT American series would be your products of choice. Also the Bachmann Annie and the older cars fit well. Stay away from Bachmann's newer stuff like the Shays, Heisler or Climax as they are too big. Also Bachmann's newest cars are also too big. Aristo Euro series track is a good choice as well as LGB track. Both work together and look ok together. I'd suggest painting your rail as the two will weather differently if left natural.
As for buildings, there are many Western-style kits from Pola, as well as a good few from local US-makers as well - get a copy of ‘Garden Railroad’ and see the advert pages.
you can get the older-style Jackson-Sharpe passenger cars on the internet, like I did, for around $30 or so, and re-paint them in your own schemes. The Hartland versions are also pretty good, but a deal more pricey. The older Delton/Classic versions from Aristocraft are worth looking out for, and the old C-16 loco is a long-time favourite with many of us, including our good friend Richard Smith down in Port Orford OR, who has all his batteried up and r/c’d - with full sound too.
Don’t wait until fall, you’ll kick yourself for missing out the summer!
Best wishes -
tac
Ottawa Valley GRS
Looked at websites last night until my eyeballs almost fell out. USA trains seems way to expensive, $1,900.00 was the best price I saw for a steam engine, ouch! LGB looks good but why is there such a wide price range? Will I get a good engine at $300.00 or do I need to move up to the $600.00 range to get something worthwhile? I like the LGB Wild West Forney steam loco. This would fit into my idea because it looks like something James West and Artimis Gorden would ride in. Would this be a good starting loco which could be modified to battery/RC?
As for buildings, so far Hobo Rails have realy tripped my trigger. Being in Texas where the summers are long and hot this kind of weathered building looks to meet my criteria.
Mark