Large Scale Central

LGB's full-page ad August Garden Railways

General Discussion
#21

Re: LGBoA’s 0-6-0 switcher… It may be coming sooner than we think. I was looking at a picture posted elsewhere by Jack Lynch taken at the Las Vegas show…and in the background I saw what looked like part of a new, unpainted locomotive. That indicates that the engineering model is complete and ready for approval or changes. If I’m allowed to read between the lines I’d say that the locomotive will be manufacturered by Piko and labeled LGBoA. The folks in the following picture…taken at the show is the LGBoA staff and the owners of Piko…Dr. Wilfer and his wife. Your conclusions may differ. Show pic:

An enlargement of the locomotive:

#22

Lousy picture deleted…

#23

John Bouck said:
Warren, With your permission, I hope.

There is a good picture of the 0-6-0 over on GR. Don’t know how Warren arrives at Piko doing the manufacturing, but if they do that would be a good thing as far as quality goes. On the scale bit hmmm they followed LGB lunatic 1:27 scale for the Euro SG stuff, but if it’s OEM the customer decides the scale. Which so far with LGBoA has been “suitable for G” and “As close as we can get it to 1:29”. Which is still “G - wie Gummi!”

#24

Production of this loco depends on access to tooling already available. The cab tooling is Chinese and the steam chest/cylinder tooling and the driveblock tooling are German derived. This loco is nothing more than a production ‘teaser’, ‘hobbled’ together from existing parts and newly crafted parts (boiler moulding). I seriously doubt that any new tooling has been manufactured to date. Rights to use of existing tooling need to be authorised first and new tooling manufactured before we could even think about a production date.

Lehmann were well known for placing teaser models in catalogues to hint at future production. A K-27 has been hinted at for a long time with no production release possible. The 0-6-0 will happen, only in the distant future and not just a few months away. Dave B. has already commented that it will be some time away before we actually see them on the shelves.

When one does a size comparison to the other equipment shown in the background of the photograph, it becomes apparent that this is not a small locomotive. It apears at least as high as the Genesis and materials handling car. The Genesis has already been ‘criticised’ for being oversized. I fear that the impact of the ‘gummi’ scale disease is still current. LGBoA have started with a clean slate on this loco (setting aside existing tooling restrictions) and yet still have not realised the need for a true-scale (well 1/29 anyway) loco to complement existing equipment from other manufacturers. Remember when all the other manufacturers were trying to match their products to be compatible with LGB. Well now LGBoA have found themselves in the passive situation where they may have to complement existing equipment from established manufacturers. Their response is ‘we manufacture our equipment to complement other products in our range’. In other words, we will not build something to complement items produced by others. This will be the make or break decision for LGBoA. Aristo and USA Trains have set the current standards for ‘standard’ gauge and it appears that LGBoA have decided that the complementary play value of a complementing range of products is more important than producing something which may actually be successful in the marketplace. The cousins may not still be around (?) but the Germanic snobbery/ego is still present.

#25

Of course it will be “some time”. Generally, if they have a preproduction model it’s about a year out from the shelves.

Tim, the way you were using the “we” above, I’m not sure if you are on the board of directors of LGBoA or have a mouse in your pocket…:confused: but I feel that they are progressing steadily on the project.

HJ, I said I was reading between the lines but I don’t think the Wilfers came all the way from Germany to sell a few locomotives and vacation in Vegas. I think they are here for 2 reasons…(1) to talk turkey with LGBoA, and (2) to make a statement by their presence. It would be very logical for LGBoA to use them to manufacture their products…at least in the beginning stages. Now quit being so dang negative…:stuck_out_tongue:

#26

Warren,
the use of ‘we’ is a quote from Jack Lynch several months ago on MLS forum.

       In so far as the Wilfer's presence,  then Piko has a vested interest in assuring a market for their Taurus and diesel loco, planned for late 2007/early 2008 release.  Piko need to establish a market for this oversized loco and considering that the only available equipment to use with this loco is the 1/27 scale German 'standard' gauge coaches recently released by LGB and no longer in production,  Piko need to have a rapport with LGBoA as they see them as holding the key to future production of the 'standard' gauge coaches.  Without the production of these coaches the market for the Piko loco is dead in the water.  


       Piko need to see a return on their investment costs and LGBoA is important as an ally, to ensure prosperity.  LGBoA are also the distributor for the Piko product line and making a personal appearance bolsters consumer confidence in the product line.  I see China as the production source for the loco as production costs are able to be better controlled (cheaper).
#27

Hmmmmm…Piko.
Best of both worlds. German and Asian production. Did I hear someone say the quality is good?
Wow! I think Piko could the company to watch in the future.

#28
Warren Mumpower said:
......................................

HJ, I said I was reading between the lines but I don’t think the Wilfers came all the way from Germany to sell a few locomotives and vacation in Vegas. I think they are here for 2 reasons…(1) to talk turkey with LGBoA, and (2) to make a statement by their presence. It would be very logical for LGBoA to use them to manufacture their products…at least in the beginning stages. Now quit being so dang negative…:stuck_out_tongue:


Warren,

There is an update on the Piko website regarding their trip to LV

In my opinion this is the most pertinent paragraph

Piko said:
Derzeit befindet sich der G-Markt allerdings auch in den USA in einem großen Umbruch, da die Insolvenz von LGB in Nürnberg auch hier Spuren hinterlässt. Die Tatsache, dass faktisch seit November 2006 keine Produktion mehr bei LGB gelaufen ist, beschert dem Markt Probleme in der Produktversorgung. Zwar gibt es bei den -auch auf der Show- ausstellenden Händlern noch eine große Zahl von LGB Produkten, doch Neuheiten fehlen. Besonders ein G-Gleissystem fehlt am Markt.
[i] At the moment the US G market is going through changes, since the LGB insolvency leaves clear marks. The fact that there has been no production of any consequence since Nov 2006 causes problems in the supply line. Despite the large number of items the dealers offered at the show, there is no new products. What is missing most of all is a G track system.[/i]

You know what I mean?? :wink: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Would Piko OEM an American 0-6-0? I don’t see why not, my comments regarding the relative scale are stritctly based on experience.
Jack Lynch was asked several times what scale the LGB Genesis is. His reply, prior to switching to “suitable for G”, was “As close to 1:29 as I can get it!”

#29
Tim Brien said:
.......................................

The cousins may not still be around (?) but the Germanic snobbery/ego is still present.

…


Tim,

It could have been Elvis who was sighted in Vegas or it could have been one of the cousins (disguised as Elvis??)! What are the chances, eh?? You just never know nowadays, do you?!? :wink: :slight_smile:

#30

HJ,
interesting comment from the Wilfers on expansion of their ‘g-system’. The translation, to expect ‘novelty’ items from Piko was a little confusing. Something to do with the translation. To ‘establish’ a market for their loco, Piko may have to expand their current ‘standard’ gauge catalogue to include freight cars as well. Without the German passenger cars from LGB, the Taurus and diesel are little more than novelty items.

#31

Tim,
I think there is enough LGB product floating around out there to put together a consist for Piko’s engines. I think Dr. Wilfer is smart enough to be working on cars to go with his locomotives, don’t you?

#32
Tim Brien said:
HJ, interesting comment from the Wilfers on expansion of their 'g-system'. The translation, to expect 'novelty' items from Piko was a little confusing. Something to do with the translation. To 'establish' a market for their loco, Piko may have to expand their current 'standard' gauge catalogue to include freight cars as well. Without the German passenger cars from LGB, the Taurus and diesel are little more than novelty items.
Tim,

Last year, in an interview with the GARTENBAHNprofi, Dr. Wilfer mentioned that the calculation for cars doesn’t compute. That was then, this is now; that tune probably has new lyrics. I’d say wait for the BR218 to hit the market. :wink: :slight_smile:

On that “market” problem, nothing preventing anyone running the Taurus and the BR218 with NA rolling stock. Remember they keep telling everyone “it’s only a hobby”, besides the German engines will feel right at home on many layouts with the German structures. Anything goes! :wink: :lol: :lol:

I’ve looked at enough layout pictures that little will surprise me. :wink: :slight_smile:

#33
John Joseph Sauer said:
Tim, I think there is enough LGB product floating around out there to put together a consist for Piko's engines. I think Dr. Wilfer is smart enough to be working on cars to go with his locomotives, don't you?
JJ

We have heard the stories about “enough LGB product” for some time, seems that the dealers have a slightly different take on that; starting with track! :lol:

#34

Perhaps Piko will fill the track void, eh?

#35

I’d bet a dollar to a donut that if you take the Taurus locomotive and paint it NJ Transit and do the same with the Amfleet cars you would see them vanish off the shelves in a blink. Granted, NJT doesn’t use the Taurus, but it does use the ALP46 aka DB101, a very similar locomotive.

Why does their release say there is no “G” track system? What happened to Aristocraft (besides the price increase)? What’s wrong with USAT? What about Llagas Creek? etc, etc, etc. The only thing missing is LGB, and as announced, Accucraft…whoopie! There’s lots of track there. The situation may be different in Europe, but we are talking about the USA when it comes to the Vegas show. Press releases are just that…releases and they can say anything. What’s really going on behind the scenes can be an entirely different story.

#36
Warren Mumpower said:
.......................................................

What’s really going on behind the scenes can be an entirely different story.


Precisely!

But to get a better feel about Piko, you need to look at the range of items they produce and how it is sorted into particular slots.

BTW the Taurus is as boxy as the 101 but that’s about all. :wink: Of course if you don’t know the differences, then a paint job will be just the ticket. Remember the LGB SG Alco??

#37

I recall the fistfights (which of course I won all of) when some yo-yo decided to call my '50 Ford a Dumb Cook.
I mean, Stupid Baker.
Errr…Studebaker.

All in the eye of the beholder.

Can you say “Pacificado”?

aaaaarrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

#38

JJ,
while we accept the fact that the Piko line is standard gauge, I feel that modellers would rather run it with similar standard gauge rolling stock. I have seen it run with the narrow-gauge rolling stock and it left me bemused. Similiarly, I would not run a narrow-gauge mogul with standard gauge American stock or an F7A/B with narrow-gauge rolling stock. The product may be ‘incorrectly scaled’ but I would not compromise it as you have suggested.

I feel that Piko invested in the Taurus line on the expectation that LGB and its standard gauge coaches would be around for many years to come.  Definately unfortunate timing on Mr. Wilfers part.
#39
Tim Brien said:
HJ, interesting comment from the Wilfers on expansion of their 'g-system'. The translation, to expect 'novelty' items from Piko was a little confusing. Something to do with the translation. To 'establish' a market for their loco, Piko may have to expand their current 'standard' gauge catalogue to include freight cars as well. Without the German passenger cars from LGB, the Taurus and diesel are little more than novelty items.
As H-J or me or any other German-speakers here would be aware, the German word 'Neuheit' means 'novelty' in the old-fashioned English manner, that is to say, an item of newness. The word 'novelty' in English has, over the last hundred years or so, assumed the meaning of an item that is not only new, but also unusual in context and or design, like a solar-powered spoon or combination folding canoe/can-opener.

Notwithstanding Herr Doktor Wilfer’s somewhat ‘novelty’ design eye-glasses, I suspect that we have seen the last of large-scale ‘bubble-blowing dinosaurs playing the national anthem’ cars.

tac

#40

I wonder if all this huib bub and fodder would have been stated about Delton when they folded, if the internet would have been around?