Large Scale Central

LGB's full-page ad August Garden Railways

General Discussion
#1

At the bottom of the LGB of America’s Bridgewerks ad, in the green band, nothing could be clearer than the statement “LGB and LGB of America are registered trademarks of LGB of America, Inc. Other trademarks are the property of their owners.”

Nothing could be clearer.

LGB as a trademark is delared registered. The declared registration ownership is LGB of America. Both those ideas make clear to me that LGB in Germany does not own the LGB trademark.

Question: How can registration not mean ownership?

Is one reasonable conclusion being the LGB registration is with the United States and not in Germany and therefore there is dispute? Or, was the registration of ownership, in fact, made in Germany?

Any further information?

Wendell

#2

Wendell,

Last time I checked the registrars website (early this year) it was still the old dual registration. At that time someone was telling me that the registrar was months and months behind with updating (yes, there’s a bridge for sale in Brooklyn)

And I have just checked again:

result for LGB of America

USPTO said:
Word Mark LGB OF AMERICA Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: model railroad parts and Fittings, namely, electromagnetic drives, electrical transformers, electric motors for machines, electrical and computer controllers, electromechanical controls for use in model railroads, remote controls for electric toy trains, electric measuring instruments, distributors for electric toy vehicles, electrical relays, resistors, rectifiers, electronic equipment for testing voltage, data processors, computer interface boards for electric toy and model railroads

IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: model toy train sets and their related accessories, namely, toy train vehicle engines, toy cars and railway [ cards ] * cars * , toy railway tracks, toy cable railroads, action figures and accessories therefor, mechanical action toys, toy banks, toy building blocks, toy construction blocks, toy boxes, cases for play accessories, cases for toy vehicles, computer game joysticks, doll accessories, doll house furnishings, dolls and play sets therefor, electric action toys, game wheels, toy model vehicles, electronically operated toy motor vehicles, toy noisemakers, soft sculpture plush toys, toy animals, toy vehicles, wind-up working toys, wind-up walking toys and wind-up toys
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Design Search Code
Serial Number 75542363
Filing Date August 25, 1998
Current Filing Basis 44E
Original Filing Basis 44E
Published for Opposition June 20, 2000
Change In Registration CHANGE IN REGISTRATION HAS OCCURRED
Registration Number 2384674
Registration Date September 12, 2000
Owner (REGISTRANT) Ernst Paul Lehmann Patentwerk composed of Johannes Richter and Wolfgang Richter, both citizens of Germany PARTNERSHIP FED REP GERMANY Saganer Strasse 1 - 5 DE 90475 Nurnberg FED REP GERMANY

(LAST LISTED OWNER) LGB OF AMERICA CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 6444 NANCY RIDGE DRIVE SAN DIEGO CALIFORNIA 92121
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record KENNETH F. FLOREK
Prior Registrations 1575184;1980941;AND OTHERS
Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE “OF AMERICA” APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR).
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE


result for -L-G-B-

USPTO said:
Word Mark -L-G-B- Goods and Services IC 028. US 022. G & S: MODEL RAILROAD EQUIPMENT, NAMELY, ENGINES, CARS, TRACK AND ACCESSORIES RELATED THERETO. FIRST USE: 19680102. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19680715 Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Design Search Code 24.07.14 - Plaques 26.11.21 - Rectangles that are completely or partially shaded 26.11.25 - Rectangles with one or more curved sides 26.11.28 - Miscellaneous designs with overall rectangular shape; Rectangular shapes (miscellaneous overall shape) Serial Number 73729836 Filing Date May 20, 1988 Current Filing Basis 1A Original Filing Basis 1A Published for Opposition October 10, 1989 Registration Number 1575184 Registration Date January 2, 1990 Owner (REGISTRANT) ERNST PAUL LEHMANN, PATENTWERK CORPORATION FED REP GERMANY SAGANER STRASSE 1-5 NURNBERG FED REP GERMANY 50 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Attorney of Record TIMOTHY X. GIBSON, ESQ. Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20000811. Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 20000811 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
result for LGB
USPTO said:
Word Mark LGB Goods and Services IC 028. US 022. G & S: model railroad equipment, namely, engines, cars, track and accessories related thereto. FIRST USE: 19680102. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19680715 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Design Search Code Serial Number 74088171 Filing Date August 15, 1990 Current Filing Basis 1A Original Filing Basis 1A Published for Opposition May 14, 1991 Registration Number 1653165 Registration Date August 6, 1991 Owner (REGISTRANT) ERNST PAUL LEHMANN, PATENTWERK CORPORATION FED REP GERMANY Saganer Strasse 1-5 D-8500 Nurnberg 50 FED REP GERMANY Attorney of Record TIMOTHY X. GIBSON Prior Registrations 1453310;1575184;1583772;1603910;AND OTHERS Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20011020. Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 20011020 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
If the registration was changed - big if! - the registrar must be really behind with updating. OTOH .......... remember that claim from Schöntag that all rights reverted to "The Patentwerk" when insolvency was filed.

You know you can print anything you like as long as no one challenges you. :wink: Now the Castellano press release of Feb 14th claiming the rights was publicly challenged by E P Lehmann GmbH & Co KG who in the mean time declared insolvency. However that doesn’t change the challenge as such, since the rights supposedly reverted back to the “Patentwerk” and in that case would be part of the assets of the insolvent Ernst Paul Lehmann Patentwerk oHG.
And the Saga around that insolvency is still in progress with the latest installments in today’s NN.

It’s a long and winding road! :wink:

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney nor am I connected in any which manner with any of the parties to the insolvencies of LGB. I am not even from Missouri, but to convince me one needs to show legitimate proof. :wink:

WV said:
Rep. Willard D. Vandiver, 45, (D. Mo.) addresses a naval dinner at Philadelphia and says, "I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me."

The People’s Chronology is licensed from Henry Holt and Company, Inc. Copyright © 1995, 1996 by James Trager. All rights reserved.

#3

Wendell,
just prior to claiming insolvency, around September, 2006, LGB ‘transferred’ the company "LGBoA’ and a very large inventory of stock to the offices of LGBoA. The inventory formed the basis of the now famous LGB ‘firesale’ (revenue raising) and now forms the backbone of the current stock on hand at the wharehouse. No mention was made at the time of monetary renumeration or the transfer of trademark rights and ownership. The transfer alerted the creditor banks to clamp up their interest in the company. The timing of the transfer and the insolvency application are of importance here, leading to the claim by Schontag that all trademark rights revert to the owner of EPL Patenwerk (as of around February, 2007). The validity of claim of ownership of marketting and ownership rights, is yet to be challenged in court. Shortly after the collapse of the Schontag company, a media report from Castellano proudly proclaimed that LGBoA had worldwide marketting rights to the LGB trademark, outside of Germany. Since that proclamation, there has been little public release of information as to actual ownership of the rights.

       One needs to view the whole saga as a complete entity,  rather than break it down into individual portions.  The untimely withdrawal of funding for the Schontag bid took the wind out of Schontag's sails as regards his claim of rights ownership,  leaving the way clear for the claims by LGBoA.   Depending on which side of the discussion one takes,  it is either a very clever business strategy or a conspiracy theory.
#4

Here the text of the press release from EPL GmbH dated Feb 16th 2007

EPL GmbH said:
PRESSEMITTEILUNG PRESS RELEASE

Am 14. Februar gab Tony Castellano, “President of LGB of America” eine
offizielle Presseerklärung ab.
Diese Pressemitteilung von LGBoA kommentiert E.P.LEHMANN GmbH & Co KG wie
folgt:

Entgegen der Darstellung von LGB of America sind die US-Markenrechte und
US-copyrights mit dem Verkauf der LGB of America an G45 am 1.9.2006
automatisch an E.P.LEHMANN PATENTWERK OHG zurückgefallen. E.P.LEHMANN GmbH
& Co. KG als Rechtsnachfolger ist somit Eigentümer aller Markenrechte
weltweit.
E.P.LEHMANN GmbH & Co. KG hofft in den nächsten Tagen, gemeinsam mit der
LGB of America, eine einvernehmliche Erklärung zu den unterschiedlichen
Ansichten geben zu können.

Tony Castellano „President of LGB of America“ recently published an
official Press Release.
E.P.LEHMANN GmbH & Co. KG comment on this Press Release as follows:

Contrary to LGB of America’s interpretation all US-trademarks and UScopyrights
worldwide reverted automatically back to E.P.LEHMANN PATENTWERK
OHG upon transferring ownership of LGB of America to G45 on September 1st,
2006. Therefore, E.P.LEHMANN GmbH & Co. KG as the successor in title is
the owner of all trademarks and copyrights worldwide.
E.P.LEHMANN GmbH & Co. KG is confident to release an amicable statement
together with LGB of America regarding the different interpretations
within the next days.

E.P.LEHMANN GmbH & Co. KG

Nürnberg, 16. Februar 2007


This arrived via email as a text message and a PDF on LGB letterhead. :wink:

#5

Since this was issued by Scontag- who never finished buying the company it has no legal legs to stand on. The final trademark issue will most likely be decided when someone actually owns the company.

#6
John Joseph Sauer said:
Since this was issued by Scontag- who never finished buying the company it has no legal legs to stand on. The final trademark issue will most likely be decided when someone actually owns the company.
JJ

Would it be possible that Schöntag talked to a legal advisor and came away with what is in that press release?

EPL GmbH said:
............................... Contrary to LGB of America's interpretation all US-trademarks and UScopyrights worldwide reverted automatically back to E.P.LEHMANN PATENTWERK OHG upon transferring ownership of LGB of America to G45 on September 1st, 2006. .........................................
But you're right, this is a far cry from being over. ;) :)

There are some very interesting rumblings out of Bavaria, which haven’t hit the press, yet!

#7
John Joseph Sauer said:
Since this was issued by Scontag- who never finished buying the company it has no legal legs to stand on. The final trademark issue will most likely be decided when someone actually owns the company.
Would you buy the company without settling who owned the trademark first?

If you were an investor and found out that Schontag didn’t own the trade mark…or it was in question would you back out of the deal?

It has been suggested that Mr Schontag is less than ethical in his business dealings. Do you suppose that he may have been trying to call a bluff? Many lawyers will do that in a heartbeat and his may have suggested that Schontag do so. Knowing the rumors and allegations about Schoentag’s ethical behavior, what type of lawyer do you think he may be inclined to hire?..especially considering birds of a feather flock together. Time will tell…and it looks like time is getting shorter.

#8

Here we go again…:frowning: :frowning:
Sigh…
The “Armchair Economists of LSC”, Lmtd, Inc, & LLC. :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

jb

#9
John Bouck said:
Here we go again............:( :( Sigh............................ The "Armchair Economists of LSC", Lmtd, Inc, & LLC. :) :)

jb


John,

This one isn’t even about economics, this one is a legal question. :wink: :slight_smile:

My conclusion: one can publish anything in an ad, as long as there is no objection from a supposedly aggrieved party (parties).

#10

John ,
I should give up on it if I were you , there is about to be another boring announcement about further buyers . Gawd 'elp us . Just think what crap that will give birth to .
What amuses me is that I joked last year that the bidder for LGB was a bit suspect , all I got was a dire warning about slander . Ho Hum . My prediction proved surprisingly accurate . It’s all in the goat intestines you know , spread them around and read them . Makes as much sense .
Mike

#11

Reading goat intestines sure beats wading in sheep dip. :smiley:

#12

Never tried either , Warren .
I leave that to other soothsayers .
Mike M

#13

<>

Mike, Ol’ buddy, I gave up on the first day of this fiasco! :slight_smile: :slight_smile:
I dinna care wot happens to LGB, or who buys it.
I just think it’s amusing now, listening to the
“LSC Armchair Economists, LTD, INC, LLC”
Mebbe that above company should buy LGB. They got all the problems solved and answers answered.

…tongue firmly wedged in cheek :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

The Old Geezer–JB

#14

It is highly amusing to watch on various forums.

Oh, well.

#15

Seuthe-sayers ?

#16

Trust you to throw a smoke screen over the post

Mike m

#17

Meanwhile, back to the topic:

From the topic posting contributions, it appears LGB of America has declared, and repeated this declaration, of ownership (and presumed rights of use) of the trademark LGB and the right to produce LGB branded products. One question is whether any eventual buyer of LGB (Germany) will also declare they have also purchased LGB of America. That challenge may be made focused on either a pre-bankruptcy relocation or sale of LGB’s brand name and products to a corporate site in San Diego, California, which we know as G45 and/or LGB of America.

My curiosity focuses on what likely will be the final court’s question: Was there legal sale of LGB to G45, San Diego, or was it LGB relocating to an existing corporate structure in San Diego? Surely, there will eventually be a court decision as to whether there was just a transfer or a corporate contractual sale of the company to G45.

If a legal interpretation is secured by a new buyer that it was a relocation of corporate operations, my guess is there will be discussion by LGB’s new owner as to what LGB of America’s role will be in the production and distribution of LGB labeled products. If not, I think there would be very significant marketing consequences.

My guess is if any new owner stripped LGB of America’s rights to use the LGB brand they would lose a valued distribution system, repair center, and a mechanism for producing American-based LGB rolling stock.

Any futher helpful information?

Wendell

#18

Or maybe they will partner with another manufacturer and change thier name.

#19
Wendell Hanks said:
Meanwhile, back to the topic:

From the topic posting contributions, it appears LGB of America has declared, and repeated this declaration, of ownership (and presumed rights of use) of the trademark LGB and the right to produce LGB branded products. One question is whether any eventual buyer of LGB (Germany) will also declare they have also purchased LGB of America. That challenge may be made focused on either a pre-bankruptcy relocation or sale of LGB’s brand name and products to a corporate site in San Diego, California, which we know as G45 and/or LGB of America.

My curiosity focuses on what likely will be the final court’s question: Was there legal sale of LGB to G45, San Diego, or was it LGB relocating to an existing corporate structure in San Diego? Surely, there will eventually be a court decision as to whether there was just a transfer or a corporate contractual sale of the company to G45.

If a legal interpretation is secured by a new buyer that it was a relocation of corporate operations, my guess is there will be discussion by LGB’s new owner as to what LGB of America’s role will be in the production and distribution of LGB labeled products. If not, I think there would be very significant marketing consequences.

My guess is if any new owner stripped LGB of America’s rights to use the LGB brand they would lose a valued distribution system, repair center, and a mechanism for producing American-based LGB rolling stock.

Any futher helpful information?

Wendell


Wendell,

It all depends who the “lucky bidder” is. When that decision is taken i.e. when the banks decide which way the cookie crumbles, there could be several additional steps as a result of that decision.

All one hears at the moment is ominous rumbles that are sure not to be published right now. Suffice to say that the situation looks quite different from that projected during the last three months of 2006.

#20

I think just because something is in an Ad in GR it does not mean it is true. I read in a magazine the other day that a woman gave birth to a dog.

Claiming rights to something that might actually be owned to an insolvent company in bankruptcy and in no position to fight such matters in court is no big effort nor does it prove anything.

We just have to wait and see what develops after/if what remains of LGB is sold.

Right now, the only real curiosity I have is if the 0-6-0 announced by LGBoA will ever materialize, and if it will be a reasonable product in terms of quality, design, etc.

Regards, Greg