Large Scale Central

LGB: Will it end up buying what it already owns?

General Discussion
#1

Following the thread from Hans’ translations, and previous data from memory, is any or all of the following accurate:

  1. LGB of America is under the corporate umbrella of “G-45”, with David Buffington as the CEO.
  2. G-45 was incorporated prior to the public declaration by LGB (of Germany?) declaring bankruptcy.
  3. G-45 fiscally considers itself an entity separate from LGB of Germany – which may or may not be disputed.
  4. G-45 acclaims rights to manufacturer LGB products on its own via LGB of America as the distributor.
  5. LGB of America is the stated source for an announced 0-6-0 switcher and production of a German-style electric loco.
  6. Still in contention is any LGB of Am. or G-45’s corporate financial liability to the German LGB company and logo ownership with rights to produce and market LGB products.

Wendell

#2
Wendell Hanks said:
Following the thread from Hans' translations, and previous data from memory, is any or all of the following accurate:
  1. LGB of America is under the corporate umbrella of “G-45”, with David Buffington as the CEO.
  2. G-45 was incorporated prior to the public declaration by LGB (of Germany?) declaring bankruptcy.
  3. G-45 fiscally considers itself an entity separate from LGB of Germany – which may or may not be disputed.
  4. G-45 acclaims rights to manufacturer LGB products on its own via LGB of America as the distributor.
  5. LGB of America is the stated source for an announced 0-6-0 switcher and production of a German-style electric loco.
  6. Still in contention is any LGB of Am. or G-45’s corporate financial liability to the German LGB company and logo ownership with rights to produce and market LGB products.

Wendell


That’s more or less it, in a nutshell! Minor adjustments as things progress, like that little interlude with the LGB websites.

BTW Wendell :wink: :wink: you keep asking specific questions like that and next thing you know you’ll be counted as a card carrying “RedBoxHatersBrigade” member. :lol: :wink: :wink:

#3

Hello Hans!

Good point noting the possibility of my being extolled as a critic of LGB.

I think we agree objective inquiry can unfortunately lead to outcomes injurious to all parties concerned with virtually any topic.
Certainly this is accurate in my classsroom discussions. Classroom discussion starting with inquiry produces thinking responses and those who do not like their own thinking don’t like defending it. So one alternative response is to negate the person making such inquiry.

Fortunately, the classroom (Speech and Argumentation courses) gives opportunity to discuss the motives for speaking as much as what is said.

Meanwhile, the LGB topic is still very compelling.

Thanks again for your insights, analysis, and translations.
As to your translations, one of our German teachers has read two of your translated epistles – she agrees with you wholeheartedly.

I await the latest.

Thanks,

Wendell

#4

Hi Wendell,

Thank you!

It’s easy to be termed a LGB critic or LGB hater. :wink: :slight_smile:

From discussions with people on the subject, it seems easier to pass over the subject of the discussion when you’re on the loosing end and swerve off into the personal, non-connected area. Usually a typical sign of people being short on solid, cogent arguments and depending on emotions.

When the 3.7 million Euro was mentioned by Schöntag and appeared in print - remember the debt load/outstanding loans prior to insolvency were in the 20 million range - I said WOW!
If all those who proclaim their “absolute loyalty” would have chipped in 500 Euro each - the price of a modest LGB engine - Schöntag would have plenty of money to cover the shortfall and some extra for re-startup.

Looks like there will be more on this saga. :wink: :slight_smile:

#5

There you go again , criticising . hans , grow out of it or shut up .

Mike

#6
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
When the 3.7 million Euro was mentioned by Schöntag and appeared in print - remember the debt load/outstanding loans prior to insolvency were in the 20 million range - I said WOW! If all those who proclaim their "absolute loyalty" would have chipped in 500 Euro each - the price of a modest LGB engine - Schöntag would have plenty of money to cover the shortfall and some extra for re-startup.

Looks like there will be more on this saga. :wink: :slight_smile:


And the investment capital from loyal fans has & is on the table, but you probably did not know that fact.

#7

"It’s easy to be termed a LGB critic or LGB hater. "

If the shoes fits…

#8
Mike Morgan said:
There you go again , criticising . hans , grow out of it or shut up .

Mike


Mike,

Last time I looked this forum wasn’t run by you. Perhaps you should take your own advice and tone it down.

I find it quite interesting that there wasn’t a wimper regarding my participation on this forum from the time I joined 5 years ago until your highness showed up and couldn’t stand whatever I had to say about whichever mfg or for that matter whichever way one could solve a problem.
Perhaps you should get over it and just ignore my posts, I quite habitually - with very few exceptions - ignore yours, especially the ones with the personal attacks.

PS I’m well aware that there’s an “h” in whimper! :wink: :slight_smile:

#9

Well , you finally spoke up for yourself .

No , I do not run the forum . The man who does that has infinitely more patience than me .

That does not make you right , however , especially as you have thrown people off your forum for less . Think about it . Would you tolerate the bs you come out with on your forum ?

Now stop hijacking threads , and if you wish to continue this discussion , send an email . Which unlike you , I will answer .

Meanwhile , back to the LGB saga , which if I remember rightly , was started with a gleefully nasty report by hans .

Will LGB finish up buying what it already owns ? Like what , its name ? 'cos right now it only owns good will—what bit is left .

Let us all in the meantime hope for the recovery to trading status of LGB , which has served many of us well in the past and was changing to meet the market when it went pop .

Mike

ps there is an “H” in whimper . There isn’t in wimp .

#10
Wendell Hanks said:
Hello Hans!

SNIP.

Certainly this is accurate in my classsroom discussions. Classroom discussion starting with inquiry produces thinking responses and those who do not like their own thinking don’t like defending it. So one alternative response is to negate the person making such inquiry.

SNIP!

Wendell


That is called shooting the messenger.

Can’t face the facts.
Don’t like the facts.
Simple.
Shoot the messenger.
Great old Roman tradition still living today.

#11
Mike Morgan said:
SNIP

No , I do not run the forum . The man who does that has infinitely more patience than me .

SNIP

Mike


Infintely more common sense too.

#12
Mike Morgan said:
No , I do not run the forum . The man who does that has infinitely more patience than me .
The man who does has run out of patience, and has his gun loaded. All of you guys need to take a deep breath, step back, calm down, and shut the (*#&($* up. If you want to defend / detract / comment about LGB, do it with facts, translations, articles, etc. If I continue to see posts with off-topic personal attacks, heads will roll. In sick of all of you, and, quite frankly, dont want to deal with your crap any more in a site I run as a *HOBBY*.

You retards have pushed me into the “Im going to delete posts” area I thought Id never get to. Anyone who gets to a score of 5 deleted posts is going to get my size 9s up their ass.

This is the END of personal attacks on this site.

The clue phone is ringing. Are you guys adult enough to answer it?

#13
Bob McCown said:
This is the *END* of personal attacks on this site.
Hallelujah! And amen, brother.
#14

I trust my initial six observations - stated as awaiting affirmation as to being key topics in following the outcome of LGB – remain worthy of following and comment.

Further:
If two divisions of LGB were to survive financial and legal challenges, from our interest I think it worthwhile evaluating if LGB of America and LGB of Germany co-existing would be best for the large scale hobby.

Your thoughts?

Wendell

#15

My opinion is yes…if LGBoA and LGBoDe don’t cross duplicate product. LGBoA should stick with American outline product and Germany stick with European outline product. Then they could coexist. Another way would be if LGBoA handled the scale end of production and Germany with Gummi Gauge.

It’s my belief that LGBoA will wind up with the whole hog. It’s my opinion that that was their goal from day one and may be behind some of the shenanigans that’s currently stopping a sale of LGB to anyone else. They may not have to buy anything. Just pick up the crumbs when it’s all said and done and start production…the original LGB assets sold off without further production. It’s possible that Schontag was set up to be hung out to dry with the hopes that everyone else from that point on would be gun shy. Seems to be working…:confused:

#16

Warren,
You need to be careful what you say and how you say it.
I would be loath to making any sort of accusation about “shenanigans” or “being hung out to dry”.

I know from personal experience that owners of Internationally known trademarks can get very aggressive legally when it comes to defending what they “own”.

Even having a “name” legally registered by a government authority in Australia, is no defense in International law.

It may take a bit longer yet to get to the truth of the LGB saga.
It depends on how seriously the banks involved take the potential loss of some 24 million Euros, as to what may be the outcome.
Around 30 million Euros owing to the banks, minus around 6 million Euros purchase price in the fire sale = 24 million Euros loss to the banks.
Or, put another way, possibly 24 million Euros profit to someone. Less of course, the cost of the “transaction”.

#17
Wendell Hanks said:
As to your translations, one of our German teachers has read two of your translated epistles -- she agrees with you wholeheartedly. Wendell
As indeed she should.

H-J Mueller [please note that kinda German-looking name] is a native German-speaker of a country where German is one of the four main languages.

I guess that H-J should be pleased to be advised that he can speak his own language so well, eh?

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

#18
Terry A de C Foley said:
Wendell Hanks said:
As to your translations, one of our German teachers has read two of your translated epistles -- she agrees with you wholeheartedly. Wendell
As indeed she should.

H-J Mueller [please note that kinda German-looking name] is a native German-speaker of a country where German is one of the four main languages.

I guess that H-J should be pleased to be advised that he can speak his own language so well, eh?

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS


TAC

There has been the “odd occasion” (either meaning applies) when certain people questioned my linguistic abilities. Some of the same people have considerable problems with their native English, let alone a second, third or fourth language.
But that’s OK; first thing when questions arise: consider the source! :wink: :slight_smile:

I believe Wendell’s comment was in reference to the “odd occasions”.

BTW some of those people like to use Google, Babelfish, AV etc. etc. to check “things”.

I do too, so let’s have a bit of fun with a very simple sentence.

“Schöntag und Richter sind oder waren die Besitzer von LGB”

Google: “Beautiful day and judges are or were the owners of LGB”

Altavista/Babelfish: “Beautiful day and judges are or were the owners of LGB”

Since both utilities come up with the exact same translation, they must be correct!

Of course there have been questions before regarding translations; there is no better way to illustrate the prowess of the utilities than to have them translate the nonsense back to the original language:

“Beautiful day and judges are or were the owners of LGB”

Babelfish: “schöner Tag und Richter sind oder waren die Inhaber von LGB”

Google: “Schöner Tag und Richter sind oder waren die Inhaber von LGB”

Do that same routine with a more involved sentence and those who quibble will cry foul and the rest of the audience will bend over with laughter.

I usually tell the quibblers that translations stand or fall with the nuances that are picked up and applied.

“So it goes” (Kurt Vonnegut)

:wink: :slight_smile:

#19
TonyWalsham said:
Warren, You need to be careful what you say and how you say it. I would be loath to making any sort of accusation about "shenanigans" or "being hung out to dry".
Tony I've been having the same suspicions Warren has been having, I would be carefull to state that this was my own personal opinion based on observations of the events as they unfold (which I do beleive theres still no law against). But it wouldnt surprise me one bit if all this wasnt a long game plan to shift the majority proprierty of EPL from Germany to the US (my opinion only), with LGBoA being the mass marketer, and LGBoG being retained as a more beautique manufacturer like Kiss. I held this opinion early on in this debacle (its still only my opinion), I still suspect it is the end game of all this. I have other suspicions about debt, creditors, and how to get out of debt while screwing your creditors (again my opinion only) but I really dont want to get into that, not yet anyway. Oh Well, time will tell.:)
#20
Warren Mumpower said:
It's possible that Schontag was set up to be hung out to dry with the hopes that everyone else from that point on would be gun shy.:/
OR it's possible he shot himself in the foot?