Tony, I have no fears over what I’ve said. First, I did make it clear that it was “my opinion”. That, I’m entitled to…at least in the US. As far as “being hung out to dry”, that is Mr. Schontag’s words, not mine.
Victor Smith said:Vic,TonyWalsham said:Tony I've been having the same suspicions Warren has been having, I would be carefull to state that this was my own personal opinion based on observations of the events as they unfold (which I do beleive theres still no law against). But it wouldnt surprise me one bit if all this wasnt a long game plan to shift the majority proprierty of EPL from Germany to the US (my opinion only), with LGBoA being the mass marketer, and LGBoG being retained as a more beautique manufacturer like Kiss. I held this opinion early on in this debacle (its still only my opinion), I still suspect it is the end game of all this. I have other suspicions about debt, creditors, and how to get out of debt while screwing your creditors (again my opinion only) but I really dont want to get into that, not yet anyway. Oh Well, time will tell.:)
Warren, You need to be careful what you say and how you say it. I would be loath to making any sort of accusation about "shenanigans" or "being hung out to dry".
Exactly right, but one has to be careful even with one’s own opinions. Remember I used to have the “This is, as always, strictly my opinion” missive as my sign off.
There are two things in the LGB Saga which are of great interest for me
a) Who are the owners of “G45”?
b) Who were the co-investors that bailed on Schöntag?
Comment to a): no telling with a Delaware incorporation; unless there will be a court proceeding of some kind at some point. Which is exactly what happened to Lord Black, very big surprise that was!
on b) the likelihood of Schöntag divulging that is remote, but you never know. 
Sometimes all it takes is the right people asking the right questions at the right time.
“So it goes” (Kurt Vonnegut)
Warren Mumpower said:Yes, but I don't recall him saying he "was set up".
As far as "being hung out to dry", that is Mr. Schontag's words, not mine.
Warren Mumpower said:Warren,
Tony, I have no fears over what I've said. First, I did make it clear that it was [b]"my opinion".[/b] That, I'm entitled to...at least in the US. As far as "being hung out to dry", that is Mr. Schontag's words, not mine.
Actuall y that’s how I translated Schöntags words.
“Ich hatte damals schon die Zusagen mehrerer Partner, die mich dann aber haben hängen lassen.”
Google: “'I had at that time already the promises of several partners, which let me hang then however.”
My translation: “At that time I had commitments from several partners, who in the end hung me out to dry.”
It’s in the nuances!
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:Warren Mumpower said:[b]Warren,
Tony, I have no fears over what I've said. First, I did make it clear that it was [b]"my opinion".[/b] That, I'm entitled to...at least in the US. As far as "being hung out to dry", that is Mr. Schontag's words, not mine.Actuall y that’s how I translated Schöntags words.[/b]
“Ich hatte damals schon die Zusagen mehrerer Partner, die mich dann aber haben hängen lassen.”
Google: “'I had at that time already the promises of several partners, which let me hang then however.”
My translation: “At that time I had commitments from several partners, who in the end hung me out to dry.”
It’s in the nuances!
So, um, Ken, ah, you had something to say?
“At that time I had commitments from several partners, who in the end hung me out to dry.”
Ooooh okay- the Richters set up Scoentag with bad investors so that he would default on his commitment to buy EPL thus making it possible for them to bring in someone they know with more money and get the company back.
Gotta love conspiracy theories!
John Joseph Sauer said:
"At that time I had commitments from several partners, who in the end hung me out to dry."Ooooh okay- the Richters set up Scoentag with bad investors so that he would default on his commitment to buy EPL thus making it possible for them to bring in someone they know with more money and get the company back.
Gotta love conspiracy theories!
John is that a statement of fact?
If so, you are pretty game putting it on the record.
Do you have any proof?
Can any one tell me what the terms of the “creation”/sale of the North American Distribution rights for LGB to G45 were?
I’ve seen several posts that would infer that there were ‘shenanigans’ or a lack of compensation for the purported trademark and logo rights and exclusive distribution contract, but I don’t remember seeing any details on the contracts that would have created G45. (Which is often the case with closly held companies activities.)
I would think that if compensation was provided under contract to the Patentwerk management and it was included in the ongoing operations before and as part of bankruptcy assets, it will be hard for anyone to dispute that the deal is legitimate. Hinkey maybe, but probably legal.
You and they may crab and quibble about the amount of compensation, but until it goes to court…if it ever does no one will know if it was an appropriate amount, and even then it may only be a judgement for an additional amount, not a set aside of the existing contract.
Of course that may all be moot if LGB doesn’t come out of recievership.
Mark
John Joseph Sauer said:
"At that time I had commitments from several partners, who in the end hung me out to dry."Ooooh okay- the Richters set up Scoentag with bad investors so that he would default on his commitment to buy EPL thus making it possible for them to bring in someone they know with more money and get the company back.
Gotta love conspiracy theories!
But JJ,
No conspiracies, just copies of what the papers found fit to print and then my translations of those on the record publications.
It is interesting how some of the RBB seem to get exercised with each additional little bit that surfaces in this Saga. One could almost be led to believe that certain people have a stake in this Saga, it’s just not so clear what that stake is or could be.
Do you have any proof that the Richters were involved as per your outline? Or is that just what one of your “reliable sources” mentioned he/she heard on the grapevine while listening to the cornstalks grow?
Curmudgeon said:Dave,
So, um, Ken, ah, you had something to say?
Kenny just wanted to point out that it was my translation and my translation doesn’t correspond to the Google or Babelfish translations, which, while missing all the nuances - yeah, machines aren’t that smart! - are of course “more correct”. Consider the source!
“So it goes” (Kurt Vonnegut)
S-A-R-C-A-S-M
JJ
You wrote previously:
John Joseph Sauer said:
SNIP
Ooooh okay- the Richters set up Scoentag with bad investors so that he would default on his commitment to buy EPL thus making it possible for them to bring in someone they know with more money and get the company back.
SNIP
Well, do you have any proof to back up your quite serious allegations, or don’t you?
The following is not really an answer.
John Joseph Sauer said:
S-A-R-C-A-S-M
Tony, Remember when LGB had a real problem with the “infamous” Mikado? Well, apart from tying up precious resources in Nürnberg - that drive train was a real “humdinger” - the customers over here got testy enough that for a time LGBoA would ship out a boxcar with every Mikado that had been repaired under warranty and was being returned to the customer. I remember how super upset GURU was on MLS. I wonder if they still have free boxcars as rewards for services rendered i.e. for the RBB or comments refrained from for the rest of the gang. And a special cut of hoppers for the coal JJ will be getting for Christmas. :lol: :lol: JJ You really shouldn’t suggest things like that, you know how gullible people are, “they” may start to believe it. Next time ask for that special “Tongue in Cheek” smiley, I could send you a copy. Everyone should have one of those.
:lol:
JJ- as long as you fully understand your comments are viewed by viewers worldwide and taken by enough at face value to probably cause you a little consternation.
Don’t be too surprised.
Gawd, I love it when people do that.
If someone really believes what a bunch of old men say when sitting around slinging a bunch of bull, gets what they deserve…
They have a fundraiser in these parts…that’s a lot like the conversation on many forums. Take a fenced off area and mark it in squares. Then they place a cow in the fenced off area and place bets on what square the cow is going to plop in first. The person that comes closest to guessing which square is the winner. Sound familiar…
Warren Mumpower said:
If someone really believes what a bunch of old men say when sitting around slinging a bunch of bull, gets what they deserve…
It does in a way, but I’d sure hate to have a “LGB Ventilator” around for that competition. Would give new meaning to “the sh** hitting the fan”. :lol: :lol: Talk about an application of “freckles”.
LGB ventilator = source for natural gas.
Now I am curious –
Question was asked: How did LGB of America attain “independence” (I am guessing “independence” is accurate) from LGB of Germany. I believe LGB of Germany was seen as corporate over LGB of America prior to the formation of “G-45”.
Ok, if LGB of America actually bought from LGB of Germany itself as an independent company, how was that done? To make a division of a corporation into a separate entity means - at least here in the States - a definitive legal transaction with clearly defined definitions as to what manifests the “new” entity from the “older” entity. To me, that means the following would occur:
-
Any duplicative production of product either COULD be duplicative or COULD NOT be duplicative by agreement (incl. any previous defined patent rulings);
-
Any distribution rights of any produced product would be clearly defined to maintian the “new” entity’s identity and preserve the “older” corporation’s identity;
-
Any use of the “older” company’s trademark, patent, or slogan identity would only be by legal agreement, would it not?
IF the intent was for only one of the corporate entities to survive, then a clear definition would, I think, be required as to what are the current (that’s now) characteristics compared to the characteristics PRIOR to the purchase (?) by G-45. Included, I think, would be the intended characteristics agreed to at the time of G-45’s purhcase. My guess is the outcome of this process would be to argue that either the “company” is still ONE entity or the “company” is truly TWO separate companies.
Whew!
Am I on track as ready to understand how the initial “independence” of G-45 (LGB of America) occurred?
Thanks,
Wendell
Wendell-
Before somebody quotes you, add at least a dozen question marks to that…