Large Scale Central

LGB Repair time!

General Discussion
#441
Wendell Hanks said:
My posting re: The trademark LGB ownership is now in print (the back page of the 2008 PIKO catalogue) indicating LGB is owned by the German firm Marklin.

OK, Silvergate is the only recourse as they had no product to sell called “LGB” and they were no longer seen by even their major client, PIKO, as owning the trademark. What does anyone say to PIKO other than we have changed our name???

Wendell


Wendell,

There was never any doubt about the first one, at least not by those who followed the “whole shebang” very closely. The doubts were propagated by those who are still in de-nile and one of these days a croc will get them. No, it won’t be numbered 401 through 415! :smiley:

What I would say regarding PIKO; while it could have been possible to “guide and manipulate” Schöntag, that will not be the case with the Wilfers, not as long as water flows downhill. :wink: :slight_smile: :wink:

PS For all those who believe that PIKO will produce LS in China. Not if Dr René Wilfer is to be believed! :wink:

#442

Wendell,

John Joesph Sauer wrote>>

LGB of America does not distribute the LGB product line at the moment.
LGB of America apparently controls the distribution “rights” here in America for a few more years. I would have thought that if it was as “suspicious” as you say Marklin would have already challenged this claim- but I haven’t heard anything to this effect- have you?

This tells me no product until a deal is made…

#443

The St. Aubin’s Ad in the most recent GR indicates 2012 as when the rights expire. The ad doesn’t specify a source for that, so take it for informational purposes only. At this point, I think it’s safe to say Marklin and LGBoA/Silvergate aren’t going to play ball. As with all contract disputes, who’s responsible for the breakdown depends on which side you talk to. (Hint: it’s never “our” fault.) The truth sits somewhere in between.

So here’s a possible (very speculative) scenario…

Assumptions:

  1. Marklin has to take time to figure out how to work all this new material into their existing production lines, and/or needs time to expand facilities in order to accommodate the new product line.
  2. Marklin’s experience with the US market has been underwhelming to say the least.
  3. Marklin has a good grasp on how LGB’s market share in the US has been deteriorating over the past decade.
  4. Marklin’s sales strength lies in the EU.

Given those assumptions, it stands to reason that Marklin has decided that they can afford to wait things out while they get the rest of their ducks in a row. They don’t stand to make enough money in the US market, given the tap-dancing that may be required, so instead will focus on the more lucrative EU market where they already know the territory quite well. Three years isn’t a long time to wait in the grand scheme of things. The US market has not seen new LGB products in over 2 years, and there seems to be no tangible negative effect on the market. LGB is still being bought and sold on e-bay and through existing dealer stock. I can see this dwindling a bit over the next few years, but that creates scarcity. What better circumstances to return triumphantly to the table?

Is this a risky move for Marklin? Perhaps, but it’s a very calculated risk. The LGB brand doesn’t directly compete with Bachmann, Aristo, and the others. Folks who buy those brands left the “predominantly-LGB” fold years ago. LGB has always maintained its niche, and served it well. The closest brand that looks like it could tap into LGB’s niche is Piko. From what I’ve seen so far, they make a good product, but I don’t see them permanently stealing away customers. They’re too new to gain any kind of reputation in that short period of time, and is unlikely to have anywhere near the breadth of product as LGB is currently producing for the EU. If anything, the market will become less brand-centric, and both will do well. As we’ve seen expressed on these (and other) pages, LGB aficionados are incredibly loyal. When the products arrive back on the shelves in US hobby shops, the dollars will be there.

Unfortunately for current LGB owners, service gets lost in the shuffle, and that’s unfortunate. But hey, lack of parts isn’t a problem limited to bankrupt manufacturers. As many can attest, welcome to the club.

Later,

K

#444

Thanks to Kevin Strong for actually answering the question I posed!

#445

There are other assumptions.

  1. The current ownership doesn’t plan on being around in 2012, so they don’t have to address the “problem”.

Kingsbridge and other “grasshoppers” don’t usually plan on holding a “restructured property” as long as five years. The early management team was already discussing a public offering as early as this last June. That didn’t survive. I would guess that Kingsbridge will make a decision within two years as to taking the whole public or divest the individual properties. Only Dollars will decide the outcome.

Jack

#446
Jack Barton said:
There are other assumptions.
  1. The current ownership doesn’t plan on being around in 2012, so they don’t have to address the “problem”.

Kingsbridge and other “grasshoppers” don’t usually plan on holding a “restructured property” as long as five years. The early management team was already discussing a public offering as early as this last June. That didn’t survive. I would guess that Kingsbridge will make a decision within two years as to taking the whole public or divest the individual properties. Only Dollars will decide the outcome.

Jack


Really Jack? I thought they are addressing the problem right now.
Your assumptions sound much like what we got to listen to from Feb 07 through July 26th 07, when the G45/LGBoA propaganda machine was in full spin cycle with the Ventilators almost flying off their axis at the dizzying rotation. Small wonder they came up with such wing-ding schemes, eh? :smiley:

#447

Are you simply incapable of having an intelligent discussion with out resorting to infantile name calling? I know that you are not stupid, so this cartoon approach to the topic must meet some agenda of yours that we are not aware of. For over a year now all the "spin is coming from you.

#448
Jack Barton said:
Are you simply incapable of having an intelligent discussion with out resorting to infantile name calling? I know that you are not stupid, so this cartoon approach to the topic must meet some agenda of yours that we are not aware of. For over a year now all the "spin is coming from you.
Very nice try Jack. In case you smoke, sorry, no cigar!

BTW I came across a PDF containing the efforts of someone to make sense of the EPL insolvencies.

http://www.spur-g-news.de/images/diagramm.pdf

Sheds some additional light, sort of lets you see which strings are attached to what. As some of us mentioned a few times: what a web!

Oh, get your wife to help you with the decyphering. :wink: :slight_smile:

#449
Quote:
... 5. The current ownership doesn't plan on being around in 2012, so they don't have to address the "problem".
I thought about those rumors, but they really don't make a difference. The first part may or may not be true, but so what. The "problem" needs to be addressed before any sale can proceed. Not being able to distribute product in a particular market--no matter how calculated the risk--is a liability, and figures significantly against the value of a company.

The primary goal of most capitol/investment groups is to add maximum value to a property, then sell it for maximum profit. You can’t effectively do that by ignoring such a gaping hole in your distribution structure. The prospective buyers’ due diligence will see that one a mile away. The company my wife works for is owned by a similar capitol group. When they were sold a few years ago, there wasn’t an “i” or “t” whose dots and crosses weren’t tripple-checked. These groups do their homework.

Later,

K

#450
Kevin Strong said:
The primary goal of most capitol/investment groups is to add maximum value to a property, then sell it for maximum profit. You can't effectively do that by ignoring such a gaping hole in your distribution structure. The prospective buyers' due diligence will see that one a mile away. The company my wife works for is owned by a similar capitol group. When they were sold a few years ago, there wasn't an "i" or "t" whose dots and crosses weren't tripple-checked. These groups do their homework.

Later,

K


Kevin,

Precisely, those investment groups do that every time they acquire anything. It’s the buy low, sell extremely high modus. And from what I’ve observed in various segments of the economy, once they assemble a group that fits nicely into a segment - the present holdings of Gebr. Märklin are a good example - they have both the patience and the money to get the assembled group to their selling point. Break-up? Defeats the whole exercise. The whole is worth more than the sum of the parts.

#451

That’s not “someone”! Stefan Kühnlein is one of the really great guys in this world and a devout LGB fan. We have shared several wonderful meals with him. (You really should get out more.) He just emailed last week. BTW He’s also a Harley nut.
I love it when he states that he doesn’t assume any liability for any inaccurate information! I spotted one right off, there never was a link between LGB Depesche and the LGB Club of America, better know as the LGBMRRC.

You really should get with your Rabbi and work out some of these anger issues!

#452
Kevin Strong said:
[ The primary goal of most capitol/investment groups is to add maximum value to a property, then sell it for maximum profit. K
Quite true Kevin, but I would suspect there are some "punt" plays being considered since the mortgage capital debacle.
#453
Jack Barton said:
That's not "someone"! Stefan Kühnlein is one of the really great guys in this world and a devout LGB fan. We have shared several wonderful meals with him. (You really should get out more.) He just emailed last week. BTW He's also a Harley nut. I love it when he states that he doesn't assume any liability for any inaccurate information! I spotted one right off, there never was a link between LGB Depesche and the LGB Club of America, better know as the LGBMRRC.

You really should get with your Rabbi and work out some of these anger issues!


Jack,

Let me put it this way, Kühnlein is far from a household name for Northamericans. Those who know him will recognize the name, the others won’t worry about it.
As far as the LGB Club of America, remember the Club that EPL started shortly after “The Boys” disowned the LGBMRRC? That’s the Club he’s referring to, not the LGBMRRC. Best check with him first before you point out “errors”.

Anger issues??? Rabbi? :lol: :lol: You must have had some funny breakfast today. :lol: Or did the missus mess up the meds?

#454
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
As far as the LGB Club of America, remember the Club that EPL started shortly after "The Boys" disowned the LGBMRRC? That's the Club he's referring to, not the LGBMRRC. Best check with him first before you point out "errors".
Sorry, no bubble gum cigar! Never was an "LGB Club of America" after the support for the LGBMRRC was withdrawn, only the LGBCLUB. All memberships were held in Germany. Even the passwords for the English language forum were issued from Germany.

You seem to want to make a lot of other peoples names “household” words. Why would you want to leave Stefan out? I would guess that you couldn’t fake some “inside” knowledge of him and his motives like you do for so many others.

#455

If the info is right, 2012 is 3.5 years away… In that length of time a lot can happen… A lot of people can die… A lot of toys can break… IMHO does not bode well for Marklin… To use Hans-Joerg’s #'s of 20M Euro’s total sales, with a loss of 8M Euro’s from the North American market that is a lot to make-up… I wish Marklin luck…

#456
Jack Barton said:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
As far as the LGB Club of America, remember the Club that EPL started shortly after "The Boys" disowned the LGBMRRC? That's the Club he's referring to, not the LGBMRRC. Best check with him first before you point out "errors".
Sorry, no bubble gum cigar! Never was an "LGB Club of America" after the support for the LGBMRRC was withdrawn, only the LGBCLUB. All memberships were held in Germany. Even the passwords for the English language forum were issued from Germany.

You seem to want to make a lot of other peoples names “household” words. Why would you want to leave Stefan out? I would guess that you couldn’t fake some “inside” knowledge of him and his motives like you do for so many others.


Jack,

Anyone who is reasonably literate can see that “LGB Club Deutschland” and “LGB Club of America” are joined at the hip. Kühnlein obviously wanted to make the distinction. Who gives a fig what was hosted where, fact is both LGB Clubs were started in 2006 after LGBMMRC was disowned and forced to revert back to a different name. You can spin it at your usual rate or in overdrive, the facts won’t change! :smiley:

Besides, you know all that, just read the posts on your own forum where people are clamoring to know how to pay (interesting possibilities), how to sign up or how to renew. :smiley: :lol:

No, I don’t know Stefan Kühnlein, other than what I read on their website. OTOH if he should be one of your “reliable sources” I’m obviously not missing out on much. Does he wear a LGB Shirt to go with his LGB hat and does he have LGB glasses, too??

#457

Bob,

And no one has told me if it is “till” or “thru” 2012.

Jack

#458
Bob Burton said:
If the info is right, 2012 is 3.5 years away.. In that length of time a lot can happen.. A lot of people can die.. A lot of toys can break.. IMHO does not bode well for Marklin.. To use Hans-Joerg's #'s of 20M Euro's total sales, with a loss of 8M Euro's from the North American market that is a lot to make-up.. I wish Marklin luck..
Bob,

I wouldn’t worry about how LGB® Märklin meet their sales targets, with or without the NA market. :wink:

Logic would have it that Märklin was going to deliver at a set price, with set terms of payment i.e. product for a “special” market would be treated in a similar manner as special runs for XYZ distributor or dealer. From what I’ve learned from dealers that would be min. quantities of 500 and a substantial down payment or money up front.
That way LGB® Märklin would not be carrying the can for LGBoA. If LGBoA saw fit to sell at fire sale prices, hey more power to them, LGB® Märklin wouldn’t care.:slight_smile:

#459
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
If LGBoA saw fit to sell at fire sale prices, hey more power to them, LGB® Märklin wouldn't care.:)
Nor did Lehmann before them!
#460
Jack Barton said:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
If LGBoA saw fit to sell at fire sale prices, hey more power to them, LGB® Märklin wouldn't care.:)
Nor did Lehmann before them!
Would that be before or after Rolf Richter cited among the reasons for the "Sale"/"Transfer" of LGBoA the potential for losses?
RR said:
.............. Auch wurde die verlustträchtige amerikanische Tochtergesellschaft LGB of America ........
"verlustträchtig" translates as "loss incurring". Remember that's what caught my eye in the first place: the discrepancies between the German and the English announcement. It has been quite educational ever since! :D

BTW what are the possibilities that Märklin arrives at a service agreement with someone to cover that aspect in NA? :confused: