Large Scale Central

LGB Repair time!

John Joseph Sauer said:
............................

It’s your opinion and your welcome to it- but that doesn’t make it the truth!
There are always 2 sides to every negotiation. Blind loyalty can go both ways as does blind hatred.


Marvin,

Absolutely and that leaves us with your profoundly well researched, factual reporting of all things that concern either the old EPL, the old LGBoA or the new Silvergate … that’s it, isn’t it? Good thing I have kept all your “reports”, they make for “enlightening” reading. :lol: :lol: Compare those with what actually happened and is still happening … makes for the best laughs! :wink: :slight_smile: :wink:

I thot innuendo was an Italian suppository, still what do I know… ?

Rod,

That’s possible … however best wait til next week and perhaps it will be revealed. All depends on how the Italians are doing at EM2008 (3:0 for the Dutch! Whoa!!) ;D :wink:

John Joseph Sauer said:
PJ said:
Ray Dunakin said:
Um, you're not getting LGB service or parts anymore because LGB no longer exists. It went bankrupt, remember? The assets now belong to Marklin. Even if LGBoA _wanted_ to provide service for Marklin's products, there is no way they could do so without parts, and Marklin has chosen not to make those parts available (at least, not through LGBoA).

That’s how I see the situation. Please correct me if I have misunderstood something.


Hi Ray,
Partially you are right, LGB Germany went bankrupt and got bought by Maerklin. But LGB Germany still exists, Maerklin/LGB just started to sell new products in Europe. In a German forum there is right now a big discussion about the new LGB/Maerklin items which are now available. Everything is the same with the exception that the name “Lehman” was removed on all items.

It is a fact that Maerklin and LGB-of-America have not a deal as of today, and i am sure you can image why it is so. And i am sure you can image that Maerklin is not doing business with LGB-of-America, because Maerklin is not interested to support LGB-of-America, to strengthen their position. I could image that Maerklin would love to see LGBoa going bankrupt, it is easier to buy a firm who has no money left . Be sure Maerklin would love to get back in the huge American market, but since LGB-of-America has the sole right to import and distribute any LGB items, it is not possible for Maerklin to do so. Mean while we are left with out any support, and prices go constant up, and all the American large scale fan have to pay the price.

You can turn it and look at it as you like, the fact still remains that LGB-of-America is the main road block, is the reason why we sit without any new LGB parts.
It would be worth a whole new discussion to learn again how LGB-of-America acquired the distribution rights, just shortly before LGB Germany went down. Legaly it might was correct, but judging with your heart, you might see it different. here again you can turn it and look at it how ever you like, if LGBoa is receiving any money from Maerklin, we all the end user have to pay it in the long run.
Another interesting topic would be to learn why LGB-of-America is not sold as of today, surely not because they asking for a to low price.
Another great discussion would be to learn more about the real reason why LGBoa changed the name to Silvergate, because from a business point of view it makes zero sense. I guess now some folks could stop any inquiries by replaying that LGB-of-America is not longer present.
For my self, the whole situation just gives me a bad taste, i know it is just business and politics as usual. To many different parties are involved, to many different interests are present, and everyone tries to make as much money as possible. To bad that folks always try to make money instead of earning money. And what i dislike most is that meanwhile we as the customers have to deal with steady increasing prices.

I know that with my posting, i expose my self a bit. There are still a bunch of blind LGB-of-America followers, folks which are blind in love with LGBoa.

think global PJ


It’s your opinion and your welcome to it- but that doesn’t make it the truth!
There are always 2 sides to every negotiation. Blind loyalty can go both ways as does blind hatred.

Hi John Joseph,
hey thanks for your input, but i miss a bit any argument which is backed by actual facts, i miss any real argument which would eliminate any of the ones i made. Since i am a extreme open minded person, i relay would like to here if i am wrong, i would prefer facts which proof that any of my statements is wrong.
by the way you are partially right, in each negotiation there are two sides, but there is only one truth.

think global and regards Pius

PJ said:
John Joseph Sauer said:
PJ said:
Hi Ray, Partially you are right, LGB Germany went bankrupt and got bought by Maerklin. But LGB Germany still exists, Maerklin/LGB just started to sell new products in Europe. In a German forum there is right now a big discussion about the new LGB/Maerklin items which are now available. Everything is the same with the exception that the name "Lehman" was removed on all items.

It is a fact that Maerklin and LGB-of-America have not a deal as of today, and i am sure you can image why it is so. And i am sure you can image that Maerklin is not doing business with LGB-of-America, because Maerklin is not interested to support LGB-of-America, to strengthen their position. I could image that Maerklin would love to see LGBoa going bankrupt, it is easier to buy a firm who has no money left . Be sure Maerklin would love to get back in the huge American market, but since LGB-of-America has the sole right to import and distribute any LGB items, it is not possible for Maerklin to do so. Mean while we are left with out any support, and prices go constant up, and all the American large scale fan have to pay the price.

You can turn it and look at it as you like, the fact still remains that LGB-of-America is the main road block, is the reason why we sit without any new LGB parts.
It would be worth a whole new discussion to learn again how LGB-of-America acquired the distribution rights, just shortly before LGB Germany went down. Legaly it might was correct, but judging with your heart, you might see it different. here again you can turn it and look at it how ever you like, if LGBoa is receiving any money from Maerklin, we all the end user have to pay it in the long run.
Another interesting topic would be to learn why LGB-of-America is not sold as of today, surely not because they asking for a to low price.
Another great discussion would be to learn more about the real reason why LGBoa changed the name to Silvergate, because from a business point of view it makes zero sense. I guess now some folks could stop any inquiries by replaying that LGB-of-America is not longer present.
For my self, the whole situation just gives me a bad taste, i know it is just business and politics as usual. To many different parties are involved, to many different interests are present, and everyone tries to make as much money as possible. To bad that folks always try to make money instead of earning money. And what i dislike most is that meanwhile we as the customers have to deal with steady increasing prices.

I know that with my posting, i expose my self a bit. There are still a bunch of blind LGB-of-America followers, folks which are blind in love with LGBoa.

think global PJ


It’s your opinion and your welcome to it- but that doesn’t make it the truth!
There are always 2 sides to every negotiation. Blind loyalty can go both ways as does blind hatred.

Hi John Joseph,
hey thanks for your input, but i miss a bit any argument which is backed by actual facts, i miss any real argument which would eliminate any of the ones i made. Since i am a extreme open minded person, i relay would like to here if i am wrong, i would prefer facts which proof that any of my statements is wrong.
by the way you are partially right, in each negotiation there are two sides, but there is only one truth.

think global and regards Pius


Don’t take this the wronge way but I don’t see any “facts” or “truths” amongst your ramblings. You opinions are the same as everyone elses- just opinions!

John Joseph Sauer said:
PJ said:
John Joseph Sauer said:
It's your opinion and your welcome to it- but that doesn't make it the truth! There are always 2 sides to every negotiation. Blind loyalty can go both ways as does blind hatred.
Hi John Joseph, hey thanks for your input, but i miss a bit any argument which is backed by actual facts, i miss any real argument which would eliminate any of the ones i made. Since i am a extreme open minded person, i relay would like to here if i am wrong, i would prefer facts which proof that any of my statements is wrong. by the way you are partially right, in each negotiation there are two sides, but there is only one truth.

think global and regards Pius


Don’t take this the wronge way but I don’t see any “facts” or “truths” amongst your ramblings. You opinions are the same as everyone elses- just opinions!

hey John Joseph,
sorry do not take this personal, but you still missed to tell me which of my statements, if any, is wrong. reading your comment gives me the feeling that you judge the whole thing just using your gut feeling. nothing against your way to judge things, but facts are way better arguments.

since you did not find any facts in my posting, i like to help you a bit with that.
it is a fact that LGBoa is not sold as of today.
it is a fact that LGB is not selling the name under value
it is a fact that parts and service for LGB items in USA are getting short.
it is a fact that LGBoa owns the distribution rights to the LGB name
it is a fact that the Brand name LGBoa is still owned by someone
it is a fact that no one else can import any LGB items to the USA
it is a fact that LGB/ Maerklin is selling new LGB items
it is a fact that LGBoa changed the name to Silvergate
it is a fact that LGBoa, mentioned in teir open letter that some inquiries have to be passed on to maerklin

john, i guess i could go on to list way more facts, but i guess you still would not like to here or see them, i wish you luck and think global pius
it is a fact that prices for LGB items tend to rise fast

PJ.

I have no qualms with pretty much all of your facts.

However, your statement “it is a fact that LGBoa owns the distribution rights to the LGB name” may or may not be a fact.

Just because someone says they have the rights to something doesn’t mean they actually do given the somewhat dubious circumstances during which “transfer” of sovereignty of those rights were made, just before the German bestower of those rights went bankrupt.
As I understand it that matter is still under investigation in Germany.

Anyway, why would Maerklin bother challenging the USA claimant to those rights in court when it would be far simpler and cheaper to starve them out by denying supply?
Especially as Maerklin have nothing to offer the USA market anyway.
Who knows, the outcome might be decided by a German court anyway.

Pius,
it is a fact that past manufacturing history has shown that when a toy train company has been purchased, whether outright, or as part of an insolvency/bankruptcy scenario and the production base has shifted to a new location, then one could expect a temporary lapse in production for up to two years. Marklin was required to provide new production tooling, new factory location and train its workforce and all this takes time. The production schedule for 2008 is devoid of American outline and concentrates on those items that have always been popular with the European market and production limitations are aimed at maximising financial return, in the short term, by way of guaranteed sales.

   Remember,  that North America is not the only LGB market outside of Europe and that other markets are receiving product.  You keep blaming LGBoA as the reason that the product is not available in the United States and yet those who really want the product have little trouble getting it in Europe and shipped to the States.  It seems though that you want things the way they used to be with a top quality distributor of the product and a well respected central service department to handle any problems that you may have.  Unfortunately or not,  LGBoA does not exist anymore in the capacity it once did.  If product is not available then one needs to await the time until Gyor (and China) are in full production.

  I do not believe that LGBoA actually has worldwide distribution rights to the brandname,  as evidenced by countries outside USA having no problem negotiating distribution deals with Marklin.  Marklin's production is still ramping up and there is generally insufficient production to satisfy current world demand.  The product currently produced in Gyor has little actual appeal to the North American market,  with reported non-American outline modellors in the States,  accounting for around 12% of actual LGB purchases.

  I have a strong personal opinion on this topic and it is not in LGBoA's favour.   An immoral action happened back in 2006 that hastened the collapse of the parent company.  I saw no financial benefit to the parent company in severing connection with its sibling in the United States,  particularly coming so soon after it had supplied so much product to the company for distribution.  LGBoA was in a position to help Schontag in raising capital to restructure the failed parent company,  but chose to sit on the sideline awaiting an outcome more to their liking, i.e., total control of assets.  Their decision came back to bite them,  leading to the failure of LGBoA as well. 
 
  If anything is holding up distribution of the product in the United States then it is Marklin's current inability to supply its base domestic market in Europe.  I do not believe that LGBoA is the stumbling block and is nothing more than a lame duck company,  causing conflict with its current distribution deals with Piko.  The decision was made that the company needed to be 'retired' to enable growth of the current 'renamed' distributor.  Was it a wise financial arrangement to cease operating LGBoA as a 'viable' company if it actually does contain the assets that you seem to think it has?
TonyWalsham said:
PJ.

I have no qualms with pretty much all of your facts.

However, your statement “it is a fact that LGBoa owns the distribution rights to the LGB name” may or may not be a fact.

Just because someone says they have the rights to something doesn’t mean they actually do given the somewhat dubious circumstances during which “transfer” of sovereignty of those rights were made, just before the German bestower of those rights went bankrupt.
As I understand it that matter is still under investigation in Germany.


The wheels of German Justice turn slowly but surely. :slight_smile:

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
TonyWalsham said:
PJ.

I have no qualms with pretty much all of your facts.

However, your statement “it is a fact that LGBoa owns the distribution rights to the LGB name” may or may not be a fact.

Just because someone says they have the rights to something doesn’t mean they actually do given the somewhat dubious circumstances during which “transfer” of sovereignty of those rights were made, just before the German bestower of those rights went bankrupt.
As I understand it that matter is still under investigation in Germany.


The wheels of German Justice turn slowly but surely. :slight_smile:

German courts surly work slow, but in the end they have no right to judge about anything outside of Germany, unless there are specific contracts with the USA.

think global Pius

PJ said:
....................

German courts surly work slow, but in the end they have no right to judge about anything outside of Germany, unless there are specific contracts with the USA.

think global Pius


Pius,

Who said anything about outside of Germany?

You need to polish up on the “nitty-gritty” of what went on, the broad brush strokes won’t cover that. This is all about oHG, subsidiaries and German insolvency law. Happy reading! :wink: :slight_smile:

Tim Brien said:
Pius, it is a fact that past manufacturing history has shown that when a toy train company has been purchased, whether outright, or as part of an insolvency/bankruptcy scenario and the production base has shifted to a new location, then one could expect a temporary lapse in production for up to two years. Marklin was required to provide new production tooling, new factory location and train its workforce and all this takes time. The production schedule for 2008 is devoid of American outline and concentrates on those items that have always been popular with the European market and production limitations are aimed at maximising financial return, in the short term, by way of guaranteed sales.

PJ: hey Tim, it is a fact that Maerklin/LGB has several production centers already in place, including a quality control. Reading in German forums, i here that new products are available, and there are different small quality issues, but as we know German workmanship it is just a matter of time until those are solved.

   Remember,  that North America is not the only LGB market outside of Europe and that other markets are receiving product.  You keep blaming LGBoA as the reason that the product is not available in the United States and yet those who really want the product have little trouble getting it in Europe and shipped to the States.  It seems though that you want things the way they used to be with a top quality distributor of the product and a well respected central service department to handle any problems that you may have.  Unfortunately or not,  LGBoA does not exist anymore in the capacity it once did.  If product is not available then one needs to await the time until Gyor (and China) are in full production.

PJ: you are right, as a private person you can import LGB items, but as a large vendor this is a different ball game. count on it the owner of LGBoa would not tolerate such imports, it would direct undermine the asking price for the distribution rights in north America.

  I do not believe that LGBoA actually has worldwide distribution rights to the brandname,  as evidenced by countries outside USA having no problem negotiating distribution deals with Marklin.  Marklin's production is still ramping up and there is generally insufficient production to satisfy current world demand.  The product currently produced in Gyor has little actual appeal to the North American market,  with reported non-American outline modellors in the States,  accounting for around 12% of actual LGB purchases.

PJ; you are right, Laws tend to be quite territorial, i guess therefore LGBOA just owns the distribution rights for north America. I do not know where you got your information about purchasing amounts, 12% of total sold items for the USA, seem rather low. By the way, if i would be Maerklin/LGB, i would do the same thing, i would produce items which appeal to the European customer, because in the moment there is no American market.

  I have a strong personal opinion on this topic and it is not in LGBoA's favour.   An immoral action happened back in 2006 that hastened the collapse of the parent company.  I saw no financial benefit to the parent company in severing connection with its sibling in the United States,  particularly coming so soon after it had supplied so much product to the company for distribution.  LGBoA was in a position to help Schontag in raising capital to restructure the failed parent company,  but chose to sit on the sideline awaiting an outcome more to their liking, i.e., total control of assets.  Their decision came back to bite them,  leading to the failure of LGBoA as well. 

PJ: changing the name from LGBoa to Silvergate I see already that the bite is working its way.

  If anything is holding up distribution of the product in the United States then it is Marklin's current inability to supply its base domestic market in Europe.  I do not believe that LGBoA is the stumbling block and is nothing more than a lame duck company,  causing conflict with its current distribution deals with Piko.  The decision was made that the company needed to be 'retired' to enable growth of the current 'renamed' distributor.  Was it a wise financial arrangement to cease operating LGBoA as a 'viable' company if it actually does contain the assets that you seem to think it has?</blockquote>

PJ: Hey Tim, be aware that designing and producing the mold for a new product is the most time consuming and most expensive part. LGB/Maerklin is ramping up production with existing molds. Assembling a Engine does not take that much time, i am sure you can image that one employee can assemble several engines a day. How ever , i love the idea that Maerklin/LGB is picking up the production, in the end i love the idea that someone with a big experience and SOME money is working on it.

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
PJ said:
....................

German courts surly work slow, but in the end they have no right to judge about anything outside of Germany, unless there are specific contracts with the USA.

think global Pius


Pius,

Who said anything about outside of Germany?

You need to polish up on the “nitty-gritty” of what went on, the broad brush strokes won’t cover that. This is all about oHG, subsidiaries and German insolvency law. Happy reading! :wink: :slight_smile:


Hi HJ,
It is not that easy to buy and sell an existing product with a brand name, lots of contracts are needed, here a few samples. Think global Pius

Topic: Starting a Small Business http://en.allexperts.com/q/Starting-Small-Business-1637/Wholesale-1.htm

Expert: kemper
Date: 3/7/2004
Subject: Wholesale

Question
Hello, i am actually interested in a good wholesaler of mobile phones because i am looking at starting up a online small business. Please write back to me and tell me if you know of any. I realise this may be outside the realm of your expertise. Thank you for your time…
Answer:

finding “inventory” to sell in a store sounds easy.
IT in fact is often not only not easy but impossible.
IT is such because of the laws of franchise rights,
distribution rights, etc.

IT is possible that the maker of your phones
or one or more distributors might have legal
TERRITORY franchise rights.

for now, call the makers of what u want to sell and
ask if they have any DISTRIBUTION RIGHTS for your
area of intended sales.

get back to me.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Distribution-Products-2127/Distribution-rights.htm
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Distribution-Products-2127/importing-wine-1.htm

Pius,

I’m aware of the pit falls, but that “German situation” falls into a whole different category. :wink: :slight_smile:

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Pius,

I’m aware of the pit falls, but that “German situation” falls into a whole different category. :wink: :slight_smile:


Hey HJ,
pleas could you enplane a bit more detailed what you mean with “Different Category”. I am always open to learn new things>

think global Pius

Pius,

I suggest you sort out the following first:

Was LGBoA sold or transferred?

What was the date of the transaction?

HJ.

To which could be added:

Did any money change hands?
If so how much?
Followed by, where did the money come from?
What happened to said money?

To which could also be added:

Is it really any of your business ?
And
Why are you jackals so obsessed with it?

Just wait until next week for the next episode.

Face it- it’s over- everyone else has including LGB of America! You guys seem to be the only ones who are hanging onto it and beating it into the ground.