Large Scale Central

LGB of America wholesale Toys and Hobby Goods...now?

General Discussion
#61
Steve Featherkile said:
For track power, I use an Aristo Ultima that provides 10 amps. They recommend a 10 amp fast blow fuse to protect the locomotives in the case of a derailment. I've gone them one better and use a 2 or 3 amp fast blow fuse when I am running the smaller stuff, and a 6 amp fast blow fuse when running the Aristo and USA stuff. I haven't fried any locomotives, yet. SteveF
I remember a throttle review in Model Railroader, so long ago now that it may have been written by Linn Westcott, where he said that a light bulb in series with the outpout was "a good choice for a transister throttle". Of course, that may no longer apply, given the amount of "stuff" that inhabits the innards of modern locomotives.

I plan to operate at 12 volts max and it occurred to me that I could install a rotary switch in the throttle (or nearby) which would redirect the output through different wattages of lightbulbs, depending on the max. current desired. Fortunately, the automotive inductry offers lots of different wattage 12V bulbs. I can’t speak to the availability of 18V bulbs.

Just a thought.

#62

Kevin,

Not sure where you went with your last on this topic. Of course, that could be because I really do not understand electricity. Can you run it by again, just a bit slower?

#63
Steve Featherkile said:
Kevin,

Not sure where you went with your last on this topic. Of course, that could be because I really do not understand electricity. Can you run it by again, just a bit slower?


Sheesh Steve,

Kevin plans to have different wattage 12V automotive bulbs built into his throttle along with a rotary switch to select which bulb is in the circuit for which engine.
If nothing else it will be an interesting looking gizmo. :wink: OK OK it has been a slow day!

I can understand why you’re switching to battery power, that’s as simple as it gets. At least for the source. :smiley: :wink: :smiley:

#64

Or, do away with throttles altogether, and just have a bunch of light bulbs across the output.
Everytime you screw on in, you load it more.

Train sim on ops.
Ah, yes.

I can see Gates and Co. doing that.

Sorry, we have encountered a problem and must now close. If you have trains and crew on the railroad, we will automatically contact their electronic next-of-kin.

I wonder if they can factor in variables like 1730 neighbor turning sprinklers onto 4% grade?

#65

I saw and episode of “I Love Toy Trains,” where this guy in Portland, OR, had an old Ives set that plugged directly into the wall. There was no AC transformer, just some electric lights in the circuit that he screwed into their sockets to control train speed. The more lights that were on, the slower the train ran.

Is this the same thing?

I told you I was electrically challenged.

A couple of “D” cells, and bada bing, bada boom! The train goes!

#66

A popular method of control for DC trains many years ago was a car battery and a rheostat.

#67
Steve Featherkile said:
I saw and episode of "I Love Toy Trains," where this guy in Portland, OR, had an old Ives set that plugged directly into the wall. There was no AC transformer, just some electric lights in the circuit that he screwed into their sockets to control train speed. The more lights that were on, the slower the train ran.

Is this the same thing?

I told you I was electrically challenged.

A couple of “D” cells, and bada bing, bada boom! The train goes!


Same thing.
Remember Marn-O-Stat?

#68
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Steve Featherkile said:
Kevin,

Not sure where you went with your last on this topic. Of course, that could be because I really do not understand electricity. Can you run it by again, just a bit slower?


Sheesh Steve,

Kevin plans to have different wattage 12V automotive bulbs built into his throttle along with a rotary switch to select which bulb is in the circuit for which engine.
If nothing else it will be an interesting looking gizmo. :wink: OK OK it has been a slow day!


Yeah. What he said. But some more detail if you’re interested.

Anywhere between the throttle and the track (it doesn’t have to be physically in the throttle) you could install a rotary switch with, say, 8 positions. If operating at 12V, position 1 would be 1Amp max. using a 12Watt bulb. Position 2 could be 1.5A with an 18Watt bulb. 2amps would require a 24Watt bulb (an automotive brake light might be correct). Etc. 10 amps would need a whopping 120Watt bulb but you could get that with several smaller bulbs in parallel.

I have no idea what this would do to a DCC decoder. I can’t see that it would have any effect, but I can’t say for sure.

The beauty of this is that with fuses, each short circuit costs you a buck. Electro-mechanical circuit breakers are too slow. This technique, which is common in small scale controllers, gives good protection and the glowing light bulb tells you you’ve got a short or that your loco needs a bit more amperage. You could substitute resistors for light bulbs but then you wouldn’t get the visual indication of trouble.

I’d draw up a circuit and post it but I have no way to post it here (I’m too cheap to pay the $20).

#69
Kevin Morris said:
it occurred to me that I could install a rotary switch in the throttle (or nearby) which would redirect the output through different wattages of lightbulbs, depending on the max. current desired.
Deep in the mists of time, I recall a Maerklin catalog that had some illustrations of the company's earliest electric trains. The controller was a series of lightbulbs with a rotary switch that varied the number of bulbs in the circuit. No transformer: it was mains power. Don't think the safety authorities would approve of such devices these days.
#70
Chris Vernell said:
Kevin Morris said:
it occurred to me that I could install a rotary switch in the throttle (or nearby) which would redirect the output through different wattages of lightbulbs, depending on the max. current desired.
Deep in the mists of time, I recall a Maerklin catalog that had some illustrations of the company's earliest electric trains. The controller was a series of lightbulbs with a rotary switch that varied the number of bulbs in the circuit. No transformer: it was mains power. Don't think the safety authorities would approve of such devices these days.
I gave some thought to something similar: an 8 notch throttle for diesels. This could replace the potentiometer usually used as the speed contoller. I dismissed the idea on the basis that each different model would require different resistance values, as well as that it was unnecessarily complicated compared to a simple pot. Nevertheless, it would actually work.
#71

After years and years of progress, we seem to be talking about going backwards, egads…I’m so tight that I hate to buy bum wad, but this idea of going backwards with controls from the 30’s and beyond to save a few bucks, is beyond reason…egads, the R/C throttles and batteries, of today, are so much better than light bulbs and track power.

Instead of trying to see how many locomotives you can buy; why not try putting your money into the best control possible, of one good locomotive; and see how much fun it is to have a great operating loco.
Put some money into rolling stock, and operate a train.

Oh there I go again…preaching to the masses…with no hope of any understanding…!!!

You guys are more than welcome, and free to do whatever you care to, for whatever reason you want to do it for…but lets enjoy the great technology available, and not go back to ways that have been proven to be outdated, and crude.
The whole idea is to operate a locomotive, in a smooth and lifelike manner. These old ideas were left behind because the newer ways do it so much better.

All the old timers of the early postwar years were constantly looking for better ways to do things. Why throw away all the progress they made for us ? New ways of contolling locomotives will constantly be found, with improvements we all dream of, by people who look to future developments in technology. That’s why today we can operate a locomotive from a wireless throttle, at a price lower than anything dreamed of 20 years ago.

It's like you guys want to reinvent an old wooden wheel and put a used,

and abused iron tire on it.

BUT…have fun, and I’m willing to stand aside and watch the fun. I’ll even buy you guys a bheer, to help you through your challenges. I’ll even cheer on your successes.

Fr.Fred

#72

Hey, why not?
Heck, my vacuum-tube radios and dial phones might be worth a bunch!

I think, tho, I’ll just stick a 5" plate selenium rectumfrier on my Lionel ZW.

#73
Fred Mills said:
It's like you guys want to reinvent an old wooden wheel and put a used, and abused iron tire on it.

Fr.Fred


I’m guessing you have contempt for people who restore vintage cars, build wooden boats, fly gliders and hot air ballons, play acoustic guitars, drink vintage wine, love steam locomotives, use sail boats, build mud brick houses, use an axe rather than a chainsaw, use a chisel rather than a laser cutter, walk rather than fly, and, God forbid, think outside the box.

I don’t feel the need to seek your permission to explore any and all aspects of this hobby. If you want to use battery/rc then do it. If I want to use a mouse/treadmill generator with satanic track power then I’ll do it. If you have any constructive suggestions on how to get the mouse to run faster, then I’d be ready to listen. But if all you have to offer is an attempt to stifle discussion that doesn’t conform to your view of a perfect world, then you might consider keeping it to yourself.

#74

Well there you are dear padre, you have been told.

So pay attention!!!

#75
Steve Featherkile said:
I saw and episode of "I Love Toy Trains," where this guy in Portland, OR, had an old Ives set that plugged directly into the wall. There was no AC transformer, just some electric lights in the circuit that he screwed into their sockets to control train speed. The more lights that were on, the slower the train ran.

Is this the same thing?

I told you I was electrically challenged.

A couple of “D” cells, and bada bing, bada boom! The train goes!


Not the same thing. What I was talking about was a circuit to provide overload and short circuit protection on the output side of a commercial (or home made) throttle. It would be like having a 10 Amp throttle and a group of switches to chose from a number of different fuses. You could chose to limit the output current to 1 Amp, or 2 Amps, or 10 Amps, or any other value you consider necessary. (I’d probably go with 1, 2, 5 and 10 Amps).

As for being electrically challenged, would you believe that the main factor in my decision to become an electrician was to learn how to wire up my TriAng-Hornby train set. That decision turned out to be less than ideal but at least I learned why reverse loops didn’t seem to work.

#76

Fred,
for one hundred years (since the 1880’s) trade unions, in Australia, have fought against employers to improve the rights for workers, with favourable working conditions and eventually an eight-hour day. Go back one hundred years to 1996 and the present day Liberal (read pro-capitalist, lick an employer’s posterior regions) government has successfully taken the country back to pre-trade union work conditions with employees giving up award conditions like weekend shift penalty rates, public holiday penalty rates, overtime award conditions and even annual leave rights to gain an incredible $0.49 cents per hour. Security of employment has further taken a tumble with employee loyalty a complete waste of effort as employers are renowned for sacking workers for unjust reasons.

The whole country is going backwards, so why not methods of electrical power control. Gee, it worked then, why would it not work now - yeah right!!!

#77

Gone…

#78

My grandson told me why reverse loops don’t work. He said, “Paw-paw, the magic just doesn’t work that way.”

Ahhhh, youth, to be so certain, again.

madwolf

#79
Steve Featherkile said:
My grandson told me why reverse loops don't work. He said, "Paw-paw, the magic just doesn't work that way."

Ahhhh, youth, to be so certain, again.

madwolf


I had a college instructor who offered a similar explanation when I asked what a dpdt switch was. However, he was very entertaining and let us smoke in class.

#80
Fred Mills said:
Gone...
Don't go. Your opinion is welcome. Just like everyone else's.