Large Scale Central

LGB of America wholesale Toys and Hobby Goods...now?

General Discussion
#1

I find the LGB story fascinating, compelling, and certainly more than any other ongoing mystery in this hobby.

To my surprise:

  1. The LGBof America website is void of its previous emphasis on LGB trains;
  2. Other references to LGB of America – e.g. as a company – took me to IQ Toys and to Manta, Inc.'s listing of LGB of America as a corporation (www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany-qlxc9g) and here are (to me) surprising responses to the following statements on the Manta site re: LGB of America:

Also does business as: Lehmann
SIC: Toys and Hobby Goods and Supplies
Line of Business: Wholesale Toys/Hobby goods
Speciality Toys and Games: Find unique toys, dolls, puzzles and games for kids of all ages.
Puzzles and Games: Fun, educational puzzles and games for all adults and kids.
Detailed LGB of America Inc. Company Profile: this company profile is for the private company of LGB of America Inc., headquarters located in San Diego, CA. Lehmann’s line of business is wholesale toys/hobby goods.
State of Corporation: N/A
Stock Symbol: N/A
Contact Name: Johhannes Richter
Contact Title: Co President

(noted is the above data from D&B)

My comment:
Huh? Mr. Richter is a co-president with whom? To lift a slogan: “Where’s the trains?”

Any further information to add to the LGB puzzle?

Wendell

#2

I believe the information you have is outdated. That should reflect the company prior to it’s sale of LGBoA to G45 and the bankruptcy.

#3

Warren-
At risk of my memory not working, my recollection is prior to the G45 announcement, I was on the LGB of America site and it had the full LGB logo, listing of products, etc. The focus was clearly trains.

Perhaps others may have more information.

However, the purpose of the posting was to garner some more insight as to the status of the corporate or non-corporate holdings. IF, I say “if”, this website now represents the outcome of Marklin’s purchase, LGB of America is now removed from the LGB train distribution charge venturing as a wholesale toy distributor.

Is this a reasonable conclusion? If so, and accurate, what now with LGB as a international corporation that makes or does not make large scale trains?

Wendell

#4

Wendell, I think you need to wait until after the two “travellers” get back from their German sojourn and tell us who/what they do or do not represent.

Won’t be long now.

#5

Wendell,

Best to wait for the first ads that Märklin will run in the NA hobby press.

My guess is that it will somehow read like this somewhere at the bottom

LGB - Ernst Paul Lehmann Patentwerk
a division of Märklin Holding GmbH

There is an interview with Axel Dietz, CEO of Märklin in the next GARTENBAHNprofi, a snippet from it reads like this

GBp said:
... [10.08.2007] "Für den Kunden wird sich bis auf die neue Adresse in Nürnberg nichts ändern. Auch wenn Trix und LGB künftig an einem gemeinsamen neuen Standort zu finden sein werden: Unter dem Dach der Märklin Holding wird LGB sein eigenständiges Erscheinungsbild behalten." Das äußerten der Vorsitzende der Märklin Geschäftsführung, Axel Dietz, und LGB-Projektleiter Günter Kopp in einem Interview gegenüber GBP-Chefredakteur Hans-Joachim Gilbert. Märklin bemüht sich derzeit darum, dass im ehemaligen Lehmann-Werk an der Saganer Straße lagernde Fertigprodukte alsbald an den Fachhandel geliefert werden können. Ansonsten bereitet man den Umzug der Produktion vor, wobei auch das ungarische Märklin-Werk Györ künftig Produkte unter dem Markennamen LGB herstellen wird. .................
HJ translates:
HJ translates said:
"For the consumer there will be no difference, other than the new address in Nürnberg. Even when Trix and LGB will in future be located at a new common location: LGB will keep its own image under the umbrella of Märklin Holding." That statement from CEO Axel Dietz and LGB project manager Günter Kopp in an interview with GBP editor Hans-Joachim Gilbert. Märklin is presently making an effort to deliver, as soon as possible, finished products from Saganer Strasse to the dealers. Other than that one is getting ready to move the production, which means that Märklin's plant in Györ, Hungary will in future also produce LGB products. ..................
Apart from that ............... oh yeah, I guess we are still waiting for a press release from G45/LGBoA. ;) :) ;)
#6

Wendell:

As Warren suggested, you have found a totally outdated link. Stuff like this gets posted on the internet and can remain for years, as no one is in charge of finding when there is (or should be) new information to post. This is an example why one should not always rely on the internet for the best news. I always demand that pages created for my ventures and enterprises contain a statement like “Last updated dd/mm/yy” or similar.

When I last dealt with D&B a couple of years ago, they sent out a yearly survey to listed companies. If you didn’t return the survey, the previous information just remained with a note that it had not been updated. Since MANTA uses the D&B output, it is even further removed from any current reality.

EPL was always a toy manufacturing company. That very basic business write up is from several years ago and describes what the German company said about its LGBoA subsidiary and its products at that time.

Co President = “Company President”, not Co-President. Just a matter of english abbreviations being used by native German speakers / writers. When that was written, Johhannes Richter was the company president.

BTW, I just tried to go to that MANTA page and it now reads “Sorry, the page you’re trying to reach is temporarily unavailable or the page may no longer exist.”

Someone may have cleaned it up / out.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#7

The LGBoA web page looks as it’s always looked to me. It still says LGB on it. The only thing that doesn’t work is the actual LGB products button. Probably not working because there are no new products.

Wendell, at this time it’s best to heed Tony’s and HJ’s advise and sit back and watch. It’s currently in uncharted waters and nobody knows for sure what’s going to be the final outcome. LGBoA needs to make a statement on intent and Marklin needs to make a statement of product to be produced at least for the upcoming Christmas season.

#8
Warren Mumpower said:
The LGBoA web page looks as it's always looked to me. It still says LGB on it. The only thing that doesn't work is the actual LGB products button. Probably not working because there are no new products.

Wendell, at this time it’s best to heed Tony’s and HJ’s advise and sit back and watch. It’s currently in uncharted waters and nobody knows for sure what’s going to be the final outcome. LGBoA needs to make a statement on intent and Marklin needs to make a statement of product to be produced at least for the upcoming Christmas season.


THe products link opens a popup… of this address:

http://www.lgboa.com/content/lgbtoytrain/lgbtoytrain.htm

Still works as it always has for me, almost.

No support for the MTS Computer interface right now, but that will surely be worked out in the future.

#9

That’s strange as it’s a dead link for me on the home page.

#10
Warren Mumpower said:
That's strange as it's a dead link for me on the home page.
check your browsers popup settings.... in Mozilla it opens a child window, IE7 opens a new tab for me.
#11
dave wiskochil said:
..................

Still works as it always has for me, almost.

No support for the MTS Computer interface right now, but that will surely be worked out in the future.


Dave,

It will be interesting to see just which part of MTS will be supported. IMHO if Märklin is smart that will be one segment that is ceded to Massoth.

LGB as an intermediary on MTS was a pain at the best of times and a real pain most of the other times. And LGBoA used to be even worse, I distinctly remember some of the wishy-washy answers one would receive to very precise questions. The G Scale Group with D.Buffington as the messenger was even “better”!
OTOH those who bought into the MTS myth got what they were looking for. Red boxes, red boxes, more red boxes!

#12
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
dave wiskochil said:
..................

Still works as it always has for me, almost.

No support for the MTS Computer interface right now, but that will surely be worked out in the future.


Dave,

It will be interesting to see just which part of MTS will be supported. IMHO if Märklin is smart that will be one segment that is ceded to Massoth.

LGB as an intermediary on MTS was a pain at the best of times and a real pain most of the other times. And LGBoA used to be even worse, I distinctly remember some of the wishy-washy answers one would receive to very precise questions. The G Scale Group with D.Buffington as the messenger was even “better”!
OTOH those who bought into the MTS myth got what they were looking for. Red boxes, red boxes, more red boxes!


Easy there H-J. Your comments could very easily be interpreted as insults, if the reader were not well versed in standard web-forum (un)politeness.

I am one of those people who bought into the MTS myth. I enjoy my computer control, and I also would like to enhance my computer control systems and digital control. I bought MTS without much background knowledge of DCC. Please also remember that MTS was the only warrantee-able DCC system available for my LGB fleet. I could have gone digitrax, but I was very afraid of the possibly enormous repair costs and hassles if there was a malfunction.

The thing is, it works for me as advertized, if not at the most cost effective level. I do have a bunch of MTS red boxes. I also know that if I want to move to Digitrax, I will have a bunch more white boxes in my future and possibly less cost effective than maintaining my current MTS regime. I am truely vexed as to the direction forward.

I do think that Massoth will take over the entire range of MTS. The Marklin navigator is a great product, and from Marklin’s standpoint, it would not be good to divide the market with two DCC products from the same manufacturer.

#13
dave wiskochil said:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
dave wiskochil said:
..................

Still works as it always has for me, almost.

No support for the MTS Computer interface right now, but that will surely be worked out in the future.


Dave,

It will be interesting to see just which part of MTS will be supported. IMHO if Märklin is smart that will be one segment that is ceded to Massoth.

LGB as an intermediary on MTS was a pain at the best of times and a real pain most of the other times. And LGBoA used to be even worse, I distinctly remember some of the wishy-washy answers one would receive to very precise questions. The G Scale Group with D.Buffington as the messenger was even “better”!
OTOH those who bought into the MTS myth got what they were looking for. Red boxes, red boxes, more red boxes!


Easy there H-J. Your comments could very easily be interpreted as insults, if the reader were not well versed in standard web-forum (un)politeness.

I am one of those people who bought into the MTS myth. I enjoy my computer control, and I also would like to enhance my computer control systems and digital control. I bought MTS without much background knowledge of DCC. Please also remember that MTS was the only warrantee-able DCC system available for my LGB fleet. I could have gone digitrax, but I was very afraid of the possibly enormous repair costs and hassles if there was a malfunction.

The thing is, it works for me as advertized, if not at the most cost effective level. I do have a bunch of MTS red boxes. I also know that if I want to move to Digitrax, I will have a bunch more white boxes in my future and possibly less cost effective than maintaining my current MTS regime. I am truely vexed as to the direction forward.

I do think that Massoth will take over the entire range of MTS. The Marklin navigator is a great product, and from Marklin’s standpoint, it would not be good to divide the market with two DCC products from the same manufacturer.


Dave you just confirmed what I wrote

HJ said:
................... OTOH those who bought into the MTS myth got what they were looking for. Red boxes, red boxes, more red boxes!
;) :)

When I started in LS back in 1999 DCC wasn’t even on the horizon for me, I knew zilch about it other than the very, very basics.

I spent two years looking at all the tech features of the different systems that were on the market and decided that ZIMO was the most versatile allround system that allows me to run anything from N to LS with no muss or fuss; with the same feature set in the different scales. And it is very cost effective to boot i.e. new features for control components like command station, handheld update the firmware to the newest version via the Internet. Always right up to newest standard. Soooo you’re welcome to all the red boxes with MTS, I don’t need any!

Massoth’s own system is a good step up from what MTS represents, but even there Massoth will only go so far with backward compatability with MTS.
BTW Massoth doesn’t need to take over the MTS range, they produced it - to EPL’s specs!!! - from MTS2 forward in any case, prior to that it was OEMed by Lenz - again according to EPL’s specs. In clear text that means MTS has been a dumbed-down system all along - according to EPL’s wishes - it didn’t matter if Lenz or Massoth produced it.
It was very interesting to note that the first Massoth system delivered 12A of power, they knew that 5A (as for LGB MTS) was a severe limitation in the LS field.

BTW remembering all those warranty disclaimers in the different manuals, did you ever check if there was a discernible difference between electrons coming from a “Red Box” as compared to a generic power supply or for that matter a full fledged NMRA-DCC system?? :wink: :slight_smile: :wink:

#14

Smoke and mirrors, Dave, smoke and mirrors.

When you buy proprietary stuff, and OEM at that, you end up right where you are now.

One of many reasons I went on-board battery r/c.
There are no such limitations.
I do not EVER have to worry about control system compatibility.
Or, remembering to bring my 1K ohm resistor to “fix” the host’s programming track.

The real good part is you bought a system that is set to the high end of nmra track voltage specs, which precludes use of other systems on their system.
Ever see the threads on Quasinami-equipped 3-truck Shays and what they do on MTS?

I have seen enough of several systems to know anything out of those companies I won’t even consider using.

#15
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
BTW remembering all those warranty disclaimers in the different manuals, did you ever check if there was a discernible difference between electrons coming from a "Red Box" as compared to a generic power supply or for that matter a full fledged NMRA-DCC system?? ;) :) ;)
You know the electrons are the same, I know the electrons are the same, LGB knew the electrons were the same, but LGB wanted to sell me more red boxes, and as such, wrote their warranty reflecting that desire. Never was happy about this, but new to the hobby I thought it was the price required to play.
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
BTW Massoth doesn't need to take over the MTS range, they produced it - to EPL's specs!!!! - from MTS2 forward in any case, prior to that it was OEMed by Lenz - again according to EPL's specs. In clear text that means MTS has been a dumbed-down system all along - according to EPL's wishes - it didn't matter if Lenz or Massoth produced it.
Ahh, yes, but now Kingsbridge owns Lehman Patentworks, and as such, owns the rights to MTS and all of its dumbed down Massoth protocol that it involves. It is up for the lawyers with the deepest pockets to determine what happens next with those patents.
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
When I started in LS back in 1999 DCC wasn't even on the horizon for me, I knew zilch about it other than the very, very basics.
I started in the LS field back in 2000 when I was given a Bachmann starter set. Troubles with that set were immediate, and costly to repair. The LGB stuff that was purchased next worked correctly out of the box, better than the Bachmann, and ended up being more fun. With my MTS, I guess I am victim of a good sell of a poor product. I understand that the MTS is less equipped than other vendors. But to say that I went this way with blind allegiance is a bit misleading. I went this way after carefully considering things such as factory warranty support, demonstrated reliability of product, and name recognition.
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
........Soooo you're welcome to all the red boxes with MTS, I don't need any!
Ahh, but If I were to move to a Zimo set now, I will have plenty of boxes, whatever color they may be, with Zimo plastered all over them. Again, no fun for me.

You know, this brings up a general point on this whole experience for me.

Let me compare it to purchasing a car… Lets imagine that you had purchased a car from an American manufacturer. You then had nothing but expensive repair bills with that product. Your next car? You decide to shell out a bit more for a luxury model from overseas. This car is working great! Its a bit expensive to purchase the remote starter, mudflaps, and authentic manufacturer-supported fuzzy dice, but everything works together, and works well. No problems with quality, only happy ownership. Other car models are available, but you are wanting the utmost reliability, and factory support only available with factory components. In fact, if you purchase a lower-cost stereo for the car, it may void the warranty of the entire electronics system if there were a failure. Off brand mudflaps void the paint warranty. You are reminded that remote starters from a competitive manufacturer will certainly destroy the motor of the vehicle, and that would not be covered by your warranty.

Now that the Car manufacturer has been sold to another car maker, through the direction of a private equity firm, you are stuck looking for either a new car or newer and bigger fuzzy dice. To make things better, the limitations of the mudflaps that you already own are becoming much more visible. Even better than that? People that you know fire potshots at you for purchasing that brand of car to begin with. It is a bit hard to handle, let me tell you. The reaction of the greater automotive community makes you feel that it would be better to ride a bicycle!

#16
Curmudgeon said:
Smoke and mirrors, Dave, smoke and mirrors.

When you buy proprietary stuff, and OEM at that, you end up right where you are now.


Would have been better to know this information in 2000…

But what does this mean? Is it really good or is it sarcasm? Please tell me, I don’t have anywhere near enough experience to know:

Curmudgeon said:
The real good part is you bought a system that is set to the high end of nmra track voltage specs, which precludes use of other systems on their system.
I do know that the LGB motors require more voltage than the Bachmann, and a number of the other manufacturers require significantly more amps than the standard 1A LGB unit, but I have no idea what you meant by that.
Curmudgeon said:
Ever see the threads on Quasinami-equipped 3-truck Shays and what they do on MTS?

I have seen enough of several systems to know anything out of those companies I won’t even consider using.


Re the Bachmann Tsunami system, I think back to my Bachmann starter set, didnt work when pulled out of the box…that would be the American car company referred to from my previous post!

I know you have ages of experience with RC/Batt railways. Personally? I am not good with batteries. I can spend months away from the home on travel, and return home for scant hours between. I like the knowledge that the railway will be ready to run at a seconds notice, without any fuss, worry, or charge delay times. I know most (if not all) of these issues have probably been addressed, and workaround/fixes have been found… but then I am still left with the requirement to purchase a whole bunch of boxes, this time they will be upside down, with Tony’s label on them. No fun for me again!

#17

I must also take a moment to say that RC/Batt locomotives are great (and for most would be ideal), but just like anything else, are not a universal solution to the model railroad control problem.

I envy the ability you have to work on any properly gauged rail, regardless of rail makeup, oxidation level, etc. That is fantastic. I think its great that you don’t need to worry about visiting other railways, and having compatibility problems on their railways. I envy RC. I just don’t think its for me.

But in my situation, I am very involved in computer control. I want to have five trains running at a time. All running by the correct rules of the road, with schedules and goals. I want to interface with that system with one cab, one loco, to move around the railroad and interface with those other locos. Consider it a big, costly, finely detailed video game, I guess.

When others come to visit, so long as they have MTS chips, they can bring their controller and plug in. Now, two manually controlled locos and several more working prototypically in the background.

But… my previously mentioned travel schedule comes into play both on visiting other layouts and having guests. While I am always able to be online, I am not often home. Scheduling train days is very difficult for me, its better that I sit with my wife, and she and I play with several other carefully simulated locomotive engineers!

#18
dave wiskochil said:
.........................

The reaction of the greater automotive community makes you feel that it would be better to ride a bicycle!


:lol: :lol:

Come to think of it I have three bicycles and a ZIMO system.

I also drive a mid-entry level minivan called “Venture”, that one I bought strictly because of the name. :wink: :slight_smile:

#19
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
dave wiskochil said:
.........................

The reaction of the greater automotive community makes you feel that it would be better to ride a bicycle!


:lol: :lol:

Come to think of it I have three bicycles and a ZIMO system.

I also drive a mid-entry level minivan called “Venture”, that one I bought strictly because of the name. :wink: :slight_smile:


I have three bikes, a tandem, but no Zimo. I use R/C, but haven’t made up my mind on which system.

To steal a line from my good friend Vic, I drive a hybrid pickup. It burns both diesel fuel and lube oil. :lol: :smiley:

#20

No, LGB motors do NOT take more voltage than Bachmann!
Actually, quiet a bit less!
The issue is the voltage dropping network on the input.
Designed to make lights, smoke and sound spool up before the loco moves.
I bypass said network, feed the motors directly.

We have a Euro(trash) 0-6-6-0 that HAD 16.8V in it.
It was setting land speed records.
Dropped it to 14.4v, still faster than anything else.

Ever notice that on track power cheapie starter set locos are MUCH faster than more expensive locos?
Because, most starter sets don’t have that network.
You should read up on the early red catalog about main line/switching locos sometime.

And, no, wasn’t a put-down, and the primary reason you didn’t hear about it in 2000 was the Ventilator Shill Crowd who shouted down any factual data being presented as “bashing”.

We don’t even bother trying to get out fixes on aristocr…aft and the ex-LGB line anymore.

As far as I am concerned, they can fix the problems themselves.

TOC