Large Scale Central

LGB of America and PIKO =?

General Discussion
#1

The October issue of Garden RR marks the second issue LGB of America has run a full page ad with the fine print declaration at the bottom of the page: “LGB and LGB of America are trademarks of LGB of America, Inc.”
For "complete information…see your LGB of A authorized retailer or visit www.lgboa.com.

For me, this second LGB of America ad repeats again what is contradictory to what we, as the hobby population, have been reported by Marklin: Marklin OWNS the LGB copyright and Stainz logo.

Here starts the big disconnect: Certainly PIKO, G-45 or LGB of America were aware that the purchase of LGB of Germany would include ownership of the logo. Then why did LGB of America make an effort to buy LGB of Germany if they already owned the trademark and useage? Is this not a conspiracy of confusion?

TRY THIS OUT: Undisputed reports are that LGB of America made offers to purchase LGB of Germany. Were they then attempting to buy LGB from themselves? Crazy? Read on: LGB of America continues to state they own LGB and LGB of America as their own trademarks. The last ad, as well as the one previously, clearly shows the Stainz logo and the “R” at the end of the LGB of America trademark. So why did they make a bid to own what they claim they already own? Way before the last two ads were published, either LGB of America knew full well that the trademarks were to be sold to someone else – at least their bids did not go through --or they clearly were claiming they were still the owners. Then, what were they buying? If they own the trademarks, the new owner – in this case Marklin – is screwed. They can’t mfg. a thing under LGB without LGB of America’s permission.

Bigger yet, IF Marklin really does own, per court declaration, the trademarks, are they permitting LGB of America to continue to distribute products under the LGB banner, logo, colors, and the Stainz logo?

If they do, what then exclusive product did they purchase? Are they ignoring the ads – those ads are in the singular, world-wide, and exclusive large scale publication. NO Marklin ads have been seen.

Somewhere and somehow, the shootout at the LGB logo-trademark corral has yet to happen or the above suggested responses by Marklin to LGB of America (G-45) are dead-on.

There is NO way months ago – way before any Garden RR ads were set — LGB of America didn’t know they had lost ownership of the trademark.

Or have they?

Wendell

#2

Wendell,
I would not try to read anything into this situation. Magazine lead times would require several months submission of an advertisement prior to publication. It is possible that G45 ‘assumed’ that the sale was ‘in the bag’ and negated to follow up with ad placements to correct anomalies.

        LGBoA were not trying to buy themselves out.  In a twist of fate and philantrophy unknown in the business world,  a good fairy godmother/godfather bequested the G45 company with ownership of LGBoA, along with ownership of the trademark and worldwide marketting rights outside of Germany.  This last part is as confusing as the marketting rights outside of Germany.  Was there a plan to have two separate corporate entities marketting the LGB registered brandname,  but serving separate market consumer bases?  This is something which has been totally overlooked in the big scheme.  It is also possible that the act may have been viewed, internally, as possible contrary to German law and so the plan was to possibly put some 'assets' beyond reach. 



        I believe that rather than start a legal wrangle,  Marklin are giving LGBoA sufficient lead time to get their house in order and permit a smooth transition of ownership of intellectual and property rights to migrate to Marklin with minimal disruption.   If LGBoA really thought that they had a leg to stand on then we would have heard of a court battle pending over ownership of such rights.  My take is that with a nod and a wink,  the colonial consortium believed that paying lip service to any bids on Lehmann was all that was needed as the deal was already in the can.  It would have definately been in LGBoA/G45 interests to maintain true ownership of the brandname as they will always be regarded as the true custodians of the brandname.  Is it possible that a detailed look at the books revealed that the concern was a financial deadhorse and not worth rescuing.  How else would one explain the laid back bidding response to the takeover,  as any potential bids were always at the twelth hour and always a whisker short of the required amount.   Collusion,  possible business partnership????    LGBoA/G45 have not said one thing since July 26th.  If they truly believed that they owned the copyright on the trademarks then it would be in the press (and the courts).
#3

Tim and others:

Interesting premise – if I understand accurately your analysis – LGB of America bids on LGB of Germany so there will be two LGB corporations. Hmmmm. OK, interesting idea. However, what then of manufacturing of products? Who does what?

For me this saga is incredibly engaging.

Wendell

#4

Wendell,
since August/September last year, there have been two separate companies marketting the Lehmann brandname. One company inside of Germany and one in the States. Reread the previous about corporate actions possibly breaching German law. Property held by an American registered company would have been more difficult to retain under the law, than if the company was still under German ownership.

        This was not a ploy to ultimately have two companies marketting the same product.  It seems to have come about due 'economic necessity'.  The ultimate aim would have been an unopposed retention of the complete Lehmann company by LGBoA and then business as usual with some minor alterations such as location of premises, country of production, number of indigenous employees retained, etc.  I feel that the consortium seriously underestimated the resolve of the Marklin group in gaining complete control.  One needs to consider that when this 'business plan' was hatched,  Marklin were not even in the running.  A complete lack of response from LGBoA as regards the successful Marklin bid is extremely curious,  much like the embarassed little boy caught with his hand in the lolly jar.
#5

Wendell, Tim,

My take on this… Bank observer to cousins need more money… Cousins will sell LGB of A to G45… Done… Bank observer to cousins not enough money, need more… Cousins will sell all the inventory to G45… Done… Banks HOT D*mm… Banks call in loans… G45 looks @ what is left & says we do not need this headache… Marklin now has the headache… Also check the web site of LGB of A…

#6

Bob,
only one small detail missing from your observation. There has been no statement as yet that any renumeration was received for the ‘sale/transfer’ of LGBoA, or for the huge inventory shipped, just prior to declaring insolvency. This is the major hiccup in the whole scenario. Why would a manufacturer ship considerable stock to a company which it no longer has any perceived, from an ethical legal standpoint, stake in? Was a ship now, possibly pay later clause in place, on the understanding that LGBoA would regain control of the entire company? Far to many unanswered questions for a business transaction, that under the spotlight, is full of holes, considering the business situation at the time of company title transfer and shipment of stock.

#7

Tim,

The sale of LGB of A & the inventroy to G45 was before the insolvency was declared… And if it was a issue we would have heard by now… There fore we will never hear about it…

#8
Bob Burton said:
Tim,

The sale of LGB of A & the inventroy to G45 was before the insolvency was declared… And if it was a issue we would have heard by now… There fore we will never hear about it…


Bob,

Hmmm … interesting!

It has always struck me as very curious that

a) G45 would have the money to “acquire” LGBoA.

b) LGBoA would have the money to “buy” all that inventory.

Since Märklin has that “hold back” in case of any surprises - that could include all manner of things i.e. has all the inventory delivered to LGBoA while Goede was in charge been paid for? where the terms the usual? were there special discounts and if, why? has the LGB inventory which surfaced on German eBay in copious numbers from two specific sellers been accounted for? … and on and on and on. Nothing to do with “green gremlins” (as one of the “Expert Ventilators” put it), a lot more to do with Märklin’s thoroughness.

BTW Bob, there is a very huge difference bewteen hearing about it and reading about it. :wink: :slight_smile: I always wait 'til I read about it. :wink: :wink:

#9

Hans-Joerg,

Can you prove that inventory was delivered to LGB of A while Goede was in charge?? I would hope that the court would want cash in hand before it delivered the goods… Do not know about the German e-bay, have seen nothing to read on it… Old saying still applys “bird in hand is better than 2 in the bush”!!

#10

Lets fix this broken record by throwing it out!

TOG

#11
Bob Burton said:
Hans-Joerg,

Can you prove that inventory was delivered to LGB of A while Goede was in charge?? I would hope that the court would want cash in hand before it delivered the goods… Do not know about the German e-bay, have seen nothing to read on it… Old saying still applys “bird in hand is better than 2 in the bush”!!


Bob,

Would you accept a statement from “the horse’s mouth” in this case David Buffington, President of G45?

David Buffington said:
Fri Apr 6, 2007 7:12 pm

“David Buffington” <david.buffington@…>
dbuffington

Re: LGBoA roll.

— In [email protected], “keithdrgw” <klawer@…> wrote:

How is LGBoA staying in business or do you deal with other
manufacturers products that keeps LGBoA going?

Hi Keith!

Tony – that is, Tony Castellano, President of LGBoA – really pushed
to get as much merchandise as possible out of Lehmann while it was
under control of the bankruptcy administrator, Dr. Goede. We received
more than a dozen containers of merchandise in December alone, and
while stocks of some items are low and stocks of a few items are gone,
we’re generally in decent shape for the time being.

But of course, we’re watching the situation in Nürnberg extremely
closely and hope to see a new owner resume production soon. We’ve also
been handling non-LGB merchandise (Bridgewerks, EMEK, PIKO), and we
will have alternate sources of LGB merchandise, if that becomes necessary.

It’s been tough, I know. And we truly appreciate the patience of our
customers.

Thanks!
Dave


Above from http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LGBFamily/message/105

Lots of info on the dealings of the two eBay sellers on the German fora, one of them has in the meantime been de-listed. :wink: :slight_smile: Wonder what’s at the root of that, eh? :wink: :slight_smile: :wink:

#12
John Bouck said:
Lets fix this broken record by throwing it out!

TOG


JB

There are a few more tracks on this CD which the laser hasn’t lit up, yet. :wink: :slight_smile:

OTOH do you own a Chicken Dance and a Laughing car? If you do … :lol: :lol: :lol:

#13

<<OTOH do you own a Chicken Dance and a Laughing car? If you do … >>

Naw, not me!
I think the goofiest car I have is the keg car. And then I find out there is such a thing in Austria!
Damn!

TOG

#14

I notice from the link to LGBOA posted by Wendell yesterday that LGBOA will be attending the Hobby Expo in Illinois 18-21 October. (presumably this year).

As they will be there, presumably. to promote their products and sell some of them it is unlikely that they will want to answer lots of question - particularly the sort that have been posed in this and all the other Forums.

It is my hunch that info will be forthcoming before the dates above to make life easy.

As they say “watch this space”. lol

#15

Hans-Joerg,

Do you think that Dr. Goede let LGB of A floor-plan those dozen containers they got in December?? Or do you think that he ask for cash first??

Gota go

#16
Bob Burton said:
Hans-Joerg,

Do you think that Dr. Goede let LGB of A floor-plan those dozen containers they got in December?? Or do you think that he ask for cash first??

Gota go


I have no idea what agreement(s) Goede arrived at with LGBoA!
OTOH when I look at

1 – LGBoA bids for EPL Patentwerk together with “Intro” (owned by Wöhrl)

2 – LGBoA enters a stand-alone bid, then withdraws the bid

3 – LGBoA bids again together with Jakob/Nimbus etc.

and everything else that happend since Sept 2006, I tend to add a few of those together and crosscheck the connections. All in all there is a lot of food for thought there - not to mention any of the items prior to Sept 2006 - and in good time more will be known and published. :wink: :slight_smile: This one is all about patience; we know that “next week” is just a crummy expression. :lol: :wink: :lol:

#17

Alan,
I would indeed be suprised if LGBoA trundles out its ‘new’ 0-6-0 USRA steamer at Illinois in October. The design utilised existing Lehmann tooling for many major parts. To start the program from scratch would cost in excess of one-half million dollars. Would not this money have been better utilised to up the latest bid on July 26th? Then they would have had access to all the ex-Lehmann tooling. Although what is the possibility that sufficient spare parts were not placed under the pillow for just such an occasion, as it seems that just about everything else crossed the Atlantic in those heady late European summer (and winter) days of 2006?

    All the LGBoA designs (Amtrak cars, 50-footer steel boxcar and no doubt other designs) were done while under the watchful eye of their German masters and so rights to those designs would revert to Marklin. 


    Final outcome, LGBoA will be present at the show in October as a distributor of its numerous contracted brandnames and not as a manufacturer.  This is ruling out the possibility of one or two rich European investors taking a chance in the hobby/toy market and bankrolling the company.  All though, once again,  if the money was available now, then why not available only six weeks ago.   I really doubt that the 'big names' will be present at the show (too many unanswered questions from the 'faithful').  One is able to easily push aside a question on a family group forum,  but face to face is a little embarassing, without seeming to be rude to the one asking the question.
#18

Tim-
Sharp analysis on your part.
My guess is same as yours: LGB of America will simply validate operations at the Illinois show by featuring its distributor-based products . Your rhetorical utilization question the steamer money would have been better utilized in a successful bid for LGB of Germany makes sense – so it is very doubtful the steamer money is available, so the steamer is likely not a reality.

Now, for me, who is going to define LGB of America? Themselves? Marklin? A German bank? A USA trademark ruling?

We wait …

Wendell

#19

Take a look at what just showed up on MyLargeScale (link)!!

Is there a (barely concealed) message there?

Happy RRing,

Jerry Bowers

#20

Yes, Wendell, we wait. :wink: :slight_smile:

Not for “next week”, “real soon now” or some other vague item.

Here in NA we wait for: A press release from G45/LGBoA.

In Europe the waiting is, to a large extent, over; product is being delivered, spare parts that were ordered by various customers are being delivered. Etc. etc. etc.

Anyone asking the “money question” regarding development of brand new product by LGBoA, read the replies from Buffington regarding the 0-6-0 steamer and listen to the LSOL interview one more time. You did download and save, didn’t you? :wink:

Here in Coldstream I wait 'til tomorrow to order more Aristo track for our show layout.