Large Scale Central

Ladder Support Survey

Track and Trestles
#1

Hi All,

I am going to give a seminar at the Fall ECLSTS on ladder support systems. Rather that just discuss my experiences I thought it would be good to add the experiences of others with ladder support and their personal tweaks to the system. If you would not mind spending a bit of time with this survey I would truly appreciate it plus any pictures of construction or completed systems would be appreciated even more. All due credits will be given.
Please email me with your survey and pics at - brian(at)alternativeterrain.com .
I’ll publish the results here in an article after ECLSTS.

the survey

what material did you use for your ladder rails? (trex, tufboard, trimplank, etc.)

what is the dimension of the material and was it cut or manufactured to that size or did you rip it down from larger stock?

what material did you use for the ladder rungs/spacers? (PT lumber, etc.)
ditto on the dimensions,etc.

what is the total width of your ladder?

what material did you use for your uprights? (pvc pipe, PT lumber, etc.)

how far apart are your supports and spacers?

how tall is your ladder track?
is it filled in underneath (if so with what?) or free standing?

how much of your support did you bury? and what did you use to set it? (concrete, existing soil, gravel, etc.)

fasteners used? (deck screws, etc. sizes?)

Additional comments -
Pro/cons, likes/dislikes for your system
what would you do different?

Thanks and don’t forget the pictures!

-Brian

#2

Brian, this should be interesting. Perhaps the folks could publish their surveys here? There can be a lot to be learned…

#3

Brian, you have mail…:wink:

#4

Brian, 1 what material did you use for your ladder rails? (trex, tufboard, trimplank, etc.) Trimplank 2 what is the dimension of the material and was it cut or manufactured to that size or did you rip it down from larger stock? 1x2inch, manufactured 3 what material did you use for the ladder rungs/spacers? (PT lumber, etc.) 1 7/8 trimplank, cut from a 12 foot piece 4 ditto on the dimensions,etc. 5 what is the total width of your ladder? Not sure on the width the track hangs over about 1/8 on both sides 6 what material did you use for your uprights? (pvc pipe, PT lumber, etc.) 1 1/2 inch pvc pipe 7 how far apart are your supports and spacers? 20 - 24 inches 8 how tall is your ladder track? is it filled in underneath (if so with what?) or free standing? Some is back filled some free standing, free standing is about 2 feet 9 how much of your support did you bury? and what did you use to set it? (concrete, existing soil, gravel, etc.) Drilled a 3 inch hole 24 inches deep, drove the pipe down another 4 inches. Back filled with dirt. 10 fasteners used? (deck screws, etc. sizes?) Deck screws 1 5/8 inch for ladder and 3 inch to fasten ladder to pipe

(http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/500/Wahsatchsiding_E1.jpg)

#5

Most of the info is pictured here

http://www.triplecrails.com/2003/2003Exp1.htm

Utra deck cladding from Menards. 4" wide, cut in half.

Deck screws, combination of supports.

I would raise the lower portion higher and have less elevation change. Still plan to do that.

craig

P.S. fell free to use any of the pictures.

#6

1…Trim plank and Tuf Board (please note that trimplank is 5/8 thick where Tuf Board is 3/4")
2…1x4 dimensional(for areas that would be walked on ( very difficult to bend but incredibly strong.)
1x2 in other areas
3…same material but where connecting 2 sections 3" blocks cut from Trex balustrades(1.5"x1.25") were used.
4…3" as the width of the supports was 1.5"
5…Trex(actually Weyerhauser version) balustrades
4…6"
5… Most is back filled what is still exposed it’s highest point is approx 12" off the ground with the balustrades beat flat into the ground. Stakes are spaced approx 24" on center
6…decking screws
Here are the only pictures I have posted of the early building days,feel free to use what you like and if want more or something more specific I can e-mail them to you if you wish.
http://saabpics.com:3000/gallery2/v/MrWinkey/Railroad/?g2_page=1

Comments…
For on the ground applications or slightly off the ground I feel this system is fantastic especially for curves. I can level large sections in one shot say in spring. For my long runs I really prefer the treated decking on PT posts.

#7

Brian Donovan said:
Hi All, the survey what material did you use for your ladder rails? (trex, tufboard, trimplank, etc.) USED TRELLIS TRIM what is the dimension of the material and was it cut or manufactured to that size or did you rip it down from larger stock? AS PURCHASED: 3/4" X 1.5" CHANNEL PVC what material did you use for the ladder rungs/spacers? (PT lumber, etc.) ditto on the dimensions,etc. PT LUMBER 1 7/8" SPACING 18" . what is the total width of your ladder? 3.5" APPROX what material did you use for your uprights? (pvc pipe, PT lumber, etc.) PT LUMBER 2X4 DOUBLED UP how far apart are your supports and spacers? 2 FEET how tall is your ladder track? is it filled in underneath (if so with what?) or free standing? BOTH: MAX ELEVATION IS 18" how much of your support did you bury? and what did you use to set it? (concrete, existing soil, gravel, etc.) FREE FLOATING HOWEVER SUPPORTS ARE MOUNTED ON 4X4 CONCRETE FASTNERS - PINNED INTO GROUND BY 3". fasteners used? (deck screws, etc. sizes?) GYPROC SCREWS Additional comments - Pro/cons, likes/dislikes for your system what would you do different? BY USING CHANNEL, BE CAREFUL NOT TO OVER TIGHTEN THE SCREWS (DISTORTS THE CHANNEL) TRELLIS CHANNEL READILY AVAILABLE IN VARIOUS COLORS. NEED TO FIND A BETTER WAY TO JOIN THE SECTIONS TOGETHER. SPACERS CAN SPLIT. Thanks and don’t forget the pictures! -Brian

(http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs109.snc1/4803_118230142743_623662743_3300889_3226667_n.jpg)

(http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs109.snc1/4803_118230172743_623662743_3300892_3597631_n.jpg)

(http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs109.snc1/4803_118231267743_623662743_3300903_8042744_n.jpg)

#8

Brian,

I’ve only tried this in a couple of problem areas where I couldn’t keep the track level through a curve. Most of my track free floats on the ground. Everybody’s comments here, plus extra input from Jon Radder, Bruce Chandler and Ken Brunt lead me to try this method. It is still an unproven experiment for me in this area.

  1. What material did you use for your ladder rails? (trex, tufboard, trimplank, etc.)

Vinyl trim sold locally at Lowe’s, don’t know the name.

  1. What is the dimension of the material and was it cut or manufactured to that size or did you rip it down from larger stock?

1/2 x 1 1/2 inch

  1. What material did you use for the ladder rungs/spacers? (PT lumber, etc.)

1 1/2 x 1 1/2 bannisters, cut from a 10 foot piece

  1. Ditto on the dimensions,etc.

  2. What is the total width of your ladder?

Not sure on the width the track rails sit right on top of it in most places.

  1. What material did you use for your uprights? (pvc pipe, PT lumber, etc.)

1 3/8 inch electrical conduit pvc pipe.

  1. How far apart are your supports and spacers?

12 - 24 inches.

  1. How tall is your ladder track? Is it filled in underneath (if so with what?) or free standing?

On the ground in a trench and back filled with ballast.

  1. How much of your support did you bury? and what did you use to set it? (concrete, existing soil, gravel, etc.)

Drove the 12 inch pipes down. Back filled with dirt. All of it is buried in ballast. We have about 8 inches of frost heave.

  1. Fasteners used? (deck screws, etc. sizes?)

Deck screws 1 5/8 inch for ladder and 1 1/4 inch to fasten ladder to pipe

#9
Ric Golding said:
Brian,

Jon Radder, Bruce Chandler and Ken Brunt lead me to try this method.


Are you saying they “Goaded You”??
:wink:

#10

No, I ask them for advice.

#11

OK …just checking!
:slight_smile:

#12

Art smass

#13

what material did you use for your ladder rails? (trex, tufboard, trimplank, etc.)
Never rot Trim

what is the dimension of the material and was it cut or manufactured to that size or did you rip it down from larger stock?

1x3

what material did you use for the ladder rungs/spacers? (PT lumber, etc.)
ditto on the dimensions,etc.

Trex

what is the total width of your ladder?

width of Track

what material did you use for your uprights? (pvc pipe, PT lumber, etc.)
Trex and PVC Pipe

how far apart are your supports and spacers?
supports every 18" spacers every 6"

how tall is your ladder track?
is it filled in underneath (if so with what?) or free standing?

freestanding 18 "

how much of your support did you bury? and what did you use to set it? (concrete, existing soil, gravel, etc.)

pounded it 6" deep in dirt .

fasteners used? (deck screws, etc. sizes?)

Drywall screws

Additional comments -
Pro/cons, likes/dislikes for your system
what would you do different?

Nothing different, It’s been doing well in Texas heat for 2 Yrs.

#14

With all the labour, and parts involved in “The Ladder Method”, and after a short experiment to see if it would actually be better; I gave up. I stick with the tried and true PT 2x lumber for my roadbed. After using it for nigh on 20 years, it has proved it’s worth, for me.

#15

Yes but you can can put a 12’ stick of Trimplank in an MGB “HARDTOP”. Easily packed a few into a Saab this past weekend.

#16

Dear Fred and one monk of the past…

wood is out my man… heeee…eh?

Now… this wine bit is indeed something that must be part of the equation.

gg

#17

Fred, you’ll get no argument from me for raised bench work built strictly for operation, but for track on the ground and in gardens, it’s a lot simpler. I don’t think it’s really any more labor intensive, just different methods. One advantage is the ability to use the ladder to form sweeping curves with easements then bend the track to follow the ladder. It’s tough to get nice looking curved roadbed with square lumber.

#18
David Russell said:
Yes but you can can put a 12' stick of Trimplank in an MGB "HARDTOP". Easily packed a few into a Saab this past weekend.
That was a big factor in my using the Tufboard. While I have carried some 2x8 in my convertible, the Tufboard was a LOT easier. ;)
#19

Here goes,

Our club uses 2" sch 40 PVC pipe for supports embedded in concrete 12-18 inches deep (in sunny Florida). Ladder is made up of 1/2" x 1 1/2" PVC trim material available at the Blue Box store (locally). Spacers are of the same material, 2 3/8" wide. Total width of ladder support is 3 5/8", assembled with SS sheet metal screws. Heights vary from less than 18" to about 48" at the highest. Entire ladder system is back filled to the top of the ladder.

See photos on our club website www.ecgrc.com, Jordon Lot link.

Bob C.

#20

Nice work Bob!!!
That’s a heck of a RR …look’s like Andy has some competition…Tee hee hee.

Dear Friar,
I’m by no means disrespecting your method in fact if you read my review I actually prefer the PT decking on my straight runs that are elevated. One other thing that I didn’t note is that the lumber allows for more clank over the “soldered track powered rail joints” (don’t go O.T> as this is a ladder thread)! Where the PVC board seems to asorb this noise.
:wink: