Large Scale Central

Kalmbach Publishers: A message re: "43 Track Plans"

General Discussion
#1

Under supposition the Kalmbach administration reads Large Scale Online, I report an apparent disconnect between Kalmbach magazine management and Garden Railways readers. Their latest e-mail continues a conspiracy of confusion to urge garden large scalers to move to HO and N guage model railroading. No? Can’t be true? Then WHY does Kalmbach continue to badger Garden Railways readers with more ads to buy HO and N gauge track plans? This latest e-mailed urgency made clear this is the “Last chance to order 43 Track Plans From the Experts.”

In comparison, where’s the e-mailed push on the HO and N Model Railroader readers to buy large scale garden railroading track plans? Will Model Railroader readers receive a classy “photo booklet offer” featuring both large scale plans and photos of the gardens they in which they resdide?

The latest Kalmbach CD flap, plus this latest e-mailed offer, gives credence to both catching the large scalers before they leave the hobby and Kalmbach ensuring the HO and N manufacturers that it is trying its best to compensate for a large scale hobby virtually void of new product profits.

Selah,
Wendell

#2

Did I miss the Point?

#3

Wendell,

There are enough garden railroaders who could learn a thing (or two) from studying some modern track plans regardless of scale. But there are even more of the same variety in the smaller scales. I’m “proselytizing” on a layout design forum on a regular basis. Most of the track plans that result are a step up from what Kalmbach usually publishes. (Even if I say so myself) :wink: :slight_smile:

#4

Track plans are track plans - scale doesn’t matter. They are there for ideas. The HO empire my dad and I built years ago was based upon a N scale plan. A subsequent “smaller” layout was from an O gauge tinplate plan. I don’t see them so much pushing anybody, but making sure that a wide audience is aware of what is available. And to your point on Large Scale void of new products - try researching how much it costs to create all the molds etc. to create a new model of an engine - even a diesel. You have to have return on investment and with the cost of materials and labor, it takes selling a lot of a particular model to just recoup your investment, let alone make a profit. Not a lot of people can afford the LS items in the volume needed.

Just my 2 cents.

#5
Steve Weidner said:
Track plans are track plans - scale doesn't matter. They are there for ideas.
Steve, that may well be so, however, regardless of scale chosen, individual scale trackplans take into account the maximum width that a human arm length can reach. Most garden railroads do not need to take this into account. However, there is a growing trend towards largescale shelf type displays and human arm length is a major consideration. 
    As regards your comment on the high cost of tooling for largescale items and limited availability due high upfront costs,  please explain why even 'h.o.' locomotives and rolling stock sell for almost the price of our largescale items.  I am sure that there is a much higher demand for the smaller scales and far quicker amortisation on upfront tooling costs.  Rumour has it that it took LGB over twenty years to recover the tooling costs on their Mogul.
#6

Interesting, especially for me as my indoor garage layout is an upscaled N gauge Microlayout plan but I found it online.

#7
David Russell said:
Did I miss the Point?
Do you ever get it? Except maybe from sharp sticks? :P
#8

I don’t need no stinkin’ track plans. It’s more fun to slap the track down 3 or 4 times until I get it right. :lol:

But seriously, with our present house and yard, I doubt that I could find a plan that fit my needs. Once I start over, there will be a lot of doodling going on. For the present things are in stasis.

Best,
David Meashey

#9

Steve’s observation (above) large scale costs more to develop and produce is accurate. This explains why there is so little large scale being produced compared to HO and N. The point I make is Kalmbach is encouraging large scalers to move to HO and N where the money is. The comparison between Kalmbach soliciting HO and N’ers to move to large scale is laughable. Catch 22: Few efforts are made by Kalmbach to draw HO and N’ers out of their homes to the garden, so the large scale marketplace languishes. Instead, Kalmbach wants the garden group back into the house with HO and N. Notice both Bachmann and MTH are players in HO and N. That leaves Aristo-Craft to sell their “toy” line of non-large scale products. USA and LGB are then out. Marklin has the smaller scales and can dispose of LGB when needed.

Meanwhile, large scale is NOT promoted in the hundreds of garden magazines to reach a new audience. Limited promotion therefore fuels the very problem Steve made so obvious since the cost of production is spread over a very limited consumer base.

To argue track plans are helpful is not the focus.

Kalmbach selling track plans to an audience which is not their focus is obviously a tactic to ensure their advertisers and manufacturers Kalmbach is doing their part to direct the large scale hobby to where the profits are.

Wendell

#10

Wendell, I think that the main reason the garden rags don’t promote garden railroading is because they don’t know anything about it. Why don’t they know anything about it? The LS manufacturers don’t find it worthwhile to advertise there.

Dunno why.

#11
David Russell said:
Did I miss the Point?
I did.
#12
Steve Featherkile said:
Wendell, I think that the main reason the garden rags don't promote garden railroading is because they don't know anything about it. Why don't they know anything about it? The LS manufacturers don't find it worthwhile to advertise there.

Dunno why.


That’s my view as well, when I think about it, which hasn’t been until now. As I see it Kalmbach is just filling space with ads for their own products. Rationale: some Garden RR’ers also model in small scales, poor misbegotten fools…

But I have thought about this in a slightly different context.

The Mfrs haven’t pushed their wares in the following venues----

Building supply (Lowes, Home Depot);
or Garden Centres.

At least not around here that’s for sure.

Added to that is the fact that the very few hobby shops in the area carry sweet diddley in Large Scale. I don’t blame them, BTW,

The situation is so B A D that come the train shows, and some eager novice asks me where they can buy all this neat stuff, I never have a ready answer!!! As the Brits might say, I must look a proper nana.

Imagine if there were even just the sets, for gawdsake, available in Garden centers and Home Depots, don’tcha’ think that might set this hobby on fire? Lookit how those plaster Christmas villages caught on …

About now I hear some of you guys saying, “So, smartypants, how would you fix it?”
I have 2 ideas:

  1. We (not just me) write to the Mfrs and tell them to get their finger out. They don’t have to hire a sales staff for this effort, thought htat might be good, there are Mfr’s agents, mailings, and who knows what other ways for them to approach these outlets.
  2. Every time we walk into one of these places we ask them where their Garden Railway Department is.

And I haven’t mentioned the Big Box stores like Target and Wallmart because I don’t know what goes on in them, but I bet there are no Aristocraft or B’mann Garden Ry sets in there. I never go into them though, so I don’t know for sure. I have noticed that these places have Seasonal Garden Departments, and so do the Building Centres.

It all seems like a natural fit to me.

#13

This whole thing is good for a laugh! Why? Because who cares what Kalmbach sends our way - unless it is free DVDs.
If someone has a problem with trackplans as such, welllll they have a problem! One can take any trackplan and break it down into design elements i.e. station trackage, mainline trackage, industrial trackage etc. etc. and THEN use the separate design elements and make them fir what one wants to do.
As far as trackplans go, the only ones I buy now are in the Model Railroad Planning magazine (also a Kalmbach publication) all the rest is to be found on the internet, from Micro Layouts to the real things.
But yet another thread on Kalmbach’s "interesting"marketing scheme is always good for a laugh. :lol: :lol: Just like the ones about “the other site” being slow. :lol: :lol:

@ John,

Interestingly out Vancouver way Art Knapp’s Gardencenter is the largest GRR dealer west of Alberta. And they used to have some real deals (more than 10 years ago). I upset some people when I cleaned out big time at the right time. :smiley:

#14

I do not fault them for selling the “track plans” to anyone, as it has been pointed out already, a plan is a plan no matter the scale.

Now for the part I don’t get…Track plans for sale? Really? Is laying out track such a difficult thing that you need someone to come up with a plan? I understand laying out your track on paper to see what you may require for a given space but why would you need to buy one? I think that’s why boxes of track don’t usually come with manuals.

No offense intended, I just don’t get it.

#15

Even before the web, magazines had a limited lifespan.

You might quickly think of one or two exceptions, but slow down; these reinvented themselves from top to bottom, including their target audiences.

We can each figure out for ourselves when a particular magazine died for us.

#16
Mark V said:
...I don't get...Track plans for sale? Really? Is laying out track such a difficult thing ... No offense intended, I just don't get it.
You're quite right, Mark, laying out a railroad doesn't seem to be rocket science..

But I must confess here that I have seen some published plans or parts of plans that inspired me in the past, very cleverly laid out towns, places that incorporated particularly complex switching opportunities, or very special combinations of scenery and trackwork, or deliciously contrived and convoluted switchbacks, things that I would never have been clever enough to dream up myself.

But on the whole you’re right: a terminal is a terminal, a waystation is a waystation, a passing siding is a passing siding, and so forth. And with experience, we do get to know what is needed and what is desireable at each location…

Then there was John Armstrong. He was unique, a great model railroader and a philosopher as well. I lapped up all his books on Model Railroad design from cover to cover. In my opinion he took Model Railroad design to whole new levels. I’m eternally grateful for the insights he imparted and for the layout designs with which he illustrated his points. Some plans really are better than others, and for novice railroaders I suspect there could be a lot learned from studying really good track plans.

Then it becomes easy!

#17

John brings up an interesting point. In the hobby business, the number one hobby in the US is Gardening! btw…#2 is said to be Tropical Fish. Each spring, Home Depot and Lowes look like they are giving away plant stuff as people leave with baskets filled with dirt and flowers! I really think they are missing the boat by at the very least not selling G scale starter sets with track.

#18

John P. and John F. are on topic and on target.
The big 1/2 portion of the hobby, that’s gardening, is left out of the advertising picture. Yes, gardening publications swamp the magazine shelves at mega book stores. Sure, Aristo, USA, Bachmann, PIKO, Hartland, and MTH make efforts advertising to us who already have the products. We are already consumers and likely have made our purchases filling our tracks with trains. In contrast, LGB years ago had their products in Christmas store windows for the general public to associate “large trains” with their brand. They did. Oh, yes, they really did! I remember relatives proclaiming “Oh, you have LGB trains” as my USA brand diesel made its rounds. NEVER did I hear the words “LARGE SCALE TRAINS”. No, just LGB. Yes, just LGB trains. The public saw LGB as large scale and bought those cute trains running non-stop at Christmas time. Anyone with minimal IQ knows how the LGB image and simultaneous hobby awareness was created. But, the mfgs. avoid association, not just with Christmas, but the massive gardening industry. Instead, Kalmbach activates their marketing effort to entice the large scalers to build H0 and N track plans and buy trains to run on them. Sending HO and N track plans to garden railroaders is NOT done to give us impetus to build more train layouts outside. Not a chance.

I welcome reading a response from a Kalmbach, a large scale manufacturing representative or a dealer.

Wendell

#19
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
...Art Knapp's Gardencenter is the largest GRR dealer west of Alberta.
WOW! Proves the point, doesn't it?

Tell THAT to the Mfrs. Wait a minute, you’d think they already know it, wouldn’t you?

I wonder why they haven’t acted on it 'round here.

#20
John Le Forestier said:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
...Art Knapp's Gardencenter is the largest GRR dealer west of Alberta.
WOW! Proves the point, doesn't it?

Tell THAT to the Mfrs. Wait a minute, you’d think they already know I, wouldn’t you?

I wonder why they haven’t acted on it 'round here.


I have a water garden center that’s going to have garden trains. Be intresting to see how it does.