Large Scale Central

Kalmbach Publishers: A message re: "43 Track Plans"

General Discussion
#21

A number of years ago, I tried to promote Garden Railways, at a number of garden and horticulture centres around Ottawa, and the valley, to no avail. The buyers, and managers of the centres were all of the opinion that model railroads, or even the thought of “Animation” in the form of a LS train, running in the garden was strictly a California fad.
The suggestion that the Bachmann Christmas train sets could be run in the garden come Summer, just didn’t seem to sink in to their minds.

I gave out invitations to a number of Garden Centre managers, and buyers, to come out and see what I was talking about, but I never saw one take me up on the offer.

I discovered that most of the Garden Centres are stocked by buyers at the chain’s head offices, and the local people had little to say about seasonal purchasing.

With this knowledge; I approached B’mann, who I had a good connection with at the time. I suggested that they send sales persons to the head offices, and meet the buyers of the chains. They politely told me that the buyers could find them at the toy fair in New York…end of story. (It seems that the day of the SALES PERSON, calling on customers, in order to sell a product, is long gone,pity)

First off…the buyers are very much trendy types, governed by the sheep in the herd in that trend setting Left Coast…and Toys are thought of as for Children…the children of today seem “Pushed” towards anything that appears on a screen, or is very competative…such as games of any sort…their parents and peers govern their interests.

The parents might, and I say might, develope an intrest; new or latent, in model railroading, then possibly attempt to drag their children into the hobby…but it seems not to be a trend, towards any major hobby, where modelling is involved.
I also noted that B’mann has done less than nothing towards developing the Canadian market…small that it is. They refuse to send their “Travelling dog and pony show” North of the border. Their distributors don’t seem interested in doing much if any promotion…this goes for all the other major manufacturers also.
I use B’mann as an example, because they have a presence in all major scales, and you would think they would be interested in any major regional TRAIN SHOW…but no…even when invited to a NEW and major show, forming up for this MAY in Ottawa…where it is a sold out show at this point, with a drawing area of all Eastern Ontario, Western Quebec, and Central New York State.

You would think that being in business, would dictate going out of your way to sell your products....heck; I've even heard of people in the US of A.....well known name brands....stating that they wouldn't be interested in attending a major show because....listen to this......"We don't need the business"......in this time of poor sales, and a dying hobby....they don't need the business....egadszooks.....what am I missing here ?

…and just for B’mann’s information…Costco Canada, has a seperate buying office, from Costco USA…it happens to be here in Ottawa, Ontario, The Dominion of Canada…just up the road from me…
…ever think that they might sell a bit of product through them, just like they have in the USofA ?
The same goes for Home Despot…then there is Rona…both have major Garden Centres, here in Canada, with Lowes moving in fast…all with buying offices in CANADA (Nationly)

....rant over....
#22

…oh yes…I forgot to point out…in the Big Box stores of today, there is no real service for retail customers…so any hobby equipment is never marketed in a way that would promote any hobby…especially for newbys…garden centres are much the same…too bad…I remember being hired as a young fellow, to promote and look after the Dink Toy/Mecano/train department in one of the old full service Hardware stores; as a holiday/summer job…oh what an experience…

#23

Art Knapp’s is a family owned and run business, in British Columbia…also the only official Distributor in Canada for Aristocraft Trains…they make a profit as the distributor, and also as a dealer…(They may also act as a distribtor for other lines)

#24

Art Knapp’s distribution arm is Canada G-scale. They handle all major LS brands. So most Canadian LHS’s buy from them and not direct from the Manufacturers. An added middle man with one more mark-up. IMHO.

#25

…added note…even though the Canadian Dollar is just about par with the ruling US Dollar…we in Canada get hit with much higher prices charged, even before any taxes being added…all of us ask WHY…an automobile, built in Canada, has a higher base price in Canada, than in the USofA…not just by a few $100, but by thousands…go figure…we even are a major supplier of crude oil and natural gas to the USofA…who pays more for Gasoline…or NG…you guesed it…you are fast learners !!!

#26

Very good luck and much success to you, Shawn!
Oh, and a very good rant from you, too, Friar!
Can $ above par the last few days, BTW…
I remember the good old Diefenbaker days when it was $1.08

I get the impression that a lot of us would like to see Large Scale stuff in more stores.
It’d give us guys somewhere predictable to get lost in while she’s looking endlessly through the panty hose…

#27
Fred Mills said:
.....added note.....even though the Canadian Dollar is just about par with the ruling US Dollar.....we in Canada get hit with much higher prices charged, even before any taxes being added.....all of us ask WHY.......an automobile, built in Canada, has a higher base price in Canada, than in the USofA........not just by a few $100, but by thousands....go figure......we even are a major supplier of crude oil and natural gas to the USofA....who pays more for Gasoline....or NG....you guesed it....you are fast learners !!!
And that, Padre, is precisely the reason I buy overseas and in the US. The only time AK has now more or less comparable prices is at shows (show specials). I can pay the shipping and the HST on an order out of Germany and the US, it will still be less expensive than have AK, or some other Canadian LS dealer, order it and then charge me the HST on the full bore including the shipping. Discount because there was no "on the shelf" time? Forget it! An actual special order? Forget it, it gets added to the next order from whichever source! Consequently, find the best price from a [b]reliable source[/b], determine the total landed cost and then decide.

PS and one more snarky comment on those track plans: is it possible that someone at Kalmbach looks at the track plans in GR, decides they are far from inspiring and looks at alternatives? Would/could that be possible? :smiley: :wink:

#28
John Le Forestier said:
Very good luck and much success to you, Shawn! Oh, and a very good rant from you, too, Friar! Can $ above par the last few days, BTW.... I remember the good old Diefenbaker days when it was $1.08

I get the impression that a lot of us would like to see Large Scale stuff in more stores.
It’d give us guys somewhere predictable to get lost in while she’s looking endlessly through the panty hose…


Not my water garcen center. Just someone I know who lives by me.

#29

Why all this supposed bashing of GR and kalmbach on the forums lately?? In my opinion they like everyone else are trying to survive this economy. I see nothing wrong with GR promoting N and HO scale trains via track plan book. I have about a dozen of the the Kalmbach books like industries along hte tracks, bridges and trestles etc… and most of the plans and pictures in those books are of HO trains. These books like the track plan book are to be used for reference no matter the scale. Everyones layouts are different especially if you go outside often there are trees, roots and rocks that need to be worked around so many diagrams that would be neat on a 4x8 table won’t work without modifying. While building my largescale layout I referenced a book that I bought in the 1980’s called the ABC’s of model RRing. Unfortunantly many HO guys don’t have the room or the money to get into large scale. They know it exists but… Maybe there should be ads in model RRer for the big trains?
As for stores like HD and garden centers carrying larges scale stuff I don’t think it would work due both to cost and space on the selling floor. A few years back I went into a local garden store and they had tried selling trains but failed. Trouble was the cost which is ALOT for the average family to get into the hobby. The store had LGB starter sets, some aristo items and USAT rolling stock. I bought a few small items that were on clearance. Trouble with G scale is it takes up so much room in a store and costs a bundle to order enough to get a good stock up. I have been to many hobby stores all over and sadly it is pretty rare that they have something in stock that I just have to have and when they do I need to justify paying the BIG retail price to get it. The internet strikes again. Why pay $400 when you can get the same item for $200 including shipping?
I think it would be a neat to see good quality starter sets at stores like HD and Lowes but I doubt it will ever happen.
Todd

#30

I was the OP in the rant about the Kalmbach DVD. In my opinion, Kalmbach advertising a plan book, or any other RR oriented item is not at all objectionable. Creating and selling hobby informational materials is the business Kalmbach is in, and they do a good job at that. If I don’t want to purchase the material, I can pass the advert along to a fellow modeler, or just use the advertising for fire starter.

My objection to the DVD was the fact that Kalmbach just sent it out totally unsolicited, with the demand that it either be paid for or returned in accord with their instructions. I don’t need Kalmbach to give me a job assignment.

They followed up with a dunning letter demanding that I either pay up or return it. Only by reading the fine print does one learn that you really don’t have to do anything whether you use the DVD or not. That is not my idea of good sales and marketing practice.

A much more acceptable way to advertise the DVD would be to send an advertisement, with perhaps an offer to discount the first DVD if one subscribes to the series, or perhaps a pay or return it offer. That would mean that only the folks who were interested would get it, the rest of us would not be given a work assignment by Kalmbach, and no dunning letters would be necessary. I also believe that would result in better margins for Kalmbach since they would only send DVDs to people who actually them and were prepared to pay.

As to those of you who don’t see the need for trackplan book, good for you. I still have my 1970s copy of 101 Trackplans. I have built (with serious modifications) at least two (H0) railroads based on the trackplans in that book, still look at it for inspiration, and have just loaned it to a neighbor to help him start his first H0 layout.

My outdoor layout design is based on my years of model RRing experience, my particular interests, the available space, and my site’s geography. No track plan directly used, but I still study and apply information from the widest variety of resources, including printed trackplans in the magazines and books I have access to.

Happy (Well Planned) RRing,

Jerry

#31
Jerry Bowers said:
...My outdoor layout design is based on my years of model RRing experience, my particular interests, the available space, and my site's geography. No track plan directly used, but I still study and apply information from the widest variety of resources, including printed trackplans in the magazines and books I have access to....
My method too, Jerry.
#32

Fred’s analysis (above, page 2) is thoughtful – and revealing, per:

“I discovered that most of the Garden Centres are stocked by buyers at the chain’s head offices, and the local people had little to say about seasonal purchasing.”
AND…

“With this knowledge; I approached B’mann, who I had a good connection with at the time. I suggested that they send sales persons to the head offices, and meet the buyers of the chains. They politely told me that the buyers could find them at the toy fair in New York…end of story. (It seems that the day of the SALES PERSON, calling on customers, in order to sell a product, is long gone,pity)”

MY COMMENT:
How, in anyone’s right mind, would Bachmann presume gardening marketeers would even think of going to a New York toy fair if they had NO idea of the product and its use in gardening? Bachmann’s response to Fred takes refuge in doing nothing by suggesting the gardening world has already considered and rejected interest. Therefore, no interest in making contact with ANY gardening corp… Gee, whiz, try Scotts products for a start. An ad in a major gardening mag. would catch attention showing both product, garden train, and an blast of flower colors attributed to Scotts soil products. A garden train shown in a garden magazine! What a unique idea! Who could ever think of putting the two together!

We know who has not.

Thanks Fred for your on-topic analysis and insightful report.

HELLO Bachman! Aristo! USA! How about a response?

INCREDIBLE.

#33

How about a spec article to Sunset mag?

#34

Once a year MR publishes “Model Railroad Planning”, first one was 1995. I’ve been buying it since that first issue. Why? Because it is interesting to read why and how people plan stuff. It isn’t the specific track plans that provide the “aha” moments, it’s the thinking and reasoning that lead to the specific solutions.
Oh BTW have a happy “slap down the track” week anyway, eh! :wink: :slight_smile:

#35
Steve Featherkile said:
How about a spec article to Sunset mag?
I'm guessing, Steve, that what you have in mind is an illustrated article about railways in the Garden - I don't know Sunset magazine; sounds to me as if it may be a California thing (?) - Where I live is pretty much the fringe of civilization; mostly we get snow up here. :>)

In order to write for a mag, a person is better off to:

a) be familiar with it (Which gives me an excuse! vbg )
b) be aware of the proportion of magazine content that comes from in-house writers as opposed to outside freelancers.
c) send in an enquiry letter, proposal, or, to be blunt about it, a sales pitch, to the editor.
d) and don’t rite nuttin’ fer free.

For example, I have been suspecting for several years now that an ever increasing proportion of the contents of Model Railroader is produced in-house. I haven’t inquired about this, tho’; it has just appeared that way to me. Check the contents page for the names of authors and see what you think, compared to, say, the sixties and early seventies. And for a fact they’re paying less than they used to. If an editorial policy thins the ranks of contributors, it reduces the creative input many fold. I kinda’ lost interest in that mag after scratchbuilding took a nosedive and diseasles (yuk) began to take precedence there, 'round 1974-5… and other choices became available. ;>)

Even little kids know trains are supposed to go choo choo, not grrrrrrrrrrr .

#36

I used Sunset Magazine, as an example, primarily because that is the magazine that I am the most familiar with. It is not limited to California, but it does market primarily to the left coast of the US and Canada, though I have seen it on the shelves in Beaufort, South Carolina and Portsmouth, Virginia.

I don’t know of any nation wide of North America wide garden magazine. I suspect that Sunset has the widest distribution, or at least as wide as any.

You writers out there pick your poison and get busy, and don’t write for free. Don’t forget to include lots of photos, and don’t use the most expensive stuff. Bug Maulers are probably the locomotives of choice for this kind of article. Aim for somewhere between cute and cool.

It’s like chicken soup, it couldn’t hoit. :lol:

#37

Steve’s encouragement to contribute to a garden magazine - yes, Sunset is a good choice - a photo story makes a lot of sense. Meanwhile, I would enjoy reading ANY response by ANY of the large scale manufacturers as to why they have not made an effort to cultivate the garden magazine culture. At least if they have, there has been no physical evidence of it happening. Read Fred’s report (above) on his interaction with Bachmann for a snap shot of their interest. Garden Railways could take one of their photo stories and modify it for a good read and visual effect in Sunset or another garden magazine. Then, (horrors!) encourage one of our advertisers to run an ad in the same issue. An ad? Yes, a photo showing a family and their garden train in the garden-- amazing. Lemmme see…ah, yes! LGB in their earlier years under a different administration, ran such ads.

Good idea, Steve. Now, let’s also see if Garden Railways reads this site.

Wendell