Large Scale Central

Joe the Plumber

General Discussion
#1

…the truth hurts…

Americans understand that redistributing income among citizens impedes income growth and job creation. The same “Joe the Plumber” who questioned Obama in Toledo on Sunday, and was mentioned again in last night’s debate, told The New York Times:
[Obama’s] answer actually scared me even more. He said he wants to distribute wealth. And I mean, I’m not trying to make statements here, but, I mean, that’s kind of a socialist viewpoint. You know, I work for that. You know, it’s my discretion who I want to give my money to; it’s not for the government decide that I make a little too much and so I need to share it with other people. That’s not the American Dream.
For all the talk from liberals about how the recent financial crisis proves that capitalism is dead, Joe the Plumber proves just how wrong they are. Americans still believe in the American Dream and they instinctively understand that lower taxes enable the economic growth that makes that dream a reality.

http://townhall.com/columnists/MichelleMalkin/2008/10/17/the_left_declares_war_on_joe_the_plumber

http://townhall.com/columnists/LorieByrd/2008/10/17/the_obama_thugocracy_goes_after_joe_the_plumber

#2

I heard tonight on our nightly news that Joe the plumber is not actually a registered plumber and his last known affiliation in politics was as a registered Republican voter.

#3
TonyWalsham said:
I heard tonight on our nightly news that Joe the plumber is not actually a registered plumber and his last known affiliation in politics was as a registered Republican voter.
Tony, who cares?

He’s a “residential plumber”…not a “commercial” plumber. Residential plumbers don’t need a registration, besides, that wasn’t the point. The point was he’s gets it.

"If Sen. Obama’s plan becomes reality, it could well turn into an economic nightmare by punishing the most productive in order to reward the least productive in our society. Spreading the wealth doesn’t sound all that different from Karl Marx’s famous dictum: From each according to his ability to each according to his need. "

You gotta find yourself a better news outlet…

Welcome to Joe the Plumber Derangement Syndrome. If you can’t beat him, smear him.

#4

Who is saying “capitalism is dead?” Absolutely no one. Has Obama said anything to that effect? No.

Joe doesn’t get it: he would get a tax cut under Obama’s plan. “According to some tax analysts, if Mr. Wurzelbacher’s gross receipts from his business is $250,000 — and not his taxable income — then he would not have to pay higher taxes under Mr. Obama’s plan, and probably would be eligible for a tax cut.”

Joe the unlicensed plumber has some vague plans to someday buy the business he works for. Obama’s tax cut plan would make it easier for him to buy that business. The idea that he would give this dream up because if he did, he might have to pay more in taxes seems like a justification for failure

I mean, I get raises now and then, and those raises have moved me into brackets where I pay more taxes. I have never yet turned down a raise for that reason. “Yes, I would have become a millionare, but it would mean I’d pay 1000 more a year in taxes.” Please! So Joe is really claiming that he won’t ever try to buy his boss’s business, because if he did, he wold have to pay higher taxes than he would if he didn’t? Even though he’d be making ALL the profit from the business, instead of being an employee?

#5

Mike, he gets it, that’s the point, just like the rest of us “Joe the Plumbers”.

“From each according to his ability to each according to his need” is what this is all about.

In response to Wurzelbacher’s question about why he should be “taxed more and more for fulfilling the American dream,” Obama sermonized that he needed to “spread the wealth around” because “it’s good for everybody.”

Mike, if you wanna spread your wealth around, help yourself…Joe the Plumber would like to keep his…

#6

And under Obama’s tax plan, he does! He keeps more of his money than he does currently!

But he keeps a little bit less of his hypothetical money, the money he does not actually have but might someday have if he manages to save enough to buy his boss’ bsusiness, which Obama’s tax cuts would help him do.

yep, makes sense to me

#7

That’s what makes sense to him…the part where is he would have to give his money to people who haven’t earned it!!

#8

Ok, so your argument is no one should ever have to pay taxes, ever?

meanwhile Joe drives on roads my taxes pay for, and plumbs a water system my taxes paid for, and uses an electrical infrastructure paid for by taxes, and here we are on the internet, developed as a project of the defense industry, yes, taxes…

I’m perfectly happy to spread my wealth around if it creates an infrastructure that lets me create more wealth. For example, please tax me so we can get better solutions the the DC area’s choking traffic problems. Please. Charge me $500 a more a year in taxes. The increased productivity and quality of life gains that would result from me not having to sit in traffic would be more than worth it. I’d make more money–I’d more than make that $500 back. And I’d be happier and less tense. So please, VA legislature, I’m asking you to tax me

The terrifying prospect that we’re facing here is that if this guy, Joe, does manage to start earning more than 98.5% of the American population, then Obama might reduce his after-tax income by 1.5-1.7% Oh my god! Socialism!

#9

Doesn’t anyone get the fact that if the Bush Tax Cuts are just allowed to expire that our taxes are going to jump like crazy? Obama thinks that by stating he is not raising personal income tax or that he will even cut those style of taxes that we are so dumb that we wont notice all the other taxes we pay going through the roof. Socialism is bad for everyone in a capitalistic society.

#10

Ken.
Please help me understand this.
Are you saying there are different types of plumbers some of which have to be licensed and some who do not?

Are you also saying that as a “residential” plumber he is not required to be licensed when working at the residence of a home owner?

I think I also get it.
Not licensed, at one stage a registered Republican. Would like to denigrate Obama?

#11

No Mike, my argument is not that every one shouldn’t pay taxes. Mine…and Joe’s, BTW…is we don’t like like 'Robin Hood Economics"…stealing from the haves to give to the have-nots…the "“From each according to his ability to each according to his needs” philosophy…which, I can see, you so plainly missed.

#12
Ric Golding said:
Doesn't anyone get the fact that if the Bush Tax Cuts are just allowed to expire that our taxes are going to jump like crazy? Obama thinks that by stating he is not raising personal income tax or that he will even cut those style of taxes that we are so dumb that we wont notice all the other taxes we pay going through the roof. Socialism is bad for everyone in a capitalistic society.
Ric, no, they would not. Under Obama's plan most people would get a cut in their taxes. Bush cut taxes across the board, but he cut tax rates for the wealthiest people much more deeply. Obama's proposal lets those cts expire, but keeps or actually adds to cuts for most Americans

So unless you are making more than $200, 00 a year, Obama’s plan would–let me say this as simply as I can–cut your taxes.

If you are making more than $200, 000 a year, Obama’s plan would raise your taxes

Please note–I’m not even endorsing the plan. Just stating the facts

#13

I don’t make near $200,000.00 a year and I will be extremely surprized to see my taxes go down. It has never happened in my 60 years. It may be that some time in my life I have seen them not rise as quickly as other times, but they have never gone down. As this Country grows closer to a socialistic society, we pay more. We are gouged by taxes with everything we buy or do.

#14
Ken Brunt said:
No Mike, my argument is not that every one shouldn't pay taxes. Mine...........and Joe's, BTW.....is we don't like like 'Robin Hood Economics"..................stealing from the haves to give to the have-nots..........the ""From each according to his ability to each according to his needs" philosophy.........which, I can see, you so plainly missed.
Ok, "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." Sounds good. Lets' work with it

On one hand, Bill Gates, has billions of dollars. Food, rent, clothing, the necessities are a tiny percentage of his monthly income. His needs are few. Taxing him at a high rate definitely takes his money, but he needs little–his ability to afford it is great.

On the other, let’s imagine, say, a guy named Joe. From a poor family. Food, clothing, shelter takes so much of his family’s monthly income that he has no savings. But he has a lot of abilities–he’s good at math and likes computer programming. Family can’t afford college though, so he cant’ develop those skills. His needs are many, his abilities are few but potential.

Obama’s proposal is to tax Joe, who has little ability to afford the necessities of life, much less heavily than Bill Gates, who can easily afford the necessities of life, so that Joe can afford college, study computing, and then Joe can become a programmer and go to work for Bill Gates, thereby making Bill Gates and Joe richer.

#15
TonyWalsham said:
Ken. Please help me understand this. Are you saying there are different types of plumbers some of which have to be licensed and some who do not?

Are you also saying that as a “residential” plumber he is not required to be licensed when working at the residence of a home owner?

I think I also get it.
Not licensed, at one stage a registered Republican. Would like to denigrate Obama?


Let’s attack the poor plumber then, he only asked a simple question.
Guy wants to buy a business worth such and such amount. Asking a candidate about his tax plan, the candidate states he “wants to spread the wealth around”. I guess ol’ Joe just mis-understood how socialism works.

And yes, a plumber who does work in commercial buildings needs commercial certification to do so. You don’t need that certification to work in residential areas. There are all kinds of plumbers, some who do really big work are called 'Pipe-fitters"…as if this has anything to do with anything. He’s a workin stiff like the rest of us…

#16

So Ken.
I can understand that there would be different types of licensed plumbers for different jobs.
However I find it hard to believe that NO form of license at all is necessary to work on the plumbing of a residence in the USA?

I am not attacking anyone. I would find his question had more credibility if he was actually a licensed plumber and was not seemingly politically motivated.

#17
mike omalley said:
Ken Brunt said:
No Mike, my argument is not that every one shouldn't pay taxes. Mine...........and Joe's, BTW.....is we don't like like 'Robin Hood Economics"..................stealing from the haves to give to the have-nots..........the ""From each according to his ability to each according to his needs" philosophy.........which, I can see, you so plainly missed.
Ok, "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." Sounds good. Lets' work with it

On one hand, Bill Gates, has billions of dollars. Food, rent, clothing, the necessities are a tiny percentage of his monthly income. His needs are few. Taxing him at a high rate definitely takes his money, but he needs little–his ability to afford it is great.

On the other, let’s imagine, say, a guy named Joe. From a poor family. Food, clothing, shelter takes so much of his family’s monthly income that he has no savings. But he has a lot of abilities–he’s good at math and likes computer programming. Family can’t afford college though, so he cant’ develop those skills. His needs are many, his abilities are few but potential.

Obama’s proposal is to tax Joe, who has little ability to afford the necessities of life, much less heavily than Bill Gates, who can easily afford the necessities of life, so that Joe can afford college, study computing, and then Joe can become a programmer and go to work for Bill Gates, thereby making Bill Gates and Joe richer.


Bill Gates also contributes a lot of his money to charity. Which helps a lot more people that some huge government bureaucracy would do…

Socialism is still socialism, no matter who or how much it pretends to help…

So let’s take it a step further shall we. Bill Gates also invests a lot of that money he makes in his own business and other businesses. So instead of making him invest his money in a government bureaucracy why don’t we let him keep a little more to invest in the economy and Microsoft. That way he can hire a hundred more Joes and other companies can do the same. Maybe Joe would appreciate a steady paycheck rather than handout. If Joe has those has those abilities he can do those companies a lot of good. That way a couple of millions Joes who didn’t have a job would get hired. That way Joe the Plumber wouldn’t be afraid to buy that business and put a few more “Joe the Plumbers” to work…

#18
TonyWalsham said:
So Ken. I can understand that there would be different types of licensed plumbers for different jobs. However I find it hard to believe that [b]NO[/b] form of license at all is necessary to work on the plumbing of a residence in the USA?

I am not attacking anyone. I would find his question had more credibility if he was actually a licensed plumber and was not seemingly politically motivated.


The guy says he wanted to buy a plumbing business. You’ll have to ask him about his credentials… as for politically motivated…“The local plumbers union, which has endorsed Obama, claimed he didn’t do their required apprenticeship work and didn’t have a license to work outside his local township.” Evidently he has a license from the township he works in.

Tony, he asked a question all of wanted to ask…we got the answer.

#19

Tony,
Licenses are required for plumbers, electricians, etc in the State of Washington.
And, permits are required, (although not usually obtained), so the state can inspect his/her work.
It’s a very tuff law to enforce.
It’s more of a “buyer beware” situation, due to the bunch of crappy contractors we have.

#20

I really can’t see how any rational person can equate different tax rates for different income levels as socialism.
Now giving banks $700 billion…socialism
lending banks money at 2% so the banks can lend it to us at 6%-33%…socialism or welfare for the wealthy.
No reason for banks to pay us a decent rate on deposits when they have Uncle Sam for a sugar daddy.
Ralph