Me neither Ralph. Progressive taxation could in fact be described as an example of the adage “from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.”
I pay much more in taxes now than I did twenty years ago, and have no problem with that: I make much more now than I did twenty years ago. I’ve worked very hard, but I’ve also been the beneficiary of tax funded institutions and infrastructure.
Ralph Berg said:I have to agree about the banks Ralph. Rewarding people for their failure doesn't sit right, anymore than punishing successful people to pay for those failures.
I really can't see how any rational person can equate different tax rates for different income levels as socialism. Now giving banks $700 billion......socialism lending banks money at 2% so the banks can lend it to us at 6%-33%............socialism or welfare for the wealthy. No reason for banks to pay us a decent rate on deposits when they have Uncle Sam for a sugar daddy. Ralph
Originally, Congress didn’t put a cap on income tax because they could not conceive of taxing anyone more than 1% of their income. (I heard 13% last year, so take your pick. At any rate, it was much lower than the tax rates we put up with now.) My, how times change.
I really like the idea of a “Fair Tax,” where everybody pays X% on consumption, rather than on income. That way, everyone pays the same tax, whether it be 10% on consumption or 15% or whatever. But, we will never see it, because that will take away from Congress their greatest source of POWER, writing the tax laws for their buddies.
Small businesses that earn over $250,000 do not pay any taxes. In fact, small businesses do not pay any taxes, no matter how much they take in. We pay those taxes for them. All they do is collect them. You all are familiar with the sales tax, I assume. That tax is levied on the business, for each sale. Who do you think pays that tax? You and I do.
Who do you think pays corporate taxes? We do, in the form of higher prices. According to folks I trust, we have the second highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world. No wonder businesses are moving offshore. They are moving somewhere the taxrate is lower so they can sell their product at a more competitive price.
I don’t understand why some folks just can’t seem to understand that.
Joe wants to purchase a plumbing company that today nets $280,000 per year, and he wanted to know why the possible next President of the United States wanted to raise his taxes.
"We at Americans for Tax Reform ran the numbers. According to our calculations (and there are always assumptions involved when you’re translating campaign rhetoric into 1040 reality), Joe the Plummer will face a net tax hike of about $4,000 per year. This is $4,000 that Joe won’t have to hire an apprentice, purchase new plumbing equipment, or save for his retirement.
How do his taxes get hiked? First and most significantly, Obama has said repeatedly that he will strip away the Bush tax cuts from any household making more than $250,000 per year.
Secondly, Obama has said he would raise the self-employment tax (which pays for Social Security and Medicare) for those making more than $250,000. Because he has been very non-committal on details, ATR assumes that the full 15.3 percent self-employment tax rate will apply to Joe’s marginal income.
The results are staggering for Joe: his overall tax bill goes up by about $4,000 per year. But Joe’s not alone. According to the IRS, there are about 28 million small business owners in the United States. Nearly 3 million of them earn at least $200,000 per year. These are the businesses that Obama is targeting with his tax hike. "
And with that money he plans to hand a check to 28 million Americans who don’t pay taxes.
The point is that Joe the Plumber and others like him are the beating heart of the U.S. economy. If you tell these entrepreneurs that the government is going to take 50 percent of everything they make after a certain amount of income, they’re going to stop working. Joe the Plumber might not make as many house calls. He might not bother hiring that extra assistant plumber. Why should he? He can stay home, watch the Ohio State Buckeyes on TV, and not have to give half his enjoyment to anyone, least of all the government.
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.” – Unknown
Steve Featherkile said:
Originally, Congress didn't put a cap on income tax because they could not conceive of taxing anyone more than 1% of their income. (I heard 13% last year, so take your pick. At any rate, it was much lower than the tax rates we put up with now.) My, how times change.I really like the idea of a “Fair Tax,” where everybody pays X% on consumption, rather than on income. That way, everyone pays the same tax, whether it be 10% on consumption or 15% or whatever. But, we will never see it, because that will take away from Congress their greatest source of POWER, writing the tax laws for their buddies.
Small businesses that earn over $250,000 do not pay any taxes. In fact, small businesses do not pay any taxes, no matter how much they take in. We pay those taxes for them. All they do is collect them. You all are familiar with the sales tax, I assume. That tax is levied on the business, for each sale. Who do you think pays that tax? You and I do.
Who do you think pays corporate taxes? We do, in the form of higher prices. According to folks I trust, we have the second highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world. No wonder businesses are moving offshore. They are moving somewhere the taxrate is lower so they can sell their product at a more competitive price.
I don’t understand why some folks just can’t seem to understand that.
Steve Featherkile said:
Originally, Congress didn't put a cap on income tax because they could not conceive of taxing anyone more than 1% of their income. (I heard 13% last year, so take your pick. At any rate, it was much lower than the tax rates we put up with now.) My, how times change.I really like the idea of a “Fair Tax,” where everybody pays X% on consumption, rather than on income. That way, everyone pays the same tax, whether it be 10% on consumption or 15% or whatever. But, we will never see it, because that will take away from Congress their greatest source of POWER, writing the tax laws for their buddies.
Small businesses that earn over $250,000 do not pay any taxes. In fact, small businesses do not pay any taxes, no matter how much they take in. We pay those taxes for them. All they do is collect them. You all are familiar with the sales tax, I assume. That tax is levied on the business, for each sale. Who do you think pays that tax? You and I do.
Who do you think pays corporate taxes? We do, in the form of higher prices. According to folks I trust, we have the second highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world. No wonder businesses are moving offshore. They are moving somewhere the taxrate is lower so they can sell their product at a more competitive price.
I don’t understand why some folks just can’t seem to understand that.
And then there’s the world’s largest retailer Wal-Mart.
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:Walmart used to be a great business. Doing their best to "Buy American". Then Sam Walton died and everything changed. Greed reigns supreme at WalMart now. I personally do not spend a nickle at WalMart anymore. Ralph
And then there's the world's largest retailer [url=http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/bustech/story.html?id=2ac2e60c-5541-48c3-850d-87716cb1b4c2]Wal-Mart[/url].
Ralph Berg said:Steve Featherkile said:
Originally, Congress didn't put a cap on income tax because they could not conceive of taxing anyone more than 1% of their income. (I heard 13% last year, so take your pick. At any rate, it was much lower than the tax rates we put up with now.) My, how times change.I really like the idea of a “Fair Tax,” where everybody pays X% on consumption, rather than on income. That way, everyone pays the same tax, whether it be 10% on consumption or 15% or whatever. But, we will never see it, because that will take away from Congress their greatest source of POWER, writing the tax laws for their buddies.
Small businesses that earn over $250,000 do not pay any taxes. In fact, small businesses do not pay any taxes, no matter how much they take in. We pay those taxes for them. All they do is collect them. You all are familiar with the sales tax, I assume. That tax is levied on the business, for each sale. Who do you think pays that tax? You and I do.
Who do you think pays corporate taxes? We do, in the form of higher prices. According to folks I trust, we have the second highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world. No wonder businesses are moving offshore. They are moving somewhere the taxrate is lower so they can sell their product at a more competitive price.
I don’t understand why some folks just can’t seem to understand that.
A consumption tax is a burden to the working class, most who have to spend every dime just to live. The rich spend a very small percentage of their income. I’m not rich Steve. Maybe you are.
Ralph
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:Steve Featherkile said:
Originally, Congress didn't put a cap on income tax because they could not conceive of taxing anyone more than 1% of their income. (I heard 13% last year, so take your pick. At any rate, it was much lower than the tax rates we put up with now.) My, how times change.I really like the idea of a “Fair Tax,” where everybody pays X% on consumption, rather than on income. That way, everyone pays the same tax, whether it be 10% on consumption or 15% or whatever. But, we will never see it, because that will take away from Congress their greatest source of POWER, writing the tax laws for their buddies.
Small businesses that earn over $250,000 do not pay any taxes. In fact, small businesses do not pay any taxes, no matter how much they take in. We pay those taxes for them. All they do is collect them. You all are familiar with the sales tax, I assume. That tax is levied on the business, for each sale. Who do you think pays that tax? You and I do.
Who do you think pays corporate taxes? We do, in the form of higher prices. According to folks I trust, we have the second highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world. No wonder businesses are moving offshore. They are moving somewhere the taxrate is lower so they can sell their product at a more competitive price.
I don’t understand why some folks just can’t seem to understand that.
Yes Steve,And then there’s the world’s largest retailer Wal-Mart.
Steve Featherkile said:Ralph Berg said:Steve Featherkile said:
Originally, Congress didn't put a cap on income tax because they could not conceive of taxing anyone more than 1% of their income. (I heard 13% last year, so take your pick. At any rate, it was much lower than the tax rates we put up with now.) My, how times change.I really like the idea of a “Fair Tax,” where everybody pays X% on consumption, rather than on income. That way, everyone pays the same tax, whether it be 10% on consumption or 15% or whatever. But, we will never see it, because that will take away from Congress their greatest source of POWER, writing the tax laws for their buddies.
Small businesses that earn over $250,000 do not pay any taxes. In fact, small businesses do not pay any taxes, no matter how much they take in. We pay those taxes for them. All they do is collect them. You all are familiar with the sales tax, I assume. That tax is levied on the business, for each sale. Who do you think pays that tax? You and I do.
Who do you think pays corporate taxes? We do, in the form of higher prices. According to folks I trust, we have the second highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world. No wonder businesses are moving offshore. They are moving somewhere the taxrate is lower so they can sell their product at a more competitive price.
I don’t understand why some folks just can’t seem to understand that.
A consumption tax is a burden to the working class, most who have to spend every dime just to live. The rich spend a very small percentage of their income. I’m not rich Steve. Maybe you are.
Ralph
And your point is???
Ralph,
You said - "I was taught from an early age to share with those people less fortunate than myself. I’m sure you were probably taught the same. When did this change to “what ever is best for me and the hell with anybody else?”
I was also taught to share, but I was also taught to not trust strangers and that there are always scam artists behind all the bright lights at the carnival that will always look for every chance to take your money. This is the best place in the World to be poor and one of the only places where you can work yourself out of that poverty. It is the middle class that gets screwed from both ends and needs to fight back against both sides.
Guilt trips are just that, guilt trips.
Ric Golding said:
Ralph,You said - "I was taught from an early age to share with those people less fortunate than myself. I’m sure you were probably taught the same. When did this change to “what ever is best for me and the hell with anybody else?”
I was also taught to share, but I was also taught to not trust strangers and that there are always scam artists behind all the bright lights at the carnival that will always look for every chance to take your money. This is the best place in the World to be poor and one of the only places where you can work yourself out of that poverty. It is the middle class that gets screwed from both ends and needs to fight back against both sides.
Guilt trips are just that, guilt trips.
I don’t think anyone disagrees with a fair progressive tax on personal income. I think the disagreement comes in to play when you talk about how that tax money is spent by the Government. Spending it to protect our country from outside invaders is OK. Spending it to regulate how the country is run by making sure everyone is treated fairly in their daily lives is OK. Spending it to help people overcome extreme hardships in their lives until they can recover is OK. Spending it to promote and favor a specific group of people or companies is NOT OK. Spending it to indefinetely sustain people in a minimal lifestyle is NOT OK. The government does not create jobs except when they keep hiring staff to support the ever growing government buracracy. Socialism does not work. Democracy works better than any other type of government we have seen on this planet. We keep arguing about who is getting a tax break and who is getting hit with more taxes when the real issue is are we going down the slippery slope of Socialism or not.
John
John Spehar said:
I don't think anyone disagrees with a fair progressive tax on personal income. I think the disagreement comes in to play when you talk about how that tax money is spent by the Government. Spending it to protect our country from outside invaders is OK. Spending it to regulate how the country is run by making sure everyone is treated fairly in their daily lives is OK. Spending it to help people overcome extreme hardships in their lives until they can recover is OK. Spending it to promote and favor a specific group of people or companies is NOT OK. Spending it to indefinetely sustain people in a minimal lifestyle is NOT OK. The government does not create jobs except when they keep hiring staff to support the ever growing government buracracy. Socialism does not work. Democracy works better than any other type of government we have seen on this planet. We keep arguing about who is getting a tax break and who is getting hit with more taxes when the real issue is are we going down the slippery slope of Socialism or not.John
Ralph Berg said:Ralph, what happened to the other $360,000? Did it just vanish? I'll bet that he spent it on something. [i] edit. Btw, your figures are a bit skewed. Someone making $400K is going to spend more to "live" than someone making $40K.[/i]
Steve, If you don't understand the point here, there is no help for you. If a person makes $40,000 a year and pays a 25% consumption tax(as was proposed a few years ago), spends it all to live, he will pay $10,000 in taxes, or 25% of his income. If a man makes $400,000, spends $40,000 to live, pays $10,000 in taxes, or 2.5% of his income. And you think this is fair? I was taught from an early age to share with those people less fortunate than myself. I'm sure you were probably taught the same. When did this change to "what ever is best for me and the hell with anybody else?" Ralph
And, I’ve never heard of a 25% figure. Where did you hear that?
Steve Featherkile said:Ralph Berg said:Ralph, what happened to the other $360,000? Did it just vanish? I'll bet that he spent it on something. [i] edit. Btw, your figures are a bit skewed. Someone making $400K is going to spend more to "live" than someone making $40K.[/i]
Steve, If you don't understand the point here, there is no help for you. If a person makes $40,000 a year and pays a 25% consumption tax(as was proposed a few years ago), spends it all to live, he will pay $10,000 in taxes, or 25% of his income. If a man makes $400,000, spends $40,000 to live, pays $10,000 in taxes, or 2.5% of his income. And you think this is fair? I was taught from an early age to share with those people less fortunate than myself. I'm sure you were probably taught the same. When did this change to "what ever is best for me and the hell with anybody else?" RalphAnd, I’ve never heard of a 25% figure. Where did you hear that?