Large Scale Central

Installing battery power and Controll system in Bachmann C-19?

Electronics Power and Sound
#1

Some of you may have seen my post a while back about buying a used F scale Bachmann C-19 or loco chassis, well I’m happy to report I managed to grab a whole one in good condition. Since then I’ve installed a Soundtraxx Tsunami2 TSU-4400 and done a few other things so far and it’s worked wonderfully. However, the world of battery power operations and RC control is somewhat of a mystery to me and while I’d like to get those set up for my C-19 I really don’t know where to start. What kind of batteries should I look into, What control system should I invest in, how do I make it work/coexist with the DCC decoder I’ve installed, etc. is what I’m mostly curious about at the moment.

Any info would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

#2

Hi Joe. Unfortunately, there is no “right” answer to your question. There are at least half a dozen good radio control systems on the market, each with their own advantages and disadvantages. It’s really a personal choice.

Choosing a battery is a little easier. Most folks go with Lithium Ion due to the size/weight advantage. If you are overly concerned about battery safety, Nickle Metal Hydride is also a good choice. The C-19 will run at a reasonable speed using 14.8 volt batteries. Depending on your operating style, a 4 cell 3 Ah pack might do, or for extended run-time a 6 Ah LiIon pack will fit in the tender.

I have written up my conversions of my C-19’s. #8 was done twice, and #345 once. I’ll try and find them and post links here.

#3

My first conversion kept the stock electronics and added a RailBoss and Phoenix sound board. Write up here: https://largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/26817/full-control-r-c-in-bachmann-c-19

Later on I removed all of the factory electronics in the tender and and wired direct to the tender plugs. That is documented on the second page of the thread linked above.

Recently, I retired my RailBoss system in favor of RailPro. My first RailPro install was in my second C-19 using another salvaged speaker enclosure. #345’s install is documented here: https://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/31109/rail-pro-install-in-bachmann-c-19

I was happy enough with the new RailPro system in 345 that I also re-did #8 again, upgrading it to RailPro. That conversion is near the end of the thread linked above. One of the things I like about RailPro is the simplicity. Everything is on one module.

EDITED to change the links to go to top of thread, not the post I found while searching.

#4

I studied several systems and eventfully went with the RailPro, glad I did, very limited space required for the install and the sound is great, correct speaker is needed here. There control system is very easy to operate and the setup on different engines was easily to figure out. I would say to watch videos on YouTube on the different systems available will help you to decide. I would recommend that you give RCS of New England a call and talk with Don Sweet, he will walk you through the whole system and will always answer you questions. I also looked a AirWire, but the cost per engine for installs was much higher them the RailPro system, an easy $150 more per engine and takes up more space on the install. The RailPro hand controller is so easy to use and you are mostly dealing with icons pictured and not numbers like DCC, good luck and there are plenty of video’s on YouTube to answer your questions.

There is a RailPro install, by Don Sweet, it’s in a diesel, but installs are all pretty much the same for the electronics, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFyuK7r7w-k

trainman

#5

The Airwire catalog I found shows products called “Convrtrs” that would work with a DCC Decoder like the one I have, But is there a Railpro equivalent to that? As far as I can tell Railpro is trying to be an all in 1 product, with their own DCC sound system.

#6

RailPro is a proprietary all-in-one system. A locomotive module contains a two-way radio; speed control, light/accessory control and sound system all in one fairly small package. It is DCC complaint only to the point that most functions can be controlled by a DCC system. Programming and/or full function control requires their Hand Controller which features a touch screen and a large throttle dial.

I’m not familiar with the Tsunami. Is it strictly a sound card, or is it also a DCC speed/light controller? If it is also a DCC speed control, then RailPro would probably not be your least expensive option as it would duplicate most of the functions of what you have…

RailPro can use an external sound systems should you so desire, but their sound is great and getting better all the time, so in my case, I got rid of all my sound cards which makes the installation very straight forward.

#7

John Lenheiser said:

I studied several systems and eventfully went with the RailPro, glad I did, very limited space required for the install and the sound is great, correct speaker is needed here. There control system is very easy to operate and the setup on different engines was easily to figure out. I would say to watch videos on YouTube on the different systems available will help you to decide. I would recommend that you give RCS of New England a call and talk with Don Sweet, he will walk you through the whole system and will always answer you questions. I also looked a AirWire, but the cost per engine for installs was much higher them the RailPro system, an easy $150 more per engine and takes up more space on the install. The RailPro hand controller is so easy to use and you are mostly dealing with icons pictured and not numbers like DCC, good luck and there are plenty of video’s on YouTube to answer your questions.

There is a RailPro install, by Don Sweet, it’s in a diesel, but installs are all pretty much the same for the electronics, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFyuK7r7w-k

trainman

IF you can, I find it best to talk with folks that have used the system you are interested in. A lot do NOT like to discuss the negatives on line, fearing they will be “attacked”. Sheesh. If there were ever a clear winner, we would ALL sing its praises. Plus, we all have our own personal preferences.

Having said all that, it seems like you found a winner for YOU! Excellent. (I echo your praises of Don - he seems to be interested in what YOU want!)

#8

Yeah the Tsunami2 is also DCC speed and light controller, has some pretty nice accessories to those I’d not be looking forward to losing if I treated the decoder as a sound card only.

#9

Should you decide to eliminate the factory electronics in the tender, I have documented the function of each wire that extends from plugs at the front of the tender. One column is where they connect on a RailPro install, but you should be able to use the PDF to determine where to connect various DCC functions as well.

C-19 Tender Pin Out PDF: https://lsc.cvsry.com/Post2020/C-19Tender_Plugs.pdf

#10

I understand not wanting to get rid of the electronic that you have and try to make use of them, let’s face it we all tied up good money in our trains and to just discard some of it is hard to do at times. Now for the practical side, I have a box full of old electronics that were all removed from loco’s and the new system installed, I did go with RailPro because it was the best for me and for all that RailPro offers, no need going on about it. I want all my loco’s running the same system, not a mix of systems, so spending the bucks was a choice I made and glad I did. I can tell you that spending your dollars on ways to make what you have work, may not be the best solution in the long run, you just end up with a larger box of used electronics.

trainman

#11

Alright, thanks for the info. I’ll be looking into railpro further, but now I’m more curious about batteries. I’m familiar with electronics to an extent but never really educated myself much about more heavy-duty hobby-related battery packs. Any preferred brand names, specific voltages/kinds of batteries, etc. I should be looking into? While I might be removing the factory board, it has two “battery terminals” labeled with 6v and 18v.

#12

Joe Weigman said:

Alright, thanks for the info. I’ll be looking into railpro further, but now I’m more curious about batteries. I’m familiar with electronics to an extent but never really educated myself much about more heavy-duty hobby-related battery packs. Any preferred brand names, specific voltages/kinds of batteries, etc. I should be looking into? While I might be removing the factory board, it has two “battery terminals” labeled with 6v and 18v.

As far as a name brand battery pack I have no idea as I use the ones sold by RCS of New England. There battery packs are constructed with top Lithium-ion batteries made by LG, Samsung, and other top battery manufactures. It it important that the correct charger be use with the correct batteries for both safety when recharging and for battery life. There are several horror stories out there when using inferior batteries and chargers, so buy from those who sell and service what they sell. My loco’s run these batteries sold here, https://rcsofne.com/

trainman

#13

I believe when I was talking with Don about those batteries, that he noted that they make those batteries for the military also.

But don’t quote me on that.

#14

What impressed me about the MTO batteries I’ve purchased from Don is their nearly bullet proof short circuit protection. I’ve purchased 4 packs from him so far. One is close to 4 years old now and all of them perform great. I previously was buying packs from Tenergy and over the course of 4 or 5 years I killed all of them :frowning:

#15

Our lithium ion batteries are assembled by MTO Battery of York, PA. Working exclusively with MTO has many benefits. We can shape the packs to fit inside most engines. Currently there are 51 different packs available. The cells used are chosen from the leading Manufacturers; Samsung, Panasonic, LG Chemical and Sony. MTO finds the best match for our trains and costs. Each pack requires the latest Battery Protection System or PCM. This is the circuit board included inside each pack. The lithium cell that is selected offers a smooth discharge rate to best match the current draw of our engines. This provides longer run-times rather than high discharge rate like a drill battery. MTO battery builds packs for the US Navy.

As others have stated, safety, reliability and value is what we try to offer.

Joe, inside all Bachmann locos with the “socket” have two sets of green screw terminals. Your primary battery is connected to the 18V terminal to power all the electronics. You do not use the 6V input.

Don

#16

Jon Radder said:

What impressed me about the MTO batteries I’ve purchased from Don is their nearly bullet proof short circuit protection. I’ve purchased 4 packs from him so far. One is close to 4 years old now and all of them perform great. I previously was buying packs from Tenergy and over the course of 4 or 5 years I killed all of them :frowning:

Yea, I have two Tenergy packs, both maybe 4 years old, and they’re dead-dead. Don’t take a charge, no voltage at all registering.

#17

Might as well post an update to this thread here. I asked around locally to what remains of our original Large Scalers Club here in Durango, everyone recommended Airwire C-60X and when the time came I decided to go that route instead, and I certainly don’t regret it. Two weeks ago I completed the installation and then made its first official run last Sunday. There is a very obvious Railpro bias here on this forum, and while there’s a possibility it could be superior I’m still sold on what I’ve got set up right now. If I ever run into someone running Railpro I’d love to compare and contrast it over Airwire+Tsunami2.

I would not want to trash the TSU-4400 board I bought specifically for this locomotive back last January. I could’ve maybe resold it but I personally liked the freedom it offered regarding customization and prototypically influenced features, from a sound perspective, lighting perspective, and motor control perspective while additionally supporting a business operated locally here in Durango.

There are 90 different whistles recorded from various prototypes around the country you can easily access just by adjusting a CV with little hassle on your own throttle. Under the same circumstances, you also get 12 different bells each with 4-5 different ring rates, 10 different kinds of exhaust chuffs available to select for what kind of locomotive you have to help make it sound more prototypically accurate, 10 different kinds of air pumps, 8 different kinds of dynamos, etc. It offers the ability to have all the lights on your engine on or off depending on if the dynamo is on, all fading in or out as the dynamo starts to wind up or slow down. Using what Soundtraxx calls dynamic digital exhaust, the Tsunami2 can instantly detect strain on the motor in your model and make the engine sound like it’s barking more with the exhaust chuffs, as if it were the prototype climbing up a grade or pulling a long string of cars. It also offers the ability to have prototypical braking, such as using the independent loco brake or you can have the airpumps charge a consist, and customize the braking speeds for each to your liking. The Tsunami2 also has a volume mixer, so you can customize how loud each of the different sounds are, plus there are a lot of other automatic sounds it makes on its own as if there were a fireman using the injectors, shoveling coal (or wood), oiling around when the engine is parked, and much more. And using the Airwire C-60x board allows me to utilize everything the Tsunami2 decoder has to offer as if it were on track power. Quite frankly something I’d say should be classed as the next level in this realm of the hobby. Would love to hear if Railpro can do all the things I just listed above.

My attempt to embed images here results in a green box or broken image icon so here are just some links to videos of my C-19 on its first runs last Sunday on my friend’s railroad after the installation. Was really satisfied with how it turned out and had a ball running it. Again would like to see how Railpro would sound compared to this.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OazRIzqS-9g0XtDjdSNYbZE2_kQwz-vI/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SjyWSJv5o1opAH9aThX7x7Bg-Hjv734g/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15b-a-28TI9idMb99yqEwQaEjMV0YqrU0/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s4cQydvEUU2OVTCYpahiT9HBRqwvp1Ib/view?usp=sharing

#18

That sounds great Joe. Glad you got it going. The sound system features you mention are awesome.

As far as RailPro bias here, if there is any it’s unintentional. The few of us using it are pretty vocal about it because it gets a pretty bad rap on a the small scale forums. We have lots of people using Airwire, some more using RailBoss, a bunch using Revo and the many other systems out there.

#19

Joe,

Nice. You’ve done what I have always suggested - talked to the folks who actually USE the system you’re considering. In the end, it really doesn’t matter if another system is “better” or not, it’s what YOU want.

Your videos look great and sound awesome. Congratulations!